Chances of US and Iranian conflict?

[justfishin]

After listening to all the rhetoric and speculations the last few months on Iran's involvement in Iraq, I kind of shrugged it all off as posturing from both sides. Now, I am not quite sure. I have a feeling that it is going to come done to just such a conflict, even though it might be another nose to nose threatening match and then everyone stands down. Do you feel it is a lot of push and shove or do you feel there is a possibility of a real conflict. If so, is it justifiable?

[BassChaser57]

This is probably not the forum for me to give a modern history lesson so I will keep it short. I have spent much of my last 10 years in the Middle East (I am in Istanbul Turkey now) so I have seen it all first hand and here is my opinion.

The Fundamentalist Islamist has a religious decree to kill Infidels which is anyone not a muslum. Iran has the desire to see the US and Israel disappear from the face of the Earth. Now they are very close to the means as they have had submarines for years and now the nuclear ability for a warhead is very near or they could buy one from N. Korea which is a 10 hour nonstop flight. They could take the nuke, put it on a missle, in the sub and then do what ever they wish. I did see on CNN the other day while watching some Senate hearings that the US Administration was prepared and expected to lose an American city in the next 5 years to terrorists. Yes I think we are headed for further confrontation. The Iranians will be glad to die for the cause so they have nothing to lose and everything to gain as they see death as a wonderful thing. It could very easily get UGLY. There will be very little happen until after the next U.S. election and the Democrats get in the White House, then tuck tail and run from Iraq. Then the Iranians will see we do not have any stamina to see hard problems through and will have won by default. It is a little bit like telling your child you are going to spank him and never following thru. It is quickly learned it is an idle threat.

We did nothing when they bombed the Marine Barracks in Beruit, we did nothing when they bombed 2 American Embassies in Africa, we did nothing when they killed U.S. Soldiers in the bombing of the ship U.S.S. Cole, or when N. Korea exploded the nuclear device. Now there is such a gulf of opinion about the Iraq war and it is on CNN every day around the world. The Iranians know they will stick to their desires and the U.S will quickly lose the desire for confrontation. We have not shown that we will stay the course and do the right thing even if it is painful.

I do not think the U.S. will invade Iran but I do think Iran will increasingly be a world problem with much blood on their hands. With China (needs the petro) and Russia(sells them nuke stuff)  siding with Iran and telling us we are bullies it furthur complicates matters.

This is not good news but I want to be realistic and this is very realistic.

[Alpster]

Basschaser57 has summed it up pretty well, they want us dead. They have always wanted us dead. It is only matter of time until we see the kind of daily market bombings and terrorist attacks on main street USA as Isreal has lived with for a very long time. I am not an alarmist, but a realist. No amount of dipolmacy will change 1000s of years of religious hatred. Radical Islam is not intereted in "getting along" at all. Only one thing means success, destruction of all who believe otherwise.

Ronnie

[Troutfisher]

Agreed, Alpster and Basschaser.

Here is a good website that details scriptures of the Quran.

http://www.atruechurch.info/quran.html

Here's a quote from one of the passages on the site.

The Quran not only calls Muslims to fight, it also attempts to persuade those who dislike such violence away from peaceful living.

Fighting is prescribed upon you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not. (S.2, A.216)

Herein (S.2, A.216) are the words of Isaiah fulfilled.

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20)

The Quran calls evil good and good evil, and puts darkness for light and light for darkness, and puts bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter, by calling it good to slay unbelievers (S.2, A.190-193, 216, etc.), by saying the Quran brings light (S.4, A.174, see footnote # 679), and by saying those who follow Allah will have a sweet existence hereafter (S.47, A.12). All of these are lies (Revelation 21:8).

Furthermore, the Quran goes so far as to say that a Muslim wrongs himself if he does not "fight the Pagans."

The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year) - so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred: That is the right religion so wrong not yourselves therein, and fight the Pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves. (S.9, A.36, bold added)

This passage may well say that Allah is with those who restrain themselves, but, according to the Quran, there is no restraint in fighting people who fight you.

Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight) smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind (the captives) firmly: (S.47, A.4)

And slacken not in following up the enemy: if ye are suffering hardships, they are suffering similar hardships: (S.4, A.104)

Not until the "Unbelievers" are thoroughly subdued (S.47, A.4), or somehow inclined toward peace (S.8, A.61), are Muslims restrained (S.4, A.90). In contrast, the true Word of God describes proper restraint, making no war.

[BassChaser57]

Alpster,

I modified my post and added to it. You may want to re-look.

Kevin

aka BC57

[Nick B]

Is it just me or is todays Middle East conflict seem like another "Crusade"?

A lot of our problem with confrontation has to do with the UN, the main reason we went into Iraq was because Saddam constantly scoffed at UN inspectors and all the UN would do is make idle threats. We got sick of it and took action, although we havent found any of the weapons, I can be quite sure that the weapons he had are hidden somewhere, he had 10 years to do that. With the way the troops are spread out now it would be hard to mount an offesive right now. However now that we are in Iraq we have a place to launch. As a military member I am really hoping that we dont have to take on Iran, but if we do I fear we will have to do it alone.

[Dan:]

I think that the world has more of an interest in Iran than with Iraq so if something happens with Iran, we will probably have more worldwide support or aid.

[justfishin]

I did see on CNN the other day while watching some Senate hearings that the US Administration was prepared and expected to lose an American city in the next 5 years to terrorists.

Basschaser, I am shocked. I was not aware that the above statements were made. You sparked my interest. How are they prepared to lose city?, and when did they come to this conclusion? Also, they expected to lose a  American city? I do not understand why these two statements are not plastered all over the media. Considering these statements we are in much deeper trouble than I ever imagined. Thanks for the heads up. This is unbelievable to me. Is everyone as floored as I am?

[Sam]

As I understand the situation, nothing will be done to Iran as we (USA) do not want to destroy the stability of the Middle East.

The USA is monitoring the Iran nuclear project, which is years away from making any type of nuclear weapon or having the delivery system to deliver it.

However, the USA has to become independent from foreign oil so when the day comes to have the "Fist of God" fall upon our Middle Eastern enemies, the USA will not suffer any problems from the stoppage of oil.

Of course, Europe will be devestated without oil, but I doubt the USA is willing to go in to Europe to bail their chestnuts out of the fire once again.

As was said by one of our Senators, if Iran strikes Israel, then Iran will be wiped of the face of the earth.

As for China, they have their own internal problems.  Russia is nothing but a pain in the behind but their bark is worse then their bite.  Russia has so many internal enemies that Russia has to watch its sides and behind all the time.

Talk is cheap. And there are talks going on in secret all the time.

Do you really think the North Korea talks we are now engaged are "just happening"?  Nope.  There have been many behind the scenes discussions so each side knows what to expect as an outcome.

And as governments and economic conditions change so do the anti-American positions, such as with Lybia.

If it was up to me, I would drill for more in the Alaska area; stop shipping our oil to Japan; hvae a "plant based fuel program" blitz;and nuke the SOBs. Then, throw the United Nations out of New York.

But thats ole loveable me!

[justfishin]

I thought everyone would find this interesting.

The administration is expected to ask Congress early next month for more money for Iraq and Afghanistan for 2007, including more than $5 billion in additional Pentagon assistance for Karzai's security forces.

However, the White House's Office of Management and Budget halved a State Department request for just over $1 billion, which was to target Pakistan's secular educational system and aid programs in the tribal areas. Both efforts were intended to reduce the influence of Islamic militants, a U.S. official said.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates is examining requests for more U.S. troops, but he's unlikely to do more than extend the tours of units that are already in Afghanistan because of the demand for more forces for Iraq.

The United States is pressing NATO members and other allies to contribute more peacekeepers, helicopters, transport planes and other equipment to the 32,000-strong NATO-led force in Afghanistan. The United States has some 12,000 troops in that force, and it maintains a separate counter-insurgency contingent of some 9,000 soldiers.

