Snakehead caught in Marumscro Lake in Woodbridge, VA

[rondef]

My friend spoke to the VDGIF Game Warden that happened to be at Leesylvania State Park that day. he wrote down the information looked at the fish and informed him that he would get $10 for killing the fish.

[Avalonjohn44]

For whoever asked for the difference btwn snakeheads and bowfins:

http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/fishing/snakehead_id.html

[Avalonjohn44]

I don't see why snakeheads are a huge problem, but bowfin, an extremely similar fish in just about every way is not... I am still waiting to catch one.  I can't wait... I dunno if I'll kill it...

[TrickyVT1887]

I don't see why snakeheads are a huge problem, but bowfin, an extremely similar fish in just about every way is not... I am still waiting to catch one.  I can't wait... I dunno if I'll kill it...

The HUGE problem is that snakekeads are an exotic fish that utilize the same resources as the largemouth bass and other predatory gamefish which could lead to too many predators for a fixed amount of prey. This is evident in bass overcrowded ponds wherein you have too many fish competing for the same resource and the bass rate of growth becomes stunted where it is near impossible to see a fish over 10" to 12". When it comes to Bowfin they are a native fish that has developed its own niche in a community and do not seem to have a negative effect on the bass population.  SNAKEHEADS ARE ILLEGAL TO POSSESS ALIVE IN VIRGINIA IF YOU CATCH ONE KILL IT AND REPORT IT TO VDGIF (540)899-4169

[Avalonjohn44]

I don't buy it, sorry.  I think they'll find a niche and it won't be a problem.  A river is not a closed system like most ponds are.  I think the danger is overblown.  I guess only time will tell.

[A.Do?]

overblown...kinda like those jumping/flying carp? :

[Avalonjohn44]

Or peacock bass.  Another indigenous critter that hasdone no harm despite the hype.  By the way, the LMB and the SMB are non indigenous to most of the waters we fish and catch them in.  What harm have they done?  None.

[btcprince]

I don't see why snakeheads are a huge problem, but bowfin, an extremely similar fish in just about every way is not... I am still waiting to catch one. I can't wait... I dunno if I'll kill it...

Impacts to local fish populations through predation or displacement and competition for food; disruption of native aquatic systems

Transmission of parasites or diseases, including those affecting humans

Potential impacts on local economies dependent on fishing or related resources

^ this is all off the site you posted a link to

[TrickyVT1887]

I don't buy it, sorry.  I think they'll find a niche and it won't be a problem.  A river is not a closed system like most ponds are.  I think the danger is overblown.  I guess only time will tell.

I have stated before there is nothing we can do in the Potomac, there is a reproducing population that was first documented in Little Hunting Creek with angler reports finding them caught as far down as Aquia Creek.  There is no way to get them out of the river but rather to control the spread of the fish, which could devastate some of the smaller fisheries in the state if spread.

Or peacock bass.  Another indigenous critter that hasdone no harm despite the hype.  By the way, the LMB and the SMB are non indigenous to most of the waters we fish and catch them in.  What harm have they done?  None.

Every fishery is different and just because the peacock bass has not harmed one fishery doesn't mean that it won't in another. Fisheries management occurs on a case by case basis which is evident by different creel limits, slots, and size limits at various fisheries. For example a crappie population in a big lake can flourish but in a small pond they out compete the sunfish and bass and will stunt the growth of both species. Correct me if I am wrong but I do not know of any peacock bass fisheries in Virginia and the only one that I know that could sustain them could be the hot side of Lake Anna and there aren't any there that I'm aware of.

[Avalonjohn44]

Impacts to local fish populations through predation or displacement and competition for food; disruption of native aquatic systems

Transmission of parasites or diseases, including those affecting humans

Potential impacts on local economies dependent on fishing or related resources

^ this is all off the site you posted a link to

I know, thank you for pointing that out. I happened to read further,though, and it also says these are possibilities, and they (the officials) don't know if this is the case or not.  There are a lot of maybes, might bes, and could bes, but no definite statements.  

Snakeheads are almost identical to Bowfins in predation, habitat, and other aspects... Bowfins have not impact on Bass.  It seems that if anything, the snakeheads would compete with bowfins.  I'm still not convinced of the doom and gloom end of bass everywhere situation as it's been presented, and many have seemed to swallow hook line and sinker (pun intended).  Just like I have trouble with global warming, people that say George Bush is responsible for 9-11, and folks that believe the Masons are devil worshiping world controlling masterminds... Conspiracy theories and end of the world scenarios stink, and the snakehead threat sounds a lot like a conspiracy theory to me.

[Avalonjohn44]

I have stated before there is nothing we can do in the Potomac, there is a reproducing population that was first documented in Little Hunting Creek with angler reports finding them caught as far down as Aquia Creek.  There is no way to get them out of the river but rather to control the spread of the fish, which could devastate some of the smaller fisheries in the state if spread.

Could, might, maybe... See what I wrote above...

