So Yall Want To Learn Toledo Bend?

[Dougw]

Don't forget to bring food! There are no fish in Toledo Bend!

[Scot Ferguson 2.0]

On 3/17/2019 at 10:57 PM, Scot Ferguson said:

1st day on the Bend on over 20 years. Didn't get out till 230. Caught 10....all up shallow. All on Zoom trick worm...black. San Patricio area. 

Last March I made my first trip to the Bend in over 20 years. To say I had a awesome trip would be an understatement. Caught fish from the time I got there till the time I left. I'm excited to tell y'all I'm headed back March 8-15 (week of full moon). I'm be fishing San Patricio area mostly again cause that where my cabin is. Also will make the run to 1215. I'm praying for rain to put the water up in the bushes.....and pleasant weather. If y'all see a black and red BassCat up in that area......stop and say hello. Wish me luck!!!

[RCCA]

Good luck!  Hope you whack em again. 

[A5BLASTER]

26 minutes ago, Lil Joe The Grinder said:

Good luck!  Hope you whack em again. 

I just hope it doesn't end up on Toledo bend fishing reports on Facebook again this year.

[Scot Ferguson 2.0]

7 hours ago, A5BLASTER said:

I just hope it doesn't end up on Toledo bend fishing reports on Facebook again this year.

Help me out. I guess I don't understand why?

[A5BLASTER]

3 hours ago, Scot Ferguson 2.0 said:

Help me out. I guess I don't understand why?

It's one of the worse places to post fishing info.

 

I mean sure if you want guys to bum rush the areas your talking about and have to deal with all the rude want to be pro anglers that lurk on the Facebook page just looking for free intel, then I quess that's ok.

 

I don't see a problem sharing it here because let's face it, the guys on here are a better class of angler, compared too the vast majority on Toledo bend fishing reports.

 

From my own personal experience with guys from that place. If you tell them, you will end up with a snob fishing the fish you found and have to deal with all the mess that comes with that.

 

For some reason that facebook page just seems to draw out the worst people. That's why I don't post fishing reports to it anymore.

[FlukeJr]

Just got back from Rayburn. Man, that lake is what Toledo Bend used to be before our "experts" killed off our vegetation. Hay grass, milfoil, and loaded with deep water hydrilla.  Bass and shad everywhere, even in January! One of the healthiest biosytems I've ever fished.  I hope we've learned our lesson this time. Pray that our beloved Toledo can return to its natural, fertile state of being. Rant over, I appreciate all of y'all's great updates here. Good luck in 2020!

[Catt]

@FlukeJr learn how to fish structure instead of grass.

 

The fish ain't left, they adjusted, most anglers haven't adjusted.

[Scot Ferguson 2.0]

7 hours ago, A5BLASTER said:

It's one of the worse places to post fishing info.

 

I mean sure if you want guys to bum rush the areas your talking about and have to deal with all the rude want to be pro anglers that lurk on the Facebook page just looking for free intel, then I quess that's ok.

 

I don't see a problem sharing it here because let's face it, the guys on here are a better class of angler, compared too the vast majority on Toledo bend fishing reports.

 

From my own personal experience with guys from that place. If you tell them, you will end up with a snob fishing the fish you found and have to deal with all the mess that comes with that.

 

For some reason that facebook page just seems to draw out the worst people. That's why I don't post fishing reports to it anymore.

Fair enough. I can see where your coming from. That being said.......Id appreciate some good reports from y'all just before I get there.....to help me get on a bite quick???

[FlukeJr]

11 hours ago, Catt said:

@FlukeJr learn how to fish structure instead of grass.

 

The fish ain't left, they adjusted, most anglers haven't adjusted.

I agree with you Catt, but the current fish population is not sustainable without a healthy ecosystem. Shad and other baitfish need vegetation to thrive, and gamefish fry need vegetation to survive their first year of life. Woody cover is neither fertile, nor safe for small fish. Let's all pray the spraying stops and our Toledo returns to normal sooner rather than later.

[JayDub]

2 hours ago, FlukeJr said:

I agree with you Catt, but the current fish population is not sustainable without a healthy ecosystem. Shad and other baitfish need vegetation to thrive, and gamefish fry need vegetation to survive their first year of life. Woody cover is neither fertile, nor safe for small fish. Let's all pray the spraying stops and our Toledo returns to normal sooner rather than later.

How do you explain all of the healthy lakes that have no vegetation? 

[Catt]

@FlukeJr Todd Driscoll head biologist for Toledo Bend & Rayburn disagrees.

 

Watch the whole series ?

 

 

[Dougw]

6 hours ago, JayDub said:

How do you explain all of the healthy lakes that have no vegetation? 

blueback herring and spotted bass....

[Dougw]

21 hours ago, Catt said:

@FlukeJr learn how to fish structure instead of grass.

 

The fish ain't left, they adjusted, most anglers haven't adjusted.

Well sorta.... Time for history lesson.

 

Grass eating carp were introduced into Lake Austin. Big fish were caught in record numbers for the first 2-3 years after that. Then the bite went away and has stayed away. This is not a Toledo Bend size lake. Easily scanned from dam to dam. The fish simply aren't as abundant as they were. It's turned into a wake board mud hole.

 

Grass eating carp were introduced into Coleto Creek power Lake. First 2-3 years big fish were caught in record numbers. Then the bite went away. And stayed away. Recent efforts have yeilded 1.5-2# fish. This is a 3k acre power lake in South Texas. There's only so many places for fish to go, very unlike Toledo Bend. Easily scanned from headwater to dam. The fish ARE NOT THERE.

 

Choke Canyon - Lake dropped 20'. Grass died. First 2-3 years Big fish catches recorded in record numbers until all grass was virtually was gone. Gar took over. 8 years later it's starting to make a come back.

 

Toledo Bend. Grass eradication program implemented coupled with flood conditions eliminated most grass bed on Toledo Bend. First 2-3 years a record of 10#+ fish were caught. Then the catch rate fell off and remains off at this point in time. To suggest that all the fish have changed AND that fishermen can't figure that out in 2-3 years is a bit of an overstatement - my opinion. The fish have changed tactics - they had to. But still... they're fish. They're contained in the same body of water. From grass to what? Wood... Rock... structure vs cover. They, the fish, don't have an infinite set of options to choose from.  

 

For me the pattern is "slap you in the face" obvious. Grass is eliminated followed by 2-3 year spike in catch rates/size followed by down turn in catch rates/size which is maintained until grass is restored - if it's restored. The catch rate declined in each instance AFTER a peak of 2-3 years of phenomenal catch rates. In the case of Lake Austin and Coleto Creek cooling pond the catch rate has never recovered. In the case of Choke Canyon only have the return of both the water level AND the grass has catch rates begun to return to historical normal levels. 

[A5BLASTER]

19 minutes ago, Dougw said:

Well sorta.... Time for history lesson.

 

Grass eating carp were introduced into Lake Austin. Big fish were caught in record numbers for the first 2-3 years after that. Then the bite went away and has stayed away. This is not a Toledo Bend size lake. Easily scanned from dam to dam. The fish simply aren't as abundant as they were. It's turned into a wake board mud hole.

 

Grass eating carp were introduced into Coleto Creek power Lake. First 2-3 years big fish were caught in record numbers. Then the bite went away. And stayed away. Recent efforts have yeilded 1.5-2# fish. This is a 3k acre power lake in South Texas. There's only so many places for fish to go, very unlike Toledo Bend. Easily scanned from headwater to dam. The fish ARE NOT THERE.

 

Choke Canyon - Lake dropped 20'. Grass died. First