But key International Security Assistance Force members, including Germany and Italy, continue to resist U.S. demands to loosen restrictions - known as caveats - on the use of their troops in combat operations.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was expected to press for relaxing the caveats and to ask U.S. allies for more troops and equipment at a special NATO foreign ministers conference on Afghanistan in Brussels, Belgium, on Friday. Representatives from Australia and Japan also will attend.

While the United States isn't likely to contribute more soldiers, it hopes to announce a major increase in assistance for Afghanistan, the senior State Department official said.

He also said the United States was pressing Pakistan to do more to stop cross-border infiltration.

[paparock]

Is it just me or is todays Middle East conflict seem like another "Crusade"?

Did the USA go to the "Holy Land" to win back Jersualm from Islamic control? If the answer is no then it is not by definition a "Crusade".

A lot of our problem with confrontation has to do with the UN, the main reason we went into Iraq was because Saddam constantly scoffed at UN inspectors and all the UN would do is make idle threats. We got sick of it and took action, although we havent found any of the weapons, I can be quite sure that the weapons he had are hidden somewhere, he had 10 years to do that. With the way the troops are spread out now it would be hard to mount an offesive right now. However now that we are in Iraq we have a place to launch. As a military member I am really hoping that we dont have to take on Iran, but if we do I fear we will have to do it alone.

Since Iran almost weekly calls for wiping Israel of the face of the Earth and "Death to America" what do you see in the future? Especially once the radical Islamists that control that country get their hands on "The Bomb", do you think they mean what they say? Most people in America and Europe did not believe what Germany was saying through Hitler. You see I already believe we are in to the first opening years of WW III. The question is just like WW II, how many million will have to be slaughtered before the world will wake up and try to do something about it. Some of us students of history know that if it had not been for a few German scientists that made contact with the Allies because they did not want a madman with the atom bomb and were spirited out of Europe to the USA. Hitler would have developed the atom bomb rather than us and we might be speaking German today. At least those scientists understood you do not let madmen play with atom bombs. If only the UN understood that today there may never come a time we would need to go it alone. All it would take is one Hamas member coming across the Mexican border (already operational delivery system) to a city like the Houston area (that supplies close to 40% of Americas petrochemical output) with a suitcase nuclear bomb and the dead would be counted in the millions. Crazy? Yes, but you and I both know they would do it and claim no knowledge of what happened. They most likely would say the US Government nuked their own people for an excuse to attack them. Many in this present world and many supposed American leaders would believe it. So, what is the answer from your perspective if they continue as they are and get the Bomb? You know the United Nothings Nations will not put teeth in stopping them just like when they took bribes from Saddam. Me, I sure do not have the answer and I am glad that weight is not on my shoulders. I guess that is why God said in scripture to pray for your country's leaders because they are going to need a lot of wisdom (something they have not shown a lot of during my lifetime). Only history will tell what was done right or wrong because hindsight is always 20/20.

[Water Dog]

Gentlemen, I believe that each of you are on the right track and that we will continue on a collision course with militant Islam for the foreseeable future and that is not encouraging.  The militants will see our pull out of Iraq just as they did our pull out of the ill conceived 'cut and run' mission in Somalia.  This will further embolden them on their quest for world wide indoctrination of their version of Islam.  Unfortunately it takes more than a twin towers atrocity to harden the American Will to the point of following through with a military response.  

If something like that happens again or something worse; for example, a nuclear strike you will see the politicos follow the polls as the will of the American People changes.  The last thing that a warrior wants is war, but if it comes you have to recognize the risks and follow through.  In the last 2000 years there have been about 35 years when there wasn't a war going on somewhere.

In order to succeed in war, PC Rules of Engagement and the ever present hostile News Media have to be left home.  In the Revolutionary War the British tried to fight a PC war by wearing nice red coats and lost.  The mission must be clearly defined and you follow through until completion.  Mission creep is not allowed and you don't tie the hands of the military leaders..

Our military should not be used as a social proving ground or meals on wheels.  All of the politicians that we have now violate the above.  The only difference is that some are worse than others.

