Old school audio-my car

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

MY CAR

This was when I first did the stereo in my car.  Custom glassing has come a long way in 6 yrs,lol.  This car wasn't designed to be loud but rather, was a national SQ competitor on the IASCA circuit for Ma Audio.  However, adding 5k watts at 14v to a car with over 600 lbs of sound dampener in it ain't too quiet.  Now,...it's a 4 wheel tackle box but it still hits clean.

note- SQ or SOUNDQ refers to the "other" class of competition audio, "Sound Quality".  This class, there is no decibel rating.  The cars are judged on a 300 point scorecard based on things like tonal balance, imaging, staging, separation, etc.

With a SQ car, there is no "rear stage" (speakers in the back).  You are trying to duplicate a live performance and when you hear live music, it comes at you face first, not from behind you.  The 3 grills on the back dash are not speakers but vent holes for the trunk.  There is a boat bilge system blower in there that sucks fresh air in one side and pulls old air from other side so the rear seat can be left up and ready to use at all times (stealth install for security)

[tipptruck1]

Looks good russ. I would love to hear that some time. But I went out today looking at a alpine head unit jl componts and 6x9s for the car. But I also heard some boston 6.5 and liked them.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

Biggest rule, any experienced installer will swear this to his grave,...it's 10% which components you use and 90% installation.

JL and B/A though,..can't go wrong there.

[tipptruck1]

Yea I know that russ. I have to find a place for the tweeter. I think I might mount them on the a-piler. But I need to find out were the sdound the best. In the future I would like to run a jl 450/4 amp for the speakers. After that I would also like to get a 13in w7 and run a jl 1000/1 amp.

[cart7t]

Just for a point of referance. I installed car stereo's for about 1 1/2 years for a large midwest stereo dealer (out of business now) between 1979 and 1980. Here's a typical install back then that would be considered a fantastic system.

Head system

Either a Clarion, Alpine (new company) or Pioneer cassette deck

Yes, I said a cassette deck  ;D

A Fosgate 220 punch amplifier

Pioneer 6 1/2" 3 way door speakers and 6X9 rear deck speakers.

At the time Fosgate, pre Rockwell, had specs nearly as good as some of the home stereo amps we sold on the floor.  And this was back in the day of good stereo equipment.  The Fosgate was kicking 20 watts per channel but this is rated back in the days when amps were rated at true RMS and not the bogus ratings they use these days.  

You have no idea just how loud 1 watt of clean amplified sound is.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

Gen rule for highs.---For BEST sound, never move the tweet more than 6 inches from the mid.  "a" pillar mounts are ok but they generally tend to ruin the separation because of placement and angle.  If you can get it closer to the mid-bass, it will sound much better.  Also, NEVER bounce a tweet off glass (windshield)

I have an 8 mounted in the dash, hence the tweets in the defroster vents.  Imaging is perfect with these because of their angle.  Separation is limited.  (ps-separation is bad,lol)  If there were no 8 in the dash, this system would lose all integrity having the tweets so far from the mid-bass.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

Just for a point of referance. I installed car stereo's for about 1 1/2 years for a large midwest stereo dealer (out of business now) between 1979 and 1980. Here's a typical install back then that would be considered a fantastic system.

Head system

Either a Clarion, Alpine (new company) or Pioneer cassette deck

Yes, I said a cassette deck  ;D

A Fosgate 220 punch amplifier

Pioneer 6 1/2" 3 way door speakers and 6X9 rear deck speakers.

At the time Fosgate, pre Rockwell, had specs nearly as good as some of the home stereo amps we sold on the floor.  And this was back in the day of good stereo equipment.  The Fosgate was kicking 20 watts per channel but this is rated back in the days when amps were rated at true RMS and not the bogus ratings they use these days.  

You have no idea just how loud 1 watt of clean amplified sound is.

I remember those days well!!  Pioneer super tuner III days!!  lol

Very true, the rating these days are geared to get kids to purchase equipment.  They shop by "wattage" so when they see a 2000w amp for $150, how could they go wrong?  lol

Some of the most expensive amps out there, Brax, Arc audio etc, very rarely rate anything over 200-250 watts but you are talking about true RMS, not bogus advertising.  

Others can get away with it because there is no true equation to figure out wattage.  My mono block is rated at 5000w.  A  single j/l audio 1000 will crush that amp, power wise.  A 250w Brax will crush that amp.  Just an example.  You usually get what you pay for,...same goes for car audio.

[-badhabit-]

I've done some install and design. One build even made the cover of DUB a couple years ago (Anthony Carter's Hummer H2).

Our Astro Van does 167db (just a show van not comp.... 36 x 12" Crossfire BFL's w/12 kw of Crossfire amps and sponsored by Crossfire). If you have ever attended Spring Break Nationals you have seen it. Way too much to list here in this one( over $100k in mods).

My tow vehicle (Grand Cherokee) does 158 db (SPL/SQ vehicle DBdrag & IASCA). 2 - AudioMobile Mass 12's run by a RF 1100a2 amp (bridged 1300w), 1 - 15" GroundZero Nuclear (euro model & more SPL than 3 Mmats 15" Drednaught's) run by an EathQuake PHD2 Shredder (2kw). 4 - Orion HCCA 6s mids run by a RF 800a4 (1024w), 4 - 6" Waveguide horns run by a JBL GTQ400 (800w bridged), 4 -Audio Control EQT's, 1 - Audio Control 4xs, 240 amp Ohio Generator Alt., and a fleet of Optima Yellow tops (with 1 farad caps and Clifford alarm system + much more............).

Rock on..................................

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

Rock on is right, that must hit like Tyson.

I love the old gt-400 amps from JBL.  The 400 was only 400 if it was bridged but man, what an under-rated amp.

I've seen the crossfire van if it's the same one.  Was it at CES in '03 by any chance?  May have been '04, was in Vegas.

My car will hit 129-130 on the right day.  Loud enough but nothing to WOW about by any means.  Like I said, 6 yrs ago, the car was something but compared to what is going on these days,......it ain't chit,lol.

Got a question for you regarding the cap.  I have an Ohio Gen 200 amp alt, AND a 5 farad cap.(not point 5,....5 full farad)  Does that cap eventually lose it's charging retention?  I've had minimal light dim lately, never in 5 yrs was this an issue w/ that cap and alternator.

[-badhabit-]

That's the same van...... it was built in 02 and is at most big shows.

I listen to mostly sq like you and that's why I mixed in the 12's to listen to 99% of the time @ very low good sound.

I got into it by mistake really. I went to SBN (45 min away) just to look in 1998 and bought a $10 ticket that has ended up costing me $?????????????????????.00 :)

I saw the vehicles and just had to have one....................that's why the nic "badhabit". I take every hobby to extremes...........boy's and their toys .... :o

wanna buy a $10k pool cue? (just joking - it's not for sale)

[-badhabit-]

Got a question for you regarding the cap. I have an Ohio Gen 200 amp alt, AND a 5 farad cap.(not point 5,....5 full farad) Does that cap eventually lose it's charging retention? I've had minimal light dim lately, never in 5 yrs was this an issue w/ that cap and alternator.

Yes it will lose pwr holding capability after a while....it's just a bunch of lead plates. That's why I use the 1 farad caps..... cheap to replace a bad one. And unless you are driving the subs hard you should never really need one.

edit added: be very careful removing a cap even if you think it is bad.... they can hurt you quick and before you trash it stand back and throw it in 5 gal bucket of water so it doesn't hurt anyone else..

and most people don't realize how loud 130db is. Yours prob sound better than mine.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

what are the hazards of removing the cap?  I had it hooked up and removed 2 or 3 times during install and once to go back to MA Audio,...could I have killed myself??

Assuming I kill the circuit breaker at the batt first, is there an order to disconnect?  Won't be doing it anytime soon but good to know.

The car had a dimming issue with just the cap, no upgrade on the alt.  I wonder if the line driver causes it draw more (it's a 6v signal going INTO the driver as it is)??  Either way, the  alt fixed it for yrs.  Maybe one or both are getting weak.  (and now I go dig for the multimeter,lol)

[-badhabit-]

Sorry for the delay...(chasing gas for the boat )

You just have to be careful not to ground it out when removing it. I take and wrap electrical tape around each post as I remove the wires is all.

Try running it without the cap now that you have a good alt. and see how it does, you may be surprised.

Now off topic: What do you think of Airrus Rods?  I just bought a Spectra and Ultra XL. (both mh).

[fourbizz]

NICE LBH!!!

I'm looking for an amp that will run 400 @1ohm. Do you have any recomendations? Budget limited, I've got a fishing habit to keep up with!

[-badhabit-]

NICE LBH!!!

I'm looking for an amp that will run 400 @1ohm. Do you have any recomendations? Budget limited, I've got a fishing habit to keep up with!

I have heard a lot of claims from companies but never seen any amp run very stable or long @ 1 ohm. We call them toasters because of that.

What do you need a 1 ohm amp to run anyway? If it's multi subs you should just wire them to become 2 or 4 ohm. Then you can find a lot of cheap good quality amps on e-bay.

For good info on this subject or any car audio related subject try here: http://www.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php

[fourbizz]

my problem is I am running 3 10" memphis'. They are 4 ohm. So its actually 1.333333333 ohms I guess for the three.  I used to run 3 10" w0 12ohm so that made it easy to run a 4ohm amp. So its a one ohm amp or something that can run 500X3. If you guys who know a ton more than me think it is pointless, I will just build a new box and sell one of the subs. Thanks for any help.

Thanks Guys

Jay

P.S. LBH if this hijack is uncool, just delete it or move it, its all good.

[-badhabit-]

Just go over to that link I posted and they will tell you how to wire those 3 subs to 2 or 4 ohm. It's not hard to do.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

That forum board is phenomenal.   Just like BR but for car audio. They'll hook you up w/ a wiring diagram.

[squid]

OH MAAAAAAN.. >...lol....I was looking forward to seeing an 8 track installed...LMAO ;D ;D ;D

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

Taking the whole system out today.  Replacing with THIS.

Think it'll hit 130 still?

[MyKeyBe]

note- SQ or SOUNDQ refers to the "other" class of competition audio, "Sound Quality".

Said it before and I'll say it again. Your a tweaker LBH. I like it LOUD. "Old school". Six years ago could of been last week! hehe. Give me a made in 1984, mil-spec, USA made Orion HCCA 425 and a HCCA 250 and I will show you LOUD! 200 watt class LOUD! You wish your chromie chrome, bling bling, over rated MA audio junk would put out like my old sexy, dressed in red, Orions would. ;D

I'd even be willing to settle for an early 90's Hi-Fonics Zeus or a PPI over any of the junk made today.

By the way, I have 2 Visonik 12's and a Lanzar Vibrant 2000 watt amp (Remember when Lanzar was a good company?). Think it will knock?

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

I love the old orions too, I had a few of the hcca's as well.  My buddy had the zues.  (sidenote ragrding Orion.  I accidently dropped the 1guage while installing an hcca, landed on the terminal,...poof.  I explained truthfully what happened and a new one was sent.  THAT'S service, they had NO OBLIGATION to do that, it was user error.)

Ma Audio paid for the car, the audio and my travel expenses.  GREAT company to work with.  Granted the chrome bling is overdone and the amps are over-rated(wattage-wise) but believe me, it slams for a SQ car. Won quite a few comps as well.  Finished 4th at the nationals and did quite a bit to boost their sales. I purchased the car from them at the end of the season, $9,850.  Car was 17,500 new when I got it and toured it for 1 yr.  All audio stayed with the car (another 3k in value)

as for the "junk" made today,...time to start reading again,lol.  There are some serious pieces of equipment out there today.  Problem is, the market got flooded with crap so anything worth owning will cost an arm and a leg now.

thanks alot, legacy, pyle, boss, LANZAR!! etc  (I just passed up 2 new 500w lanzars,....$60 ea,...new.  Pure crap

I sat in a bmw x5 that was privately owned, a couple weeks ago.  It had a few of the old rockford BD series mono blocks pushing a single JL w7.  Holy crap is all I can say.  Very sweet, clean, loud sound. (all the components were rainbow, that'll help but....)

I want some new stuff now!!

PS-to all who don't know the industry.....the audio monkey is just as relentless as the baitmonkey,lol.

I found my next amp!!!  NOT!!!

[-badhabit-]

LBH - I made a cheap box w/ 6 - $25 6" speakers from rad shack and got them to hit 150 db in a Pathfinder on bet it couldn't be done.

All of the items in my Jeep are pre-2000 if you are calling that old school.....(da.. that makes me feel old, I guess @ 46 I'm ancient school )

(the jbl gtq400 & earthquake are mounted on the rear of the seats and not in these pics)

(note: those bat straps are red/white/blue....not rainbow )

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

Eclipse Ti's?

BD1000's?

Yummy.

I love the audiocontrol products too but couldn't afford the 2 yrs of schooling to learn how to set them up properly.lol

I DO love the line driver though, what a difference.

[-badhabit-]

Those are AudioMobile Mass 12"s (36 lbs each & the GroundZero Nuke is 65 lbs). The RF amps are older than the BD series...... they are an 1100a2 and 800a4.

Line drivers are a good add on & they don't take really any pwr at all to run.

You need to ride in my boat sometime, it prob does 120-125...........not bad for a bassboat, but not like the ski boat we did for Shaq. An ex Orlando Magic player is a part owner of the shop I do sound out of, so we do a lot of NBA & NFL players vehicles from accross the country.