Weather and Climate Change

[roadwarrior]

"If you don't like the weather today, just wait until tomorrow!"

Weather is never "normal". Over the past 4 billion years, average temperatures have been both incredibly cold and incredibly warm. At one time the planent was practically on fire. During another peroiod lasting 600 million years or so, almost the entire surface of planet was frozen. Temperatures have ALWAYS varied over millions of years, often dramatically.

If you are really interested, spend some time on the internet and look at the data gathered from ocean core samples extending back millions of years and ice core samples dating back tens of thousands of years. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at a graphical display and recognize the volatility of the earth's climate.

Is the earth warming?

Well, the answer is probably yes. But this occurs all of the time- the climate changes constantly over long periods of time even though it might appear quite constant for extended intervals. The earth is still warming from the peak of the CURRENT ice age. Yes, we are still living in the "last" ice age as demonstrated by the existance of ancient glaciers and polar ice sheets.

Generally, warmer weather is conducive to life and that is certainly the case over the long run. The dinosaur era lasted for a period of several hundred million years and expanded the diversity of the species to fill virtually ever niche in nature. Dinos thrived because of a consistantly hot environment for an extended period of time. More recent "climate change" has resulted in one of the greatest expansions in specific (higher) species populations in the history of the world: mankind. More people are living on this planet today than the CUMULATIVE total of all people that have ever livied on earth!

The next ice age is "just around the corner," and will almost certainly arrive within the next 100,000 years.

[Guest the_muddy_man]

Hey RW I do what I can to be kind to the enviorment but I don't waste time worying about the things I have no control over . Right now I just hope there is no Ice on thr Fork come March!!!!!!

[Zel]

So does that mean I can look forward to catching the Florida strain of Largemouth up here in Pennsylvania any time soon?

[Guest the_muddy_man]

Hey Joe if I catch any at the Fork maybe we can safely transport them to the Chunk!!!!!!!! Just kidding fellas ;D

[senile1]

RW, like you, I've studied the climate change issue and history doesn't lie regarding the warming and cooling of the earth.  It has always occurred and always will as long as the earth exists.  In my opinion, no one can absolutely be certain whether the current warming is a normal part of this climate change.  However, we do know that the things we humans add to the atmosphere aren't good.  I think we should always look for ways to decrease the pollutants we are adding to the atmosphere, regardless of whether we are the main cause of this warming period or not.  

[Shad_Master]

Senile1, I think you have hit the nail on the head -- it isn't so much a question of whether or not the polar ice caps will melt, it is what are we doing to the planet that is contributing to a problem that may be looming on the horizon.  For me the issue is all wrapped up in the 'catch & release' that we as bass fishermen/women mostly support.  I like to eat fish and do so when I can, but my main concern is -- if I eat him today, I can't catch him tomorrow.  I try to do my part in supporting conservation and I think if we all did things would only get better.

[Raul]

Them guys living in the coastal areas are the ones that have to worry about when them ice caps melt, me ? I live at 5400 ft above sea level, my feet ain 't gonna get wet when that happens.  

Kidding aside, the climatic systems are extremely complex, even with our present day technology and our present day knowledge all we can say with 100% of accuracy is that we don 't know everything that 's needed to know in order to make an accurate proyection on something so complex in the short term future.

What are we, the human race, to blame for:

1.- Driving wildlife to extiction by overharvesting and by ecosystem degradation ( in the name of progress or in the name of pure bare necessity ).

2.- Of creating chemical compounds that never existed in nature before that in many cases are doomed to stay for the next couple of centuries if we get lucky.

Doomsday scientists and doomsday media love to scare the easily impressionable, the illiterate , the uneducated with their "run for cover, the sky is falling !" philosophy. One thing is for shure there are other as qualified as the first ones that say that it 's not so and both seldomly agree.