Facts:  Peaceful ways of defeating Islam

 1.The West's need for oil also fuels militant Islam.  If we could achieve energy independence again along with Europe, militant Islam would falter to a certain extent.  They wouldn't change their hatred but they wouldn't have the funding to achieve their goals.  

 2. There is a lot of discontentment in Iran with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the militant Islam hierarchy and lower sales of oil would slow them down.  We need to encourage a regime change.

 3. In our own hemisphere we to our detriment allow the environmental wackos to keep us from energy independence.  We need to develop and use all of our resources: nuclear, hydrogen, natural gas, oil, oil shale, coal, solar, alcohol, wind, and hydro.

I think that we need to be both concerned with Iran militant activities and our response or lack thereof.

I'm not sure that this Congress would authorize a nuclear response to a nuclear attack by Iran on us or Israel.  I'm afraid that we may be too PC and too soft to avoid an attack.

[BassChaser57]

WOW-

I am impressed with the depth of the information on this subject!

In the thread you keep saying IF the U.S. could find an alternate energy source???

That would be wonderful as we hit peak oil in 1977 which means we use more that we find since 1977. The North Sea hit peak oil in 1998 and is suspected that the Middle East hit peak oil about 2000. Since those times the world is using twice as much oil on a daily basis than it finds.

The U.S in the 1970's had Iran as a stable oil supply, in the 80's and 90's it was Saudia Arabia, now we have no allies in the region and whether we want to believe it or not--oil IS a national interest. 25% of the U.S. oil comes from the Middle East, imagine for a moment if we were 25%shorter on gas. The price would skyrocket, the availability would be scarce with a high probability of rationing and life as we have known it would change for ever.

The Bio-fuel plants in the U.S. are just about to hit the maximum as they have all the excess crops in use now. Yes, the Government could and probably would loosen some of the idle farm land but as of now if we increased production of bio-fuel the price of farm products would increase causing their product to be a much higher price.

As for Alaskan oil, much of the Noth Slope oil heads for Japan. Don't ask my why as I do not know but we do have mass reserves of oil in Alaska and a large new find in the Gulf of Mexico. These will not reverse the peak but it will help.

There are no easy answers as our #3 oil supplier is Venezuala and they hate us also.

Our oil money will not buy friends in the Middle East but IF we COULD find an alternate source of energy as was said earlier, we could cease to fund a set of nations that want to see us disappear.

Ten years ago China's main mode of transportation was the bicycle, I will be in Shangi on Wednesday and it is unbelievable how modern EVERYTHING is there and the number of autos and trucks is amazing. China and India can take up most of the slack in oil from the Middle East if we get an alternate energy source so the Middle East $$ will not dry up.

As I said before, it is not pretty, it is not easy, but this is fact and is our future reality.

[Siebert Outdoors]

Ok, here is how its going to happen.  

We move 25k troops to Baghdad.  Why,  look where iran is geographically located.  We have already moved more carriers there.

With that said.  We wont do anything but bluff.  Read rest of post.

We wont go into iran without Nato backing on this one,  same as N Korea.  It will have to be a joint effort.

Isreal will be the ones that bomb Iranian nuke plants from US intel.  Then we will say just like last time.  We dont agree with that.  But good job and thanks.  Like I said Isreal will be the ones the take care of Iranian nuke program.  Reason Isreal doesnt put up the the BS.  

I'm with Sam  we despretly need to get out of foreign oil.   Whatever it takes we need out.

We must also deal with the Iraq issue and fight it to the end.  We can not pull out without completing it.  I am affraid when we have a white house change that is exactly what will happen.  We will crap on the Iraqi people like many others.  Then there will be a huge civil war in Iraq that will bleed to the rest of the middle east.

[Water Dog]

I believe that some in our Government are trying to make the best choice with a series of bad options, where there is no clear magic bullet to solve the problem, and they have to weigh the costs and benefits of a series of unpalatable alternatives.  With this decision making there are risks that have to be weighed.  

