Saddam Executed

[edbassmaster]

Im one of those people on the fence with the death penalty...but he had to go. But if you ask me they should have let the victims families stone him or torture him. He went way too easy.

[Troutfisher]

True...it was TOO quick.  I mean, think of what he did to his victims!  >

[Guest avid]

Im one of those people on the fence with the death penalty...but he had to go. But if you ask me they should have let the victims families stone him or torture him. He went way too easy.

Hey Ed, just which fence are you sitting on?  Your not sure if you support the death penalty but are ok with torturing someone to death????  curious position dude.

When I'm feeling all intellectual I can't help but think that it's uncivilized to kill someone regardless of how bad he is.  In fact we are one of the few Western nations that still has a death penalty.

But when I look at a particular murder.  Especially one involving a sex perv and a child.  Well, then I have no compassion and say "kill the freak"  So I am definitly ambivalent on this issue.

As far a dictators go, Saddam was pretty good, but not really first rate.  I mean compared to Stalin (now THERE was dictator) or Hitler, he was pretty bush league.  Even that Lunatic in N. Korea outshines him.  I mean over there they have to worship the sob.

So, he's dead, and that's good because it brings absolute closure to his reign of torture and suffering.  I just hope we can bring the whole mess under controll and get our guys out soon, while leaving the country better off.

[Troutfisher]

The hanging of Saddam and the rejoicing of the Iraqis are further proof that our soldiers efforts in Iraq are not in vain.  These people would still be under his cruel fist had we not destroyed him.

[Guest avid]

True...it was TOO quick. I mean, think of what he did to his victims! >

I fully understand the emotional appeal of this sentiment.  If we were talking about my son or my daughter I would go "medievil" on the bastid.

But as the great power in the world.  A country with a proud history of enlightened self interest, compassion for our defeated enemies, moral leadership, and itellectual freedom, can we lower ourselves to excusing barbarism on our part because the object our disdain is in fact a barbarian?

This paradox is at the core of my ambivalence.

What do you think?

[Troutfisher]

A country with a proud history of enlightened self interest, compassion for our defeated enemies, moral leadership, and itellectual freedom

Look, no matter how nice the country of Iraq seemed, the evil man who ran it had no sympathy to his victims. Saddam has had a brutal killing past, and you can pretend it didn't happen, but fact is, it did.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/7/6/231427.shtml

Have a look.  Among other forms of cruel torture, here is a quote of what he did to some of his victims, as it was shown on History Channel a while back.

"Along the way the mesmerized viewer is introduced to acid-drip machines in torture chambers, the mass public hangings of Jews Saddam claimed were spies, and grisly anecdotes of torture to induce false confessions -- with husbands forced to watch the raping of their wives, parents the gouging out of their children's eyes, or the horrific image of a baby flung into a wall to shatter its skull."

I hardly believe having a trial for Saddam and then hanging him is "barbaric" on the part of the American military, for a man who has committed far worse than this.

[Alpster]

.. can we lower ourselves to excusing barbarism on our part because the object our disdain is in fact a barbarian?

This paradox is at the core of my ambivalence.

What do you think?

The question for me is, what is our moral motivation. If the motive of capital punishment is to "repay evil with evil", then it is wrong by definition. However if after a long documented history of pathological murder one must be exsicuted to assure the safety of the masses then it is certainly justifiable. Civilizations cannot exist without order. Excersizing some control over those who would abuse their power is unavoidable. In this country if you don't like your president you can complain openly and adamantly. If you do it loud enough and long enough you will be a celebrity. In pre war Iraq or N. Korea (the Korean dictator insists on being worhsiped) you would be killed for it. Attitude and adgendas are key. JMHO

[roadwarrior]

I'm for justice first, revenge second. When they are one-in-the-same, that's a perfect combination.

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

I support capital punishment.

I would like to bring back public hanging.

In the case of this POS, I would have preferred to have him drawn and quartered.

[Troutfisher]

I too am for capital punishment...if you kill someone, then you deserve to be killed yourself.

[fishingJ]

What makes you so sure saddam and bin laden did anything and it wasn't all bush like a lot of evidence points to?

[Troutfisher]

Well,

1) Saddam has murdered thousands, as did Bin Laden, and our President murdered no one.

2) Saddam and Bin Laden are terrorists, and our President is not.

3) Saddam was a murderous dictator who ruled his country with an iron fist, Osama Bin Laden was a brutal terrorist who executed plans for 9-11-01, and our President attempted to fight and find both of them.

Are you comparing our President to Osama Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein? If so, I'm thoroughly disgusted at your anit-American pride.