Doomsady scientists say that global warming is happening beacuse we are putting too much greenhouse effect gasses into the atmosphere, that we should stop doing so, that we need cleaner sources of energy, bla, bla, bla, something easy to say when you live in a first world country with it 's wealth of knowledge, technology and economic power and wealth; but unfortunately not everybody in the world lives in a first world country, how can you come and say to someone ( which represent the vast majority of the people in the planet ) not to burn wood to cook their meal beacuse burning wood causes deforestation, when the people you are telling not to do so goes to bed without having supper, wakes up and doesn 't have breakfast and only makes one meal a day in the best case ?

Ironic.

Imagine you are in an isolated island, away from anything with limited ammounts of water and soil, you can 't escape.

Here 's our island:

And until we can develop technology to take us somewhere else we are here to stay.

[justfishin]

In addition...                 www.epa.gov/climatechange/

                                  www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/air/globalwarming/Global_Warming_site.html

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

"If you don't like the weather today, just wait until tomorrow!"

Weather is never "normal". Over the past 4 billion years, average temperatures have been both incredibly cold and incredibly warm. At one time the planent was practically on fire. During another peroiod lasting 600 million years or so, almost the entire surface of planet was frozen. Temperatures have ALWAYS varied over millions of years, often dramatically.

This reminds me of a comedian who was talking about mother Earth once. He was commenting on the "save the Earth" bumper stickers and saying,...."don't worry about mother Earth, she's seen much worse, worry about yourself!"

Earth will survive if the temps rise too high or if I dump all my used oil in a nearby stream. Humans and their food sorces,....well that's another story, but EARTH,.... she'll be just fine.

I would be curious to know, however, what the creatures that are at the apex of the next mass extinction will be like.

Dinosaurs,us, what's next?

[John J.]

Global Warming is surely in effect! Here it is January and we are getting highs in the upper 60s!! Usually it is in the 20s and 30s...

Like themuddyman said, individually we have no control over the environment. WE as a nation must come together and reduce pollution and carbon dioxide distribution. One day I see this planet ending up like Venus. The atmostphere on Venus is like a giant hot-house. Full of nothing but Carbon Dioxide and the temperatures are easily like an oven. Reaching up to 800-1000 degrees! It is funny, Venus is extremely HOT and mars is basically dead! Mars' thin atmostphere cannot contain much carbon dioxide to warm up the planet.

My guess is that we will find a way to reach either the Andromeda Galaxy or other nearby galaxies and find a planet hospitable for humans. That would be an alternative. The way I see it there are two choices...

1.) Find a new planet to colonize or

2.) REDUCE pollution and carbon dioxide distribution to save our planet's atmosphere.

No matter what we choose, I will still do the things I do today, because I know individually I cannot change the world for everyone! If this nation (USA) and the whole world comes to an agreement to reduce pollution and carbon dioxide to save the planet, of course I will tag along and help. Other than that, it is not my task to perform. I will try as I may to have a good life and live as long as I can. If one day the planet gives in and balances itself and I ended up perishing, all I can say is that is the way the lord intended it and indeed I have no MAJOR role in the planet's balancing, it is all natural.

Before humans populated the earth and started using engines and equipment which put off all the carbon dioxide, the oxygen and atmosphere of this earth was clean, rich and pure. But now...it is smoggy, dirty and poor. And what doesn't help is industrilization. Clearing forests to build homes, trees take in the carbon dioxide and release oxygen (which everyone knows that), we are loosing our forest population due to money gain and over population. In my opinion this country's law should be like that of China's:

Have a child to replace each of the parents and no more! Two kids, that's it! If we could do that, this planet would not be overpopulated and we could easily manage the forest population and the trees themselves will clean this planet with our help!

Global Warming is a fact! And it will effect the future.

God bless all! 8-)

[Marty]

It's well-understood that there have been climate cycles forever, but none of those cycles were after the Industrial Revolution started. It doesn't take a scientist to realize that the countless tons of pollutants we're releasing into the atmosphere aren't doing us any good and may very well be contributing to the current warming.