Every fishery is different and just because the peacock bass has not harmed one fishery doesn't mean that it won't in another. Fisheries management occurs on a case by case basis which is evident by different creel limits, slots, and size limits at various fisheries. For example a crappie population in a big lake can flourish but in a small pond they out compete the sunfish and bass and will stunt the growth of both species.

So you are for culling crappies, sunfish and snakeheads.  And small bass.  I don't think that is the way to go.  It goes against survival of the fittest, and ultimately weakens the bass species rather than strengthening it.  

Correct me if I am wrong but I do not know of any peacock bass fisheries in Virginia and the only one that I know that could sustain them could be the hot side of Lake Anna and there aren't any there that I'm aware of.

I was just using the peacock as a general example.  I didn't mean that they were introduced in VA... But they were in FL, along with hundreds of others (Oscars, Ciclids, Peacocks, Snakeheads, Tilapia, and a ton of others).  It hasn't hurt the bassing in FL, from what I've read.  By the same measure, I don't think a single introduction here in VA will affect LMB.

As I said before, the only thing we can do is wait and see.  You can go about it your way, and kill a fish based on some hype, or leave it alone.  I will only kill it if I intend to eat it... And I won't eat anything out of the Potomac...

[TrickyVT1887]

Avalonjohn lets agree to disagree what I was stating was purely that each fishery is different and how some fish can negatively effect a fishery whether its native or not native. As you said that I am for culling crappie, sunfish, and small bass I throughly am if it is to improve a fishery.  Survival of the fittest doesn't always apply and a fishery can suffer from under harvest of fish, take a course in pond or fisheries management and you'll see what I mean.

As far as snakeheads go this is a quote from our department website and a picture of the largest recorded snakehead currently found at 32" and 14lbs which we electrofished for last week, and also found three more fish in the ten pound range that day.

"We have established an in-state toll-free hotline (1-800-770-4951) that anglers can use to report snakehead fish. This number is staffed 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Out-of-state callers should telephone (804) 367-1258. If you think you've caught a snakehead fish, please do not release it. Kill the fish by:

  1. removing the head,

  2. separating the gill arches from the body, or

  3. removing the internal organs and put it on ice as quickly as possible.

Call the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries' hotline."

[kreed]

I'd never heard of them before I read this thread. Just curious of what they looked  like I looked to youtube for some videos. Check this one out.

 Seems too much like a parahna (however you spell it ) to me!

[Derek84]

Here is a GREAT video explaining some of the Potomac situation from both a DNR and an Angler Point Of View...

[Derek84]

O.. and for anybody that doesn't get the earlier reference to Asian Carp and the Dangers of exotic species...

Imagine opening up your 250hp mercury and getting wacked in the face by a 15lb+ fish... Not gonna be a good day...

[cjbs2003]

I honestly don't think snakeheads are going to destroy the Potomac River bass fishery. The habitats of snakeheads and largemouths are quite different. There is so much baitfish(gizzard shad, white perch, golden shiners, banded killifish, small bluegills etc) the list goes on and on for bass and snakeheads to eat... I really doubt snakeheads are going to eat up all the food. I also seriously doubt they will eat the bass themselves or at least eat enough bass to adversely affect their population.

If anything, the introduced snakehead will just add to the community of fish in the Potomac and increase the recreational opportunities in the Potomac. After all, largemouth bass aren't even native to the Potomac.  I could see snakeheads causing problems in a small pond, but in a HUGE body of water like the Potomac it isn't gonna happen. Snakeheads are just 1 of 34 fish species introduced into the Potomac River. I would be more worried about blue catfish than snakeheads in causing problems to the Potomac ecosystem.

Bighead and silver carp, also known as jumping carp are very different than snakeheads. They are filter feeders, feeding on zooplankton and phytoplankton. They reproduce in huge numbers and can simple crowd native fish species out. This diet of theirs also affects yound game fish since zooplankton is their primary food source. Snakeheads do not reproduce in extremely high numbers.

Plain and simple, if you catch snakeheads kill them because that is what the VDGIF wants you to do. But in the end, it is a futile effort to kill them, they are here to stay!

The common carp which has been in the Potomac since the late 1800's and by far makes a bigger mess of it than the snakehead ever will. So, the lesson is, STOP putting your unwanted aquarium pets in your local stream, stop importing live fish for consuption because people can't be trusted to actually eat them and not throw them in the local lake and last but not least, stop importing exotic fish to do God knows what with, only to have a flood come along and introduce them into the local river.

[A.Do?]

As bassin1887 stated, the potomac fishery isn't what everyone is afraid of it's the possibility of the snakeheads spreading to smaller bodies of water.

[Avalonjohn44]

Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree...

[TyTy]

I watched that show on the history channel the other day also. What is the difference between a Snakefish and what we have in Florida, 'Bowfin' or 'Mudfish' (I have heard them called both)?

I call them Mudfish but I have caught a few and those things are NASTY. They thrash around like crazy when you boat them and they have some NASTY teeth.