[KYbass1276]

What makes you so sure saddam and bin laden did anything and it wasn't all bush like a lot of evidence points to?

Well The video they showed after 9-11 when bin laden was telling his other boneheads how happy the towers fell and all the other rants that he has tried to get across to the world about his jihad and ignorant islamic beliefs, and Saddam gasing his own people and the mass bural sites they have found in iraq pretty much makes me think our boy bush did the right thing. Last I recall I haven't seen Bush order planes to be flown into buildings and mass killings and use of gas on his own people thats pretty much all the evidence I need. Whos side are you on agin :-?

[fishingrulz]

Another one bites the dust.

[preach4bass]

What makes you so sure saddam and bin laden did anything and it wasn't all bush like a lot of evidence points to?

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;

You are joking, right?

If not, get on the next plane that leaves from Canada and is headed to the Middle East and say ignorant things like you just posted. You'll probably change your mind.

You don't have to like our president.  You don't have to like our country.  But comparing the leader of our country the world's most evil terrorist and a mass-murderer, come on, that's crazy.

I hope you were just joking!

[Troutfisher]

You don't have to like our president.  You don't have to like our country.  But comparing the leader of our country the world's most evil terrorist and a mass-murderer, come on, that's crazy.

Exactly...if you don't like it here, leave!

[Grey Wolf]

He deserved his fate !

The question I ask is why we were there in the first place ?

We have not completed our vendetta concerning over 2000 lives lost in 2001 here at home.

Why did we not finish our mission in Afganistan before we went into Iraq ?

Our country will never be able to have complete closure over the murder of our own people until we bring Bin Laden to justice.

[hi_steel_basser]

He deserved his fate !

The question I ask is why we were there in the first place ?

We have not completed our vendetta concerning over 2000 lives lost in 2001 here at home.

Why did we not finish our mission in Afganistan before we went into Iraq ?

Our country will never be able to have complete closure over the murder of our own people until we bring Bin Laden to justice.

This is the most intelligent post so far. Personally, I would have sentenced Saddam to death by BB gun. If we charged a buck a BB, we could pa off the national debt. Also, we didn't go there for the reasons that most people asume. Originally, we were after OBL(don't really think the name deserves to be caps), but somehow we wound up destabilizing a country that was already close. IMHO, and I said the same before the war, we are there for processed dinosaur bones. Now we are stuck in a mess. All because we didnt stick to the task at hand, catching obl.

[Water Dog]

[move]"What makes you so sure saddam and bin laden did anything and it wasn't all bush like a lot of evidence points to? "[/move]

I think he may be serious and if so I am not too surprised. President Bush and his Administration have faced a non-stop mainstream media blitz to pick them apart from day one. Uncle Walter set the agenda back in the 60ties and 70ties and I got sucked in like most everyone else. Fortunately there is other media now that is more fair and balanced, "FOX" for one and talk radio in the good old US of A. It's hard to blame someone living in the far North. Living in Canada would be like growing mushrooms in the basement, feed 'um BS and keep them in the dark'. These are a people who have agreed to allow their Government to confiscate their guns for gosh sakes! :

;D ;D ;D I'm going to say you're kidding right? ;D ;D ;D You're putting us on. ;D ;D ;D

Otherwise you would come off really poorly informed but that is something that you can correct with some good research. Read some of 'Troutfisher's' links. I am gratified to see a 'youngun' as well informed as he is!

Please avoid 'MoveOn.Org' for information, this is a website funded by George Soros who like militant Islam wants to bring down this Country. The NY and La Times are about the same. The Alphabet networks have an agenda. Leave our Universities out of your search, that is the only place left in the World where Communism thrives. Well maybe in Venezuela's where left-wing President, Hugo Chavez, is trying to establish himself as the new 'Castro' in our hemisphere. There are plenty of bad guys around, the USA is not one of them.

We are the 'Shining City on the Hill', 'Give us Your Tired, Your Poor, Your Hungry' .... We have nothing to apologize for and much to be proud of. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian President has openly called for Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth. He is one of the leaders of Militant Islam who is another nutcase that is waving around the threat of nuclear weapons and will have to be dealt with. Mahmoud has to realize that there is a stopping point, hopefully, his own people will take care of him. It is tough for them as individuals to face down the barrel of a gun of a despot.

I would prefer for us to use the CIA or perhaps encourage commando units of Israeli secret police service, the Mossad, to take out Mahmoud. Now that's a politically incorrect smart weapon that is effective. ;D Fight the evil devils on their terms. ;D

Also taking out the vicious Muslim Clerics who are leading and preaching militant Islam would go a long way toward defusing jihad theology.