We should recognize that there isn't necessarily a magic bullet that's going to solve the problem easily and without a cost, and that sometimes acting on very imperfect information we run the risk of making a serious mistake, but we still have to make a decision because not to make a decision is the worst of all outcomes.

One thing that is so troubling is that our leaders around the world that represent western societies and western cultures really don't have the will to fight this right now, and I think they don't even have the guts to admit what this is.  This is a religious war. It is viewed in too many circles as just episodic events, an episode of terrorism here, an episode of terrorism over there, an episode there, but not really related, we'll just keep dealing with these episodes.  One of the things about religious wars and one of the reasons why so few people really want to categorize this as a religious war is because there is no room for compromise in a religious war. Fervently devout religious believers don't compromise.  

That's why there's no room for the UN. There's no room for a settlement negotiated when you're talking about religious wars, and we are in the midst of a religious war, and the aggressors in this case are militant Islamic fascists.  Negotiation is used as a tool by Islam to prepare for war.

The enemy has not suffered a loss yet. They've just taken Somalia, they're slaughtering people in Iraq, and they're on the rise in Afghanistan. I'm not saying that we haven't made any progress.  We have made a lot of progress in Iraq with the people electing a fledgling government but we haven't been taking the war to this enemy. We've been doing the typical State Department PC thing.

"We can't let Iran take over the Middle East." What are we going to do to stop that?

Peace always follows a genuine Victory.  We will not have peace with a declared victory, a pseudo-victory, a wimp and run pull out that will cost more lives in the long run.

A boni-fide, undeniable WIN in Iraq would go a long way toward defeating Islam fascism.  They are going to have to be defeated.

[roadwarrior]

Is it true that when sand is heated to 10,000,000 degrees centigrade it becomes glass?

I think the world needs more glass.

2/23/07 is the U.N. extended deadline demanding Iran cease its uranium enhancement activities. Not coincidently, the United States has positioned another carrier task force in the region. During the weekend of 2/24/07 I expect the United States to initiate the most far reaching, dramatic execution of force ever unleashed in the Middle East. Reinforced bunkers will not withstand the onslaught. The damage and destruction will redefine our position in the region. When diplomacy fails, the military options are enormous.  

We have the means. We built them, let's use them.

[Dan:]

I think we gotta make sure we have more support this time though, rw. If we just decide to completely destroy Iran without them making the first move, then more people are gonna hate use, it will justify North Korea in their nuclear arsenal and it will encourage more islamic extremists. If we go with a run and gun show of power, it'll make it worse for us in the future and like it or not, we can't live in a global community if we do such aggressive things on our own without allies.

[chitwnbass]

It's an amazing how so much speculative data creates so much "Fear".  Do we have any concrete data that is "public" about the state of Iran's nuclear project?

As far as a nation like Iran or North Korea ever delivering a nuclear device to American soil is a mega long shot at very best.  Our military has most conventional nuclear threats pretty well covered.  No sub is going to come close enough to the U.S. to deliver a warhead our L.A. class fast attack subs will be sure of that. As far as ballistic delivery the US has the capability of intercepting these threats a variety of ways. Patriot, Aegis, and the newest Arrow missile defense systems are all in line to defeat these threats.  Nuclear devices are very hard to transport and disguise.  So called suitcase bombs are very hard to produce and aren't a likely scenario.  The U.S. also tracks and can detect nuclear material through a variety of systems in place.

Contrary to popular belief we are relatively safe from a nuclear threat.  STOP WORRYING.  All this media attention is doing one thing, creating "Fear".  Fear creates money. People want to feel safe and they will spend money to do it.  All these wonderful defense agency's fund themselves by increasing their budgets during a time when the American people feel unsafe. A country as a whole would have to be ludicrous to outright provoke a confrontation with the U.S. these days. While a few radical separatist may attempt attacks no government wants to bring the U.S. military machine down on them.  

The U.S. needs to address the terrorist threats in a different way then invading entire countries.  Occupation of these countries can work, but lead to a long drawn out bloody conflict. Does anybody believe we have achieved what we set out to do in Iraq or Afghanistan yet?  Can the U.S. afford to put itself in a similar situation in Iran or North Korea? We need to keep working diplomatic routes and stop being so quick to jump the gun with the military.