[John J.]

It's well-understood that there have been climate cycles forever, but none of those cycles were after the Industrial Revolution started. It doesn't take a scientist to realize that the countless tons of pollutants we're releasing into the atmosphere aren't doing us any good and may very well be contributing to the current warming.

absolutely, we aren't the only one's contributing gases into the atmosphere, volcanoes, natural gas springs, etc. are all releasing carbon dioxide, methane and other gases into our atmosphere. We are contributing a major part of the release of these green house gases, however. And no doubt before man industrialized the earth natural sources were polluting the earth, but what I was saying was the atmosphere was much cleaner then, compared to now with humans.

That was another point before when I mentioned Venus. Of course there are no man made structures on the planet to release these gases, so therefore natural springs and volcanoes are producing these gases and therefore made the atmosphere of the planet unstable and unhospitable for humans.

There is no other planet in our galaxy (Milky Way) which a man may one day invade. The only planet that is close would be Mars, but still life there would be a challenge. Mercury and Venus are all to close to the sun and they have extreme temperatures. Jupiter is so enormous and has high density radiational atmosphere, Saturn has record high speed winds averaging up to 1000 miles an hour. Uranus and Neptune are too far away from the sun to regain warmth, and their atmosphere is ice-like clouds. And of course there is no such thing as Pluto anymore, because some BONE HEAD took it off the stellar map and replaced it as an asteroid, which is apart of the outer asteroid belt of our solar system. But even still pluto had no atmosphere and of course the temperatures were extremely COLD on that "planet".

(you are all aware of this probably) Scientists are looking at the different moons of Jupiter, and Saturn. The one they hit was Jupiter's Ice moon "Europa". According to satellite photographs, Europa has a frozen ocean surface which has a ocean underneath. They say life forms are able to adapt and live in these freezing cold waters under miles of ice, so they are going to invent a drill and send it on a probe to Europa and drill down to the 'ocean' and see if any life forms exist. (this is for other life forms however...not for hospitality for humans)

I remember seeing something about Saturn's moon 'Titan' and that it is similar to the atmosphere of Earth in a sense that it has all the gases similar. Maybe one day we will be able to live close to Saturn and see it's georgeous rings up close in person! As always, that is in the distant future. We just hope that Earth's atmosphere will withstand it's so called 'punishment' long enough for us to make that discovery and voyage.

I bid you all good night! 8-)

God bless

[Guest avid]

Let's assume we earthlings won't be colonizing the galaxy anytime soon.

Kent, I'm curious about somethng. When you were reading about core samples from the polar ice, did you come accros anything about how the levels of carbon monoxide in the atmosphere are directly related to periods of global warming?

I saw something about this on the discovery channel. What this researcher was saying that by drilling deep into the thickest (oldest) layers of ice on the poles, they can take measurments of the gasses contained in the ice goning back many thousands of years.

His finding regarding carbon monoxide was alarming (his word) because he observed that the earths warmest periods coincided with high levels of carbon monoxide in the atmosphere.

What was so disturbing to him was that the most recent samples contain levels of carbon monoxide that are much higher than any in previous history. He stated that the begnning of the dramtic increase coincided with the industrial revolution and has gotten progressively worse.

His conclusion of course was that the earth is warming at an alarming rate. Due in large part to human causes.

Raul, I think you made an exellent and often overlooked point.  Namely that is obnoxious of the industrialized world (the colonizers, plunderers, and polluters) to say to emerging countries, that they can't use their natural resources, because it will harm the earth.

DA NOIVE!!!!!

a classic case is Brazil and thier rain forest.   Yes, it's true that the huge tracts of dense greenery are important to enrich the atmosphere.  But so are the forests in America and Europe.  I live in a booming area of Florda where everything green is being plowed under for another housing development.

How dare we tell poor, struggling countries that they can't use their natural treasures to enrich the lives of their people while we consume the worlds resources and create waste with gluttonous abandon.