Oh and bin laden, he is about like the groundhog that eats my beans, one day he will stick his head up and

Our boys ain't forgot him......... ;D

[Troutfisher]

Thank you for the intelligent post Water Dog, and the kind words about me...I appreciate it. You speak true words in your post, and especially be sure to avoid MoveOn.org, a site run by left wingers built primarily to down our President. Never listen to the Starbucks sipping Hollywood celebrities who sit around all day and down our Government, our President, and our Country as a whole. If you want the best information that there is, ask a soldier who is fighting overseas about how the war is going.  I for one am proud to be American, and like I said in an earlier post, if you don't like it, then leave, because there are people lined up who would give anything to have a home in the U.S.!

[K_Mac]

True...it was TOO quick. I mean, think of what he did to his victims! >

I fully understand the emotional appeal of this sentiment. If we were talking about my son or my daughter I would go "medievil" on the bastid.

But as the great power in the world. A country with a proud history of enlightened self interest, compassion for our defeated enemies, moral leadership, and itellectual freedom, can we lower ourselves to excusing barbarism on our part because the object our disdain is in fact a barbarian?

This paradox is at the core of my ambivalence.

What do you think?

My first reaction to the conviction and hanging was, justice has been done. He clearly deserved what he got, but I think avid makes a great point. Webster defines ambivalence as, a simultaneous attraction toward and repulsion from an object, person, or action. This sums up how I feel about this execution, or maybe any execution, very well. I do not rejoice in the death of another human being, and am afraid that government sanctioned killing does put us in the position of using a barbaric punishment to penalize a barbaric act. Alpster is also absolutely right that it is the Government's responsibility to maintain order. As avid said it is a paradox that is not easily resolved.

[fishingrulz]

True...it was TOO quick. I mean, think of what he did to his victims! >

I fully understand the emotional appeal of this sentiment. If we were talking about my son or my daughter I would go "medievil" on the bastid.

But as the great power in the world. A country with a proud history of enlightened self interest, compassion for our defeated enemies, moral leadership, and itellectual freedom, can we lower ourselves to excusing barbarism on our part because the object our disdain is in fact a barbarian?

This paradox is at the core of my ambivalence.

What do you think?

My first reaction to the conviction and hanging was, justice has been done. He clearly deserved what he got, but I think avid makes a great point. Webster defines ambivalence as, a simultaneous attraction toward and repulsion from an object, person, or action. This sums up how I feel about this execution, or maybe any execution, very well. I do not rejoice in the death of another human being, and am afraid that government sanctioned killing does put us in the position of using a barbaric punishment to penalize a barbaric act. Alpster is also absolutely right that it is the Government's responsibility to maintain order. As avid said it is a paradox that is not easily resolved.

While this is true...I would rather be called barbarric and have the SOB dead as opposed to running around or even on trial. Did anyone watch that on T.V. while it was going on? It was a complete joke! Saddam and the judge would start going back and forth at eachother, on a personal level. They were like little 5 year olds. Like toddlers. And you see these freakin nut jobs on the news that actually go to see this guy and kiss his casket and all that garbage. He brainwashed them so well that they were actually grieving over him. And while his death is important...he was so far out of the picture that it was almost like they were making a statement IMO. These same people are just going to flip out more over this. They are gonna try and take his place, but thats part of the reason we are there. People say, what are we there for? and I say its to late now! We went in to set-up their gov't. Our guys died for that misson. Now whether you agree or disagree it doesn't matter because pulling out now means that 3,002 of our soldiers, our countrymen were killed for nothing. NOTHING! This isn't gonna be over anytime soon because its gonna take years for them to get set-up. We can't say oh well if we kill him then the violence is gonna get worse and worse so lets just let him live. We gotta show that we aint takin no **** and your not gonna get away with any of your terrorist BS. Its gotta be stopped. We can't let them run around blowning crap up and flying planes into buildings. We can't sit here as obl or any other terrorist makes a blatant and direct terrorist threat to us and just say...yea right he isn't goin to do anything. What could he do he lives in a cave. You can't watch obl on the news with one of his tapes saying i'm gonna attack here here and here and then just change the channel. These dirty SOBs gotta be stopped. And I say we are over there now so no point in pulling out and having everything we just did go to waste because then its all gonna collapse and the same A-holes are gonna take over again, and then we are gonna be right back in there all over again, trying to get the same thing that we already had started and put 6 years worth of money, blood, sweat, tears, and then just say oh well this is pointless. I don't understand??? The point is you can't sit around while these ba****** wreak havoic and terrorise the world.

