PA anglers:need help with Black Moshannon potential threat

[Jerryvon]

Hi folks,

I feel sorry to post my second topic on this site with the following content.

Very recently there is a notice on the PA DCNR website about Black Moshannon. It says due to dam and boat launch repair the lake will be drawn down for 3 feet start from Aug. 23 till at least November.

If you have ever fished there, you will know that it is a unique mountain-top bog lake covered with thick weeds, lotus and lily, and it is a very shallow lake. The center channel is only roughly about 7-8ft deep in the middle during summer. It averages 2-3ft in most part of the lake. It has great bass fishery as well as pickerels and big bluegills. It produces trophy bass, too.

Now the point is, if this lake was drawn down by 3 feet, it is very likely going to shrink to only 1/3 of its current size. In such an extraordinarily hot summer, thousands of fish trapped in pools not connected to channel are going to die, those in the channel are very likely to suffer from de-oxygenation or simply have much greater chance to be anihilated by predators including human. Another brutal result is potential air pollution. There are about 1 feet thickness of plant debris/mud on the bottom around shore, after the drawn down, those mud/debris will be baked by sun directly with dead fish, generating stinky gas. Also, if the lake could not be back to its normal level as scheduled, the water could easily freeze with fish iced in. 

Furthermore, there was not any hearing about the drawn down. I don't see where the fish commission is. Am I over-reacting to it or what? I mean this seems to be common sense that a shallow lake like Black Mo is vulnerable to huge water loss during hot summer, but no one cares. They definitely need to justify the damage this drawn down is going to cause on the eco-system-the whole lake and bog area, on all the creatures living there, not only  fish, but also frogs, turtles, birds, etc. I was told that they were expecting the fishery to come back in two years--so optimistic. Hey but this is not Sayers lake which is accustomed to drawn down every year! Also not Lake Perez which does not have a long history. The unique eco-system of Black Mo deserves a special plan!!! If this drawn down is going to happen, in my opinion, it is going to be a disaster for sure.

Now a couple specific questions regarding this drawn down:

a. Is this drawn down a real necessity?

b. Why 3 feet? Is this based on minimum harm to the lake or simply based on "construction necessity"?

c. Why the whole lake?  There is only one concrete single lane boat lauch at the north side of the lake near the dam. The other three are for canoes/kayaks only. I am actually not seeing any necessity of renovation of all four boat launches. Even there is, it will be very easy to just build a temporary "water fence" around the launch, pump out the water inside the fence and then do the repair. Same thing to the dam. Black Mo dam is not a mile-long dam. To build a temporary water fence and a temporary outflow, re-route the water to circumvent the dam which needs repair, then go back to the Black Mo Creek. Or even build another dam in front of the current one. I know it is easy to just talk, but it is simply so difficult to hang on with such a beautiful and crispy eco-system. Black Mo is like a Florida lake in PA! It is always easy to destroy,though.

d. Why in summer?

e. Is there any scientific support to justify this drawn down? Is it approved by fish commission?

Thank you so much for reading through all my long and awkward writing. It is breaking my heart :'(, as well as many other local fishermen's. Black Moshannon lake is overlooked. It deserves to be cherished.

I hope you can throw in some suggestions about what we bass anglers can do about this issue. I appreciate all input. I will do everything I can to save the black pearl.

Tight lines,

Jerry

[NateFollmer]

Don't worry man, they know what they are doing. They drain lakes all the time and the fish do just fine. You should see Sayer's Dam when they drain it. They drain it twice a year and all the fish get stuck in tiny pockets of water.

They usually drain the lakes down to a certain depth because the damage is at that depth and they need to have the water away from it so they can work.

They have their reasons to do this around this time. I don't know why, but I would guess they want to repair it before ice over. Ice can do damage to dams, maybe it is something that needs fixed now.

The work doesn't have to be approved by the Fish Commission because the DCNR owns that lake, they can do whatever they want with it They know what they are doing though. The fishing is going to suck afterwards, but its better than having the dam break and have the entire lake rolling down the mountain side.

Trust me, it's going to suck for a few months afterward, but it's going to be better for the lake in the long run. Sayer's usually recovers from drainages really quickly and they even do that yearly.

[Jerryvon]

Don't worry man, they know what they are doing. They drain lakes all the time and the fish do just fine. You should see Sayer's Dam when they drain it. They drain it twice a year and all the fish get stuck in tiny pockets of water.

They usually drain the lakes down to a certain depth because the damage is at that depth and they need to have the water away from it so they can work.