[justfishin]

             Core sampling in the Antarctic ice.

                                              www.antarcticconnection.com/antarctic/science/greenhouse.shtml

[Troutfisher]

Who is to say that the earth doesn't cool down every 300 to 400 years, or heat up every 300-400 years? Was the scientific technology we now possess around in the 1600's to measure the quality of the air or the level of gas put into the air? I believe in pollution, of course, but not necessarily global warming. If I went outside at midnight, and my neighbor turned on his back porch light, does that necessarily mean he does it every night at that exact time? Of course not. So, how can we infer that the earth is unnaturally heating or cooling if we haven't had the technology to measure what the exact temperature of the earth was back even 200 years ago, or measure the level of the ozone layer, or how thick the ice caps are?

Even after stating this, however, I don't believe that we should be pumping large levels of soot and pollution into the air. Strict rules should be placed on factories that put sludge into the ocean or pump it into the air. The Clean Air Act enacted by President Bush was quite helpful in that it enacted such laws into effect. Besides, if the rivers and streams and oceans are polluted, where would we fish?

Edit at 6:05 p.m. Eastern time:

I'm watching the news right now, and a spokesperson of the NOAA has just stated...

"It is not global warming at all.  We are in a mild to moderate el nino pattern right now, and this el nino is not caused by global warming."

I guess that's your answer.

[Marty]

I'm watching the news right now, and a spokesperson of the NOAA has just stated...

"It is not global warming at all.  We are in a mild to moderate el nino pattern right now, and this el nino is not caused by global warming."

I guess that's your answer.

Answer to what? It seems that the NOAA guy is talking about our current warm spell and is not addressing the existence or non-existence of global warming.

[Troutfisher]

I was referring to the warm spell.... I should have specified in that edit that he was speaking of this warm weather we've been having.

As far as global warming itself, my stance is above on the previous post.

[Water Dog]

I predict global cooling in about a week... ;D

Remember the concensus of scientists at one time was that the earth was flat, well so much for concensus in the scientific community. ;D

The Government has been granting studies on cow flatuance by some of our major universities for years and its effect on greenhouse gases. ;D Now this has been a big joke but recently these scientists have determined that cows release more polutants than SUV's. ;D

Coincidentallly these same 'greenies' want us to stop eating beef. ;D Do you see a pattern here? These same people don't want you to hurt a fish with a hook, let alone fish for sport. How heartless and cruel can you be!!!! Hurting fish for the fun of it, how awful.

We need to take stock of how much the enviroment has improved over the last 40 years. My State's streams are much cleaner due to the passage and enforcement of some good common sense laws.

As an individual it amounts pretty much to: "Do Unto Others as You Would Have them Do Unto You." and "Love Your Neighbor As Yourself".

If we would all adhere to that there wouldn't be any pollutants going down stream.

[Guest avid]

"Do Unto Others as You Would Have them Do Unto You."  and "Love Your Neighbor As Yourself".

I try to, but for some reason it really piszess off my wife

[Dan:]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008597

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20061206-112922-6839r.htm

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article2062484.ece

[Troutfisher]

Ha!  Good information Water Dog and C312!

[justfishin]

, wait a minute,wait a minute, what did I miss. I just left General Bass Fishing to come over here to Everything Else and now you all are telling me that cow farts are the reason for it being 70 degrees on Jan. 7th. I say feed them bovines some deer baloney and sour kraut and keep Ole' Bessie tootin', I love this warm weather.

[boondocks]

I'm with Jim Blair on this one. Flatulence is the reason for global warming. And I'm a big contributer to it.

Hey, I can't help it. I eat a lot of cabbage.

[FIN-S-R]

summer '05 coolest in a long time in oklahoma. winter '05-'06 coldest in a long time. Summer '06 hottest in a long time. Winter '06-'07 warmest in a long time. Must be ice age followed by global warming cycle!!!