[Troutfisher]

While this is true...I would rather be called barbarric and have the SOB dead as opposed to running around or even on trial

Agreed...any decision has critics, yet when the positives outweigh the negatives, then it's best to be called barbaric that have some maniac dictator threatening the U.S.

[Guest avid]

Ok, this post is getting rabid.

First. There is nothing wrong with questioning the government. The fact we have that right while others don't is commendable. But let's not be so grateful that we condemn those who utilize the right.

Second. How on earth can one claim to be "informed" by refusing to listen to opposing i.e. "liberal" points of view. If you only listen to right wing opinions than you are as close minded as the starbucks drinkers you are so fond of insulting. By the way the starbucks on Wall st. does quite well, and I even heard a rumor that George Bush once drank it.

This nonesense that criticizing the government is anit (sic) american is dangerous.

As is this If you don't love America then leave.

This is all the same mindless nationalist crap that was spouted about anti war prostestors during Viet Nam, and the folks who tried to squash the free press (Yes, the Washington post and NY times) from digging out the truth about Watergate.

It is validated recorded history that the excuse for Viet Nam namely the North Vietnamese attack on the US Navy in the gulf of Tonkein never happened and the government knew it. The people of the United States of America were lied to by their president (a democrat), and nearly 58,000 Americans and almost 2 million SE Asians died because of it.

It is also recorded fact that the Republican Parties 'committee to reelect the president' i.e. Nixons reelection campaign had paid thugs who committed felonies including breaking and entering, burglary, illegal wiretap, document fraud, extorsion, obstruction of justice and perjury, to name a few.

If we didn't have an aggressive free press than these crimes would still be shadows.

Personally I believe that Nixons proven knowledge of and tape recorded coverup of the watergate scandal is one of the most serious crimes in American history. Not because people died none did that I recall, but because he threatened the very essence of our constituional democracy. If presidents are not kept under careful scrutiny by a free and unintimidated press than we are no better than the corrupt countries with rigged sham elections who are controlled by their ruling elite.

And I'm sick of the phrase "liberal media" the media is run by corporations. Profit motivated entiites who call Brittany Spears not wearing panties "news".

And while I'm on my rant, let's not forget that the pendulum swings both way.

$40,000,000.00 of taxpayer dollars was spent by the Starr commission trying to bring down the presidency of Bill Clinton. thats 40 MILLION - personally I don't like that he couldn't keep his zipper closed, but history teaches us that most presidents weren't so scrupulous in that area.

So let's have our discussions without demanding that fellow br.comers " Love it or leave" or are "Un American" or other rhetoric designed to stifle the search for truth rather than celebrate it.

avid has spoken

[Guest avid]

What makes you so sure saddam and bin laden did anything and it wasn't all bush like a lot of evidence points to?

The friendship between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family is well documented.

but dude, when you say their is " a lot of evidence" that points to the presidents complicity in 9/11 you got some 'splainin to do.  Otherwise I can't help but think your trolling.

[Troutfisher]

Summed up in one simple opinion, you agree with FishingJ's opinion of

What makes you so sure saddam and bin laden did anything and it wasn't all bush like a lot of evidence points to?

I did not personally attack the Starbucks corporation, in fact, I have drank a Starbucks cappacino myself; I am referring to the fact of left wingers who sit around all day thinking of ways to down the United States of America, and how their opinion is like dirt to me. You have soldiers working their a** off in the middle east to protect this country, and you have people like John Kerry calling our soldiers uneducated. It burns me up.

This nonesense that criticizing the government is anit (sic) american is dangerous.

As is this If you don't love America then leave.

This is all the same mindless nationalist crap that was spouted about anti war prostestors during Viet Nam, and the folks who tried to squash the free press (Yes, the Washington post and NY times) from digging out the truth about Watergate

This "free press" constantly reports negative news stories on the War in Iraq and the War on Terrorism. In fact, in 2005, over 60% of all news stories were negative.

http://www.mediaresearch.org/press/2005/press20051013.asp

As for the positive news? As seen from this quote from the link above,

"Few stories focused on the heroism or generous actions of American soldiers. Just eight stories were devoted to recounting episodes of heroism or valor by U.S. troops, and another nine stories featured instances when soldiers reached out to help the Iraqi people. In contrast, 79 stories focused on allegations of combat mistakes or outright misconduct on the part of U.S. military personnel. "

Here's another good link.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/11/02/the_good_news_from_iraq_is_not_fit_to_print/