Also I can't listen to people any more when they tie Islam or perversions of the Quran to the reason people do these horrible things.  Islam is a religion and is peaceful by nature. Religions were created to bring peace, direction and unity in people.  People that hide behind religion to do these atrocities can not be looked at as religious. People need to understand there is no thing as an "Islamic militant", just a militant. Its ashame that the view of Islam and people of that belief are tainted by these people actions and it's even more disappointing that ignorant people believe that Islam is out to get the western world. All I can hope for is that people are more accepting and inform themselves fully before judging people. Give peace and understanding a chance!!!!  What happened to all those seventies hippies when you need them? Guess their all retired.

[cart7t]

Perhaps the first mistake this country made should be taken care of before we go bumbling into another one.

BTW, the populace of this country doesn't have the nerve to go into Iran. Iraq was and will continue to be a cake walk compared to trying to take the fight to that country.

[Troutfisher]

Also I can't listen to people any more when they tie Islam or perversions of the Quran to the reason people do these horrible things. Islam is a religion and is peaceful by nature. Religions were created to bring peace, direction and unity in people. People that hide behind religion to do these atrocities can not be looked at as religious. People need to understand there is no thing as an "Islamic militant", just a militant. Its ashame that the view of Islam and people of that belief are tainted by these people actions and it's even more disappointing that ignorant people believe that Islam is out to get the western world. All I can hope for is that people are more accepting and inform themselves fully before judging people. Give peace and understanding a chance!!!! What happened to all those seventies hippies when you need them? Guess their all retired.

How many Amish Farmers, Buddhist Monks, Jewish Leaders and Christian Pastors did you see going around blowing themselves up for their religion?

None.

Radical Islamic terrorists are the just cause behind the terrorist attacks.

As far as a nation like Iran or North Korea ever delivering a nuclear device to American soil is a mega long shot at very best. Our military has most conventional nuclear threats pretty well covered

I'll bet there were people saying that on September 10, 2001 as well.

Give peace and understanding a chance!!!!

We did give peace a chance.  We got 9-11.  If we duck and run from Iraq, it shows terrorists that we are a weak country.  Terrorists won't listen to reason.  It's time to suck it up, stand behind our troops, and give war a chance.

[Raul]

Why does everybody have the idea that a nuclear device has to look like this ?:

Or that is has to be delivered this way ?:

or like this ?:

Hasn 't anybody had the idea that a nuclear device doesn 't necessary has to be big bang bomb ?

Let 's see ..... I 'm an islamic fundamentalist terrorist group and I want to create a nuclear device, can 't get my hands on enriched uranium, can 't get my hands on a termonuclear device like a warhead from an SS missile, those cost a ton of dough and you can 't get them in Home Depot ..... but I can get my hands on a big bunch of discarded X-ray units sold for a few hundred dollars at the army surplus supply stores that are so abundant all over the US, I open the X-ray unit, grind the cobalt inside them to the point of making it dust, then I purchase or rent a truck and then go to the nearest farm supply warehouse and purchase a big bunch of fertilizer, go to the gas station and purchase a bunch of diesel fuel, then to my trusty gun shop to purchase powder, then I go and purchase a bunch plastic trash cans, mix everything together and bingo, now I 've got meself a nuclear device, all I need to do is to detonate it in the nearest big city, the cloud of dust created from the blast is going to cover all the city and irradiate everybody in it.

Scary isn 't it ?

Who says they don 't have the ability to deliver a nuclear device inside US soil ?

[Troutfisher]

Agreed.  Although the United States, in my opinion, has one of the greatest armies in the world, I believe we should never just assume that nothing bad will happen.  Instead of cutting funds for our military, we should be putting money into supplying our troops and making sure they have the latest cutting edge technology to stop any sorry SOB that tries to ruin this fine country.