They have their reasons to do this around this time. I don't know why, but I would guess they want to repair it before ice over. Ice can do damage to dams, maybe it is something that needs fixed now.

The work doesn't have to be approved by the Fish Commission because the DCNR owns that lake, they can do whatever they want with it They know what they are doing though. The fishing is going to suck afterwards, but its better than having the dam break and have the entire lake rolling down the mountain side.

Trust me, it's going to suck for a few months afterward, but it's going to be better for the lake in the long run. Sayer's usually recovers from drainages really quickly and they even do that yearly.

Hi Nate,

Thanks for the reply.

However I really don't think the Sayers is comparable to the Black Mo. Sayers is a reservoir type lake which is much more accustomed to the drainage since they do it annually, and after the drainage you don't see a lot of weed on bottom because it usually happens during spring ice-out time. Black Mo, however, being a bog type shallow lake, has no such yearly drainage experience, and now is the peak time of vegetation growth there, and water vegetation is the primary fish habitat. After drawn down, lily stems will start to degrade with trapped fish... I wish this was just illusion from my nightmare. But all I know is that the reasoning for the drawn down is because "they did it 15 years ago"...

Talking about fishery, the Black Mo now produces at least one 18incher+ largemouth for almost every summer trip of mine. There are lunkers, too. My personal best largemouth was from the lily there which topped 7 pounds 4 oz/22.5inches. Other than that, crappies over 11inches and bluegills over 10inches are quite common in Black Moshannon lake. I would say the prosperous fishery of current Black Mo is not coming back in at least 6-7 years if any massive fish kill happens.

I know a bad dam could cause big trouble for the whole lake, but there are many ways to fix it, different construction manners, less water drainage and timing...

This lake is just disparate from all other reservoir type lakes. It deserves respect and customized treatment from DCNR even they own it . I hope the DCNR could give reasoning based on scientific evaluation and work out a plan which well suites the bog lake so as to assure no massacre will ever happen.

Attached is a picture of Black Mo in last summer, just to show how thick the vegetation is. After drawn down, places like this will have no water support and fish will die off with other creatures.

[NateFollmer]

The fish will be alright. They aren't going to drain the lake so fast that nothing can get to the deeper areas. The fish are going to move before they get trapped (some may get stuck, but most won't). It's just like what would happen if the lake flooded then returned to normal depth, those fish will get out of those pockets before they get into trouble.

I can't really give you a good answer as to why the DCNR is handling the repair the way they are. I don't think a 'water fence' would work if the bottom is all muck, the water would find it's way under the fence and just fill up again. This was probably the most cost effective method of repair.

[Jerryvon]

The fish will be alright. They aren't going to drain the lake so fast that nothing can get to the deeper areas. The fish are going to move before they get trapped (some may get stuck, but most won't). It's just like what would happen if the lake flooded then returned to normal depth, those fish will get out of those pockets before they get into trouble.

I can't really give you a good answer as to why the DCNR is handling the repair the way they are. I don't think a 'water fence' would work if the bottom is all muck, the water would find it's way under the fence and just fill up again. This was probably the most cost effective method of repair.

I wish I can always be optimistic and hope for the best... Have you been on the Black Moshannon lake? If not, I wish you can plan a trip to there, take a close look at the eco-system and fish the lake, too. But just be hurry.

[Grey Wolf]

Why not contact the DNCR , maybe they can ease your mind.

[fishincop640]

Man I love that lake!!   I fished there last year for a small club tournament and ripped it up!  A lot of guys didn't so they took if off our tour this year!  I still try to make it up at least twice a year!  It's not far from Tyrone but when you have Raystown just down the hill, Glendale up the hill, and Canoe Creek just down the road, ya kinda forget about Black Moshannon.   Keep us posted Jerry

[boatnik13]

3' drop is nothing. Thats common in South central Pa. lakes as work must get done to improve outdated ramps or dams. What you don't want is a 50% or more drop for dam repairs and in some cases they have drained all the water out such as Leaser lake in Lehigh county and Opossum lake in Cumberland county. Two nice lakes sitting 'EMPTY" because they failed to repair it correctly the first time.

[bassfisherjk]

Thanks for the update Jerry.I agree with the other guys,the fish should be ok with the draw down.Also fishincop is right that is an awesome lake to fish,but I don't get there much.I fish Canoe Creek,Glendale alot.

[NateFollmer]

Boatnic is a lake and wildlife genius

I hear Black Moshannon is a fun place to kayak also. Maybe I'll have to make it my first stop once I get one.

