Shad Run

[VABasser]

Yeah I'm trying to decide if I should come home this coming weekend or wait til the next one to hit the run at its peak.  Anyone have any ideas?  I guess I'll just play it by ear and see how people are doing this week

[cjbs2003]

With as cold as it is supposed to be and lack of rain, I would say the peak will not hit for at least another couple of weeks... By then the American Shad should show up as well...

[VABasser]

Anyone been able to go out?  This is what the Free Lance Star (Fredericksburg newpaper) said about the river this past thursday

"RAPPAHANNOCK RIVER: Right now, the river has many different species in it. Lee Cherwek of Fredericksburg demonstrated that recently by catching shad, herring, crappie, largemouth bass, white perch and bream all within sight of the City Dock. Ken's Tackle shop reported a good run of white perch from the Old Mill Park area of the river. Bloodworms are working well. There have been reports of decent stripers caught between the Falmouth and Chatham bridges. Shad are also being caught in good numbers throughout the river, mostly around the Fall Line."

Sounds like things should start heating up if they havent already.

[SimonSays]

I went last week friday, at around noonish, people around me were catching Perch but the shad didn't start hitting til a little later.  I was using a small spoon and wasn't having too much luck at first but the guy next to me was using a larger spoon and was catching them let and right.  Gold and Silver both work.  

[Sam]

You put in at Ancarrows on the south side of the James River in Richmond and troll all around the area with the other 1,000 boats and have the guys on the dock yell at you when you get too close.

Using Shad Darts on light line can do well.

Fly fishing does even better.

Way too many people around Ancarrows unless you go during the week and then there are only 500 boats but the same number of fishermen on the docks.

You guys give it a try.  I dont' think the Shad Dart colors make a big difference.

And you can then venture under the I-95 bridge and fish for bass in that area in additon to the area from the bridge towards the small island and then back to Ancarrows.

Look up Ancarrows on a Richmond map. It is called James River Park and it is on page 316 of the ADC Metro Richmond map book.

And don't leave any valuables in your vehicle.  Clean it out before you go.  Take everything out. And don't go alone. Make sure other boaters are there.  If something looks "odd" or "strange" then leave and come back when there are more people.

Have fun.

[armesjr]

Here is the google maps coordinate for ancarrows  

Site 1 @37.519861,-77.418712

[cjbs2003]

The Hickory Shad have arrived in the Occoquan River. They are not thick but I caught a few, the pic is the first of hopefully many to come this spring! Caught it on a tandem rig, red and white shad dart above a gold spoon. Water was a little stained and moving real good, great conditions, just need the weather to warm up and the run should really pick up... GOOD LUCK!

[Micro]

Can anyone tell just WHAT the regulations are for herring and shad in VA? I know there is a moretorium on American Shad in all Virginia waters (tidal and above the fall line) except in some south central Virginia rivers.

But the regulations for the others are beyond me. The DGIF states that that below the fall line, the VA Marine Resources Commission regulates the take and creel limits on American and Hickory Shad. But the VMRC website ONLY address American Shad and is silent on Hickory Shad.

Additionally, the DGIF says the VMRC regulates river herring take (Alewife and Blueback) above and below the fall line, but, again, the VMRC website is silent on this species.

Can you keep Hickory Shad? What's the limit on Alewife and Blueback? I've seen people at Walker's Dam filling coolers with blueback. Is there even a limit??

[cjbs2003]

As I understand it, above the fall line the VDGIF regulates the American and hickory shad, below the fall the the VMRC regulates them. From looking at the web sites and speaking with wildlife conservation officers, American shad are strictly catch and release in all tributaries of the Chesapeake Bay regardless of whether they are caught above or below the fall line. Hickory shad are catch and release below the fall line in all Chesapeake Bay tributaries below the fall line. Above the fall line, which legally is usually a major bridge, ie I-95 bridge, Rt 1 bridge or the 14 St bridge, depending on the river... Hickory shad are usually still catch and release. However, I spoke to WCO Grauer a couple years ago at the Occoquan foot bridge and although he said the law should protect the hickory shad in the Occoquan if they are caught above the I-95 bridge they are fair for the taking with no limit. Be cautioned though, if you plan to use them for bait and get caught with them somewhere else, you'll still be in a lot of trouble so if you keep them take them home to eat not for bait. Better yet, just let them go! As far as alewife and blueback herring go, the limit is 50 combined but the VDGIF and VMRC is recommending you not keep any as they are becoming more and more rare and they are looking into closing the fishery on them as well. Of course landlocked alewife or blueback herring caught from say Lake Anna or the Occoquan Reservoir are not becoming rare, are not covered by those rules and are GREAT for bait! Good luck!

[Micro]

As I understand it, above the fall line the VDGIF regulates the American and hickory shad, below the fall the the VMRC regulates them.

That's what's confusing. Because that isn't always the case. If the fish is anadromous, then its regulations fall under the jurisdiction of the VMRC. Nevertheless, the DGIF does regulate the take of some anadromous fish above the fall line, but so does the VMRC.