The whole time I was watching the show I was thinking they were all over FL.

ahhh bowfins, mudfish, grindles, etc....nasty animals and they BLEED so much when hooked. they fight hard. i undestand they are native here, but snakeheads are from SE asia or somewhere that people have let go to breed for food, but have just destroyed the native fish here. save a basses life, kill a snakehead

They are very similar looking and have a nasty set of choppers like a snakehead.

And yes, they do fight hard.  The first few I caught I thought I had the bass of a lifetime on the line.  Luckily someone told me not to stick my fingers in their mouth.  I almost did but thought twice and used pliers.  Before the pliers even touched the mlouth he chomped down on them.  It broke some of his teeth getting the pliers out!!!!!!!!!  That is determination...like a snapping turtle.

I kill them when I catch them simply because with teeth like that they must be predators and eat the same stuff bass do.

[NHBA Charlie]

Posted by: cjbs2003 Posted on: Today at 1:49am

"I honestly don't think snakeheads are going to destroy the Potomac River bass fishery. The habitats of snakeheads and largemouths are quite different. There is so much baitfish(gizzard shad, white perch, golden shiners, banded killifish, small bluegills etc) the list goes on and on for bass and snakeheads to eat... I really doubt snakeheads are going to eat up all the food. I also seriously doubt they will eat the bass themselves or at least eat enough bass to adversely affect their population."

This gentleman got it right. The biggest difference between grindle or bowfin and snakeheads is the manner in which they breathe. Bowfin have gills and lungs. Snakeheads have lungs only! This means that they must come to the surface every so often and gulp air. If they cannot reach the surface in time, they will drown, just like humans. Consequently, they tend to live in very, very shallow water. Unlike bass, who roam all over the lake or river and all up and down the water column, snakeheads tend to stay in a very shallow area, eating killifish and small minnows. Even when larger, they tend to stay in very shallow water.

Our club members catch upwards of 5-10 snakeheads in every Potomac River tournament. All of the fish have been caught in less that two feet of water, including a 6.5# fish. A number of the members can catch the fish at will, because they know in what areas to look for the fish.

Recently, we have been finding juvenile snakeheads spit up by bass in our livewells. This would tend to indicate that rather than the snakeheads feeding on bass, it would be the other way around. Most bass of the size that snakeheads target, are swimming in deeper water. They are generally spawned in 3-5 feet of water and spread out from there. Since snakeheads are most generally found in water shallower than three feet, they really aren't running into many bass. With all the snakeheads held in our clubmember's livewells, we have yet to see a juvenile bass spit up in the livewell.

As for killing the fish, it is against the law to restore a Northern Snakehead to the water in Virginia. This is not an angler decision.....it is the law!  If I see someone return a snakehead to the water, I will turn them in to the VDGIF enforcement folks. We entrust them to manage our resources. We need to follow their regulations!

NHBA Charlie.......

[Avalonjohn44]

Bowfin have gills and lungs. Snakeheads have lungs only!

This is Incorrect.  Snakeheads have both as well.

http://www.invadingspecies.com/Invaders.cfm?A=Page&PID=23

As for killing the fish, it is against the law to restore a Northern Snakehead to the water in Virginia. This is not an angler decision.....it is the law!  If I see someone return a snakehead to the water, I will turn them in to the VDGIF enforcement folks.

I will still not kill one. Not to get political, but some laws are bad laws, and I will not intentionally kill a fish just because somebody tells me too.  I know it is just a fish, and I'm not gonna go to the supreme court fighting it... But just like when I use that little break in the median that says "For Authorized Use Only" - the risk is very low.  Nobody is going to be able to see if I return one.  Or if they somehow do, then they have to prove I returned it snakehead to the river.  

[TrickyVT1887]

Thank you cjbs2003 for your post and you are exactly right about the air breathing part but snakeheads do have gills as well but can only use their primitive lung for breathing so they must surface to breathe. To avalonjohn do as you wish but to myself as well as most other ethical anglers I'm sure it is kind of disheartening to see that a responsible angler would violate a state law which is imposed to help manage a fishery. Just because you do not agree with a law it is no reason to disobey it, just like anglers keeping more than their legal creel or harvesting fish out of season, the regulations are for the benefit of anglers.

[Avalonjohn44]

it is kind of disheartening to see that a responsible angler would violate a state law which is imposed to help manage a fishery. Just because you do not agree with a law it is no reason to disobey it, just like anglers keeping more than their legal creel or harvesting fish out of season, the regulations are for the benefit of anglers.

I'm sorry you are disheartened, but  it makes no sense to violate what I feel is a a higher ethical standard than the VA DIGF.   Unless I intend to eat it, I will not kill anything other than a tick or a mosquito, I feel it is wrong.  The snakehead is not evil, it has not been proven to be a threat, and killing it because it might do something is wrong.  To put me in the same boat as a poacher or an illegal immigrant seine netting every single fish out of an area is insulting and dead wrong.

[rondef]

Guys I did not start this thread for members to argue about killing snakeheads. I started this as an FYI so people wuld know where the fish was caught.

[Avalonjohn44]

Sorry.  It just kind of evolved that way...