[Jerryvon]

Man I love that lake!! I fished there last year for a small club tournament and ripped it up! A lot of guys didn't so they took if off our tour this year! I still try to make it up at least twice a year! It's not far from Tyrone but when you have Raystown just down the hill, Glendale up the hill, and Canoe Creek just down the road, ya kinda forget about Black Moshannon. Keep us posted Jerry

I am currently waiting for response from the Pennsylvania Department of Environment Protection. I am also trying to consult some of the fishery/ecology professors at Penn State University. I will let you know what they say.

[D4u2s0t]

we just had a dam fixed here in town, and everyone was saying the same exact thing, NONE of which proved to be true, and after the lake filled back up, the fishing was as good as ever.

[RobbyZ5001]

I am currently waiting for response from the Pennsylvania Department of Environment Protection. I am also trying to consult some of the fishery/ecology professors at Penn State University. I will let you know what they say.

Who did you contact from Penn State? I may be able to get a response quicker from some of the profs. PM me with who you tried to contact and I will attempt to expedite a response.

I have fished at black mo, and I understand your concern. One way to think of it is the problems will be dealt with now and fixed so it can return to the prosperous lake it is currently. Lake Coyler is in need of a dam repair to fix a leak, and has consistently been dropping in volume for quite awhile. Be happy they are fixing the problems and not throwing it aside.

Lake water drops are for many reasons in different areas of the country. It could be to provide spawning habitat, take spawning habitat away, kill vegetation, water supply, prevent ice destruction, and etc..

Drawing a lake down like Black Mo is never a sure thing, and there could be some related fish mortality as well as a vegetation die off. In my opinion the fixing of the dam and ramps is needed and beneficial, and with time the vegetation and the fish will bounce back.

[NateFollmer]

I am currently waiting for response from the Pennsylvania Department of Environment Protection. I am also trying to consult some of the fishery/ecology professors at Penn State University. I will let you know what they say.

Lake Coyler is in need of a dam repair to fix a leak, and has consistently been dropping in volume for quite awhile.

Completely off topic but the water level is below the crack now (so I was told anyway) so it stopped losing water. I actually think it's fishing a lot better now that it's lost some water than it has in years!

[RobbyZ5001]

I am currently waiting for response from the Pennsylvania Department of Environment Protection. I am also trying to consult some of the fishery/ecology professors at Penn State University. I will let you know what they say.

Lake Coyler is in need of a dam repair to fix a leak, and has consistently been dropping in volume for quite awhile.

Completely off topic but the water level is below the crack now (so I was told anyway) so it stopped losing water. I actually think it's fishing a lot better now that it's lost some water than it has in years!

That's a good thing, because that lake is FULL of cookie cutters.

[Jerryvon]

we just had a dam fixed here in town, and everyone was saying the same exact thing, NONE of which proved to be true, and after the lake filled back up, the fishing was as good as ever.

Good to know this. Thanks!

[Jerryvon]

I am currently waiting for response from the Pennsylvania Department of Environment Protection. I am also trying to consult some of the fishery/ecology professors at Penn State University. I will let you know what they say.

Who did you contact from Penn State? I may be able to get a response quicker from some of the profs. PM me with who you tried to contact and I will attempt to expedite a response.

I have fished at black mo, and I understand your concern. One way to think of it is the problems will be dealt with now and fixed so it can return to the prosperous lake it is currently. Lake Coyler is in need of a dam repair to fix a leak, and has consistently been dropping in volume for quite awhile. Be happy they are fixing the problems and not throwing it aside.

Lake water drops are for many reasons in different areas of the country. It could be to provide spawning habitat, take spawning habitat away, kill vegetation, water supply, prevent ice destruction, and etc..

Drawing a lake down like Black Mo is never a sure thing, and there could be some related fish mortality as well as a vegetation die off. In my opinion the fixing of the dam and ramps is needed and beneficial, and with time the vegetation and the fish will bounce back.

Hi Robby,

Thank you very much! I will pm you as soon as I hit 10th post here. 

[Jerryvon]

Just an update, I finally find a source to forward my concern to the head people who is in charge of it. Haven't heard from him yet.

I hit Black Mo today. First thing I did was to cruise the lake with my depth finder on. Most of the main lake channel is now 7 feet or more, about 1/2 size of the whole lake. Most vegetation area around channel is no more than 5ft deep.

Like I said, I just hope they don't simplify Black Mo as other reservoirs. Dam repair is as important as minimizing ecological damage.

Talking about fishing, it was really windy today. I got a couple bites on frogs but no quality at all until this 19.5incher smoked my jig . I am also seeing more boats and shore anglers very recently.

Then a view of the beautiful lake again, and its "teabag" water.