For instance, the the DFIG states no-take on Hickory/American shad above the fall line, and defers to VMRC regulations below the fall line. EXCEPT in the Meherrin River below Emporia Dam, Nottoway River, Blackwater River and Northlanding and Northwest Rivers. In these, the DGIF says the take is 10 per day with no size limits. Of course, Hickory/American Shad in these rivers originate from North Carolina waters, not Virginia waters.

For alewife and blueback, creel limits above and below the fall line are set solely by the VMRC.

From looking at the web sites and speaking with wildlife conservation officers, American shad are strictly catch and release in all tributaries of the Chesapeake Bay regardless of whether they are caught above or below the fall line. Hickory shad are catch and release below the fall line in all Chesapeake Bay tributaries below the fall line. Above the fall line, which legally is usually a major bridge, ie I-95 bridge, Rt 1 bridge or the 14 St bridge, depending on the river... Hickory shad are usually still catch and release. However, I spoke to WCO Grauer a couple years ago at the Occoquan foot bridge and although he said the law should protect the hickory shad in the Occoquan if they are caught above the I-95 bridge they are fair for the taking with no limit. Be cautioned though, if you plan to use them for bait and get caught with them somewhere else, you'll still be in a lot of trouble so if you keep them take them home to eat not for bait. Better yet, just let them go!

But where does it state any of this? I can't find it on VMRC's website, and the DGIF's regulations don't say that. The only rivers where keeping Hickory Shad in Virginia is legal are rivers that empty into North Carolina waters. In any other river, there is a strict prohibition on creeling Hickory Shad above the fall line.

The VMRC's website speaks only to the American Shad, stating there is a moretorium on taking them. It says nothing about Hickory Shad or blueback or alewife herring.

As far as alewife and blueback herring go, the limit is 50 combined but the VDGIF and VMRC is recommending you not keep any as they are becoming more and more rare and they are looking into closing the fishery on them as well. Of course landlocked alewife or blueback herring caught from say Lake Anna or the Occoquan Reservoir are not becoming rare, are not covered by those rules and are GREAT for bait! Good luck!

Where is the 50 (per day?) creel limits listed? Again, I can't find it on VMRC's website.

Given the popularity of herring fishing, you'd think the rules would be better published. Like I've said, I've seen guys take what seem like hundreds of blueback off Walker's Dam in the spring.

[SimonSays]

In Richmond all I know is that at Ancarrow's Hickory is legal as is Herring but American Shad are not.  I've see the game warden come through Ancarrow's checking licenses and buckets...its funny cause as soon as the game warden shows up half the area clears out....I need to start taking pictures of the shad I catch...they're pretty darn big...~2lbs and they fight hard =D

[Micro]

It seesm some DGIF officers are not enforcing the regulations as written in the DGIF's fishing guide.

[SimonSays]

I think it's the VMRC that regulate them.

http://www.mrc.state.va.us/regulations/fr530.shtm

Also on this page if you scroll to American Shad it states straight up...

"Illegal to possess American shad caught from the Chesapeake Bay and its tributaries"

http://www.mrc.state.va.us/regulations/swrecfishingrules.shtm

[Sharkbite]

I am on The north Delaware and I am going out for Shad too this year. I got plenty of darts and flutter spoons. I heard a few people picked some up but no run yet just a few straglers

[cjbs2003]

I have a super easy solution... DON'T KEEP HICKORY OR AMERICAN SHAD! Problem solved... They are still recovering, give them a few more years and then maybe think about keeping them. There are plenty of other fish that are not recovering and in fine shape to keep. Write the VMRC or the VDGIF and ask for a Code Book. They are more than happy to mail you one. You cannot rely just on the internet to find laws it says that right on their web sites.  

[cjbs2003]

As far as alewife and bluebacks go... I just cast net and dip net for them to use as catfish bait and striper bait in the Potomac. I take at best 50 during the hole season so I don't think I am hurting their populations. I only fish for them in one small feeder stream off the Potomac. Been doing it for years and they come back every year in the same numbers. But again, request a code book or look at this web site for more info... http://www.dgif.state.va.us/fishing/regulations/new.asp Or if you are still unsure, call your local game warden or VMRC police officer for more info. When I have called they have always been more than willing to answer my questions and were very nice.

[Micro]

I'm not interested in taking shad or herring, I'm only interesting the regulations at this point.

After hours of reading through the relevant sections of the code of Virginia (online in its entirety), and searching through the Virginia Register of Regulations, I found the answer with respect to herring (Effective January 1, 2008)...

4VAC15-360-10. Taking aquatic invertebrates,

amphibians, reptiles, and nongame fish for private use.

A. Possession limits. ...

1. The following species may be taken in unlimited

numbers from inland waters statewide: carp, bowfin,

longnose gar, mullet, yellow bullhead, brown bullhead,

black bullhead, flat bullhead, snail bullhead, white sucker,

northern hogsucker, gizzard shad, threadfin shad, blueback

herring (see 4VAC15-320-25 for anadromous blueback

herring limits), white perch, yellow perch, alewife (see

4VAC15-320-25 for anadromous alewife limits),

stoneroller (hornyhead), fathead minnow, golden shiner,

and goldfish.