[paparock]

Also I can't listen to people any more when they tie Islam or perversions of the Quran to the reason people do these horrible things. Islam is a religion and is peaceful by nature. Religions were created to bring peace, direction and unity in people. People that hide behind religion to do these atrocities can not be looked at as religious. People need to understand there is no thing as an "Islamic militant", just a militant. Its ashame that the view of Islam and people of that belief are tainted by these people actions and it's even more disappointing that ignorant people believe that Islam is out to get the western world. All I can hope for is that people are more accepting and inform themselves fully before judging people. Give peace and understanding a chance!!!! What happened to all those seventies hippies when you need them? Guess their all retired.

You have not studied the Quran or the Hadith teachings about the life and example set by Muhammad if you believe the above because they are counter to the fundamental teachings of Islam. Hamas and Hezbollah are among us here in the USA now and with our open borders, no sophisticated delivery system is needed. Do you ever wonder how they get people so ready to kill themselves for Islam? It is because Islam is a religion of "works" whereby the only believers that are guaranteed entry into their understanding of heaven is if they die in defense of Islam as a martyr (read suicide bomber or soldier fighting the infidels). I would suggest you do some in depth study into the Middle Eastern Base Fundamentals of Islam and you will find the exact opposite of what you said above is true. Ask the D.C. Imam supporting jihad terror and Islamic supremacism

"The most glorious death is the death of the martyr," says Imam Musa's Myspace page.

Their goal is exactly as they say. Have you not heard people like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad say we western nations must covert to Islam? They are not making a joke as they mean to destroy our way of life just as he and others including many Islamic Imams proclaim.

To understand this better I would suggest you read some of the excellent books available from different sources such as Dr. Mark A. Gabriel, and Rober Spencer. Mark A. Gabriel grew up as a Muslim in Egypt and earned a Ph.D. in Islamic history and culture from Al-Azhar University in Cairo. He is uniquely qualified to explain the teachings of the Quran, to analyze events related to Islam, and to articulate the motives of Islamic terrorists. Since 2002 he has authored Islam and Terrorism, Islam and the Jews, Jesus and Muhammad. In January 2006, he released his most recent book, titled Journey into the Mind of an Islamic Terrorist. Author of several books on Islam and its relationship to Christians, Jews, and Terrorism. Robert Spencer,http://www.jihadwatch.org/, author of books like "The Truth about Muhammad", and "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam. There is also another excelent book "Why I Left Jihad" by an Ex-Muslim Terrorist Walid Shoebat that might give you a whole different perspective from a man raised in Islam and a Palestinian Terrorist in the PLO until he could no longer stomach what he had become. See it through his eyes and then say to me Islam as taught in the Middle East by its highest most respected scholars is a Religion of Peace.

Here is an old picture of a nuke designed for hand delivery. This would most likely be similar to what Iran would have smuggled into the USA and set off by a proxy group like Hamas.

Special Atomic Demolition Munition (SADM), a Navy and Marine Corps project that was demonstrated as feasible in the mid-to-late 1960s. The package shown was intended to be used by UDT/Seal Special Forces, delivered into water by parachute along with a two man team, then floated to the target, set in place and armed by hand. Designed to attack a harbor or other strategic location that could be accessed from the sea.

If you want to read first hand how the majority of Middle Eastern Muslims view non-Muslims then this is the scource: http://www.irandefence.net/

[cart7t]

Attacking Iran will not stop further terrorists actions from happening. The guy responsible for 9-11 is still running around in the mountains of western Pakistan.  Nothing has stopped him up to this point from doing it again.  If this country wants to do something useful, it might be sending troops into Pakistan and flushing the real terrorists out.

BTW, broad brushing all Muslims by tying them to extremist terrorists is merely showing your ignorance of those people and their religion.  For example, there are extremist "Right to lifers" who have and do believe in taking the life of abortion doctors as a means of making their point and pushing their agenda.  Anyone that believes that the majority of people who believe in right to life have the same tendencies is poorly misinformed.  

[Troutfisher]

So the terrorists who blow themselves up in Iraq aren't the bad guys; the guys who blow themselves up in Afghanistan are.  :