So, lets see what 4 VAC 15-320-25 says about anadromous River herring...

Now, see the confusion?

The Regulations on the take of anadromous river herring and Hickory Shad have changed. All the chart does is tell us the VMRC shall set the regulations, which it apparently hasn't done yet, or hasn't published them - otherwise it would be in the registry of regulations, or at the very least available on the VMRC's website. We've gone into 2008 shad/herring season without firm regulations on the take of Hickory Shad below the fall line, and anadromous river herring anywhere.

Whatever rules people are using in these areas are speculative at this point, or based on old regulations.

[SimonSays]

Heya guys, I don't know if you took a look at the site I posted but here it is again

http://www.mrc.state.va.us/regulations/fr530.shtm

It's the regulations regarding American shad which was updated Feb 2008, so it's the most recent regulation.  (This is the VMRC website, not a random source on the internet also)

Just a small snippet....

D.  Possession of American shad by any person permitted in accordance with this section shall be lawful only when those American shad were harvested from the bycatch area. Possession of any American shad harvested in Virginia waters that are outside of the bycatch area shall constitute a violation of this regulation, except as described in 4VAC20-530-32.

Bycatch area being...

"Bycatch area" means those tidal waters of (i) the James River, from the James River Bridge upstream to a line connecting Dancing Point and New Sunken Meadow Creek; (ii) the York River, from the George P. Coleman Bridge upstream to the Rt. 33 Eltham and Lord Delaware bridges at West Point; and (iii) the Rappahannock River, from the Norris Bridge upstream to the Rt. 360 Downing Bridge at Tappahannock.

The rest of the page pretty much says it's legal to have American shad within these bycatch areas to a certain extent...but not outside of these areas.

The question now is...

Where the heck is "James River, from the James River Bridge upstream to a line connecting Dancing Point and New Sunken Meadow Creek"

What I've outlined, of course, only pertains to the Richmond area...

[Micro]

Your interpretation of that chapter will get you in trouble.  You are a recreational fisherman, not a registered commercial fisherman. That chapter deals with commerical fishing.

Bycatch means, for the purpsoes of the law, shad caught accidentally and incidentally to fishing for other species.   A shad taken in these waters while shad fishing isn't "bychatch."

[cjbs2003]

So, again just let everything go and then there is no problem...

[SimonSays]

So, again just let everything go and then there is no problem...

I'm a C&R guy too, but I guess it's just nice to know regulations to help out your fellow fisherman.  In the event someone next to you is mis-informed about keeping a certain species.

Micro - you're right about the commercial fishing, I just figured it would apply to recreation but I guess it doesn't! Thanks for pointing me straight.

What about the other website I posted?

http://www.mrc.state.va.us/regulations/swrecfishingrules.shtm

If you scroll down to American shad it says:

Illegal to possess American shad caught from the Chesapeake Bay and its tributaries

The james spills into the Chesapeake doesn't it? Which would then make it a Chesapeake tributary meaning it'll be illegal to keep any American shad!

[Sam]

Please, please, please do not keep them if you do not know what you are doing.

The Conservations Officers show up at the Ancarrows ramp from time to time and they check your catch.

If you mess up and keep the wrong fish or over the legal limit you will get a ticket.

Please heed Micro's words of wisdom.

Simon, we don't want to visit you on weekends in jail. ;D

[JCrzy4Bass]

Saw a 1lb 5oz Shad come out of the Rapp yesterday.  Unreal!  Never seen one so big.  Guy caught it on a 4" white grub.  I started throwing the same and hooked into a tiny one, maybe 7 inches.  But wow, those things can fight pretty good.  Had a bunch of others pecking the bait.  I parked on River rd and fished the tidal portion at the park there by the Princess Anne Street Bridge.  There were a TON of them jumping.  

I'm mad that I forgot my spoons to use yesterday, I was targeting smallies.  No luck.  The water is too high and all the breaks and boulders are covered up, I was getting snagged left and right cause how strong the current was.  Need to let the river recover some from these rains and get back down to normal levels.

[armesjr]

Anyone going shad fishing this afternoon. i will be at ancarrows around 3 this afternoon.  

[SimonSays]

Please, please, please do not keep them if you do not know what you are doing.

The Conservations Officers show up at the Ancarrows ramp from time to time and they check your catch.

If you mess up and keep the wrong fish or over the legal limit you will get a ticket.

Please heed Micro's words of wisdom.

Simon, we don't want to visit you on weekends in jail. ;D

Lol Sam thanks =D

I don't keep any of the fish I keep, like I said I'm a C&R guy, my interests were more for others in the event they accidentally keep something they're not suppose to

@jay - sorry to hear about the smallies, if ya come down to richmond this friday I think Andrew and I are gonna try for some shad here =D They go for ~2lbs easy here and they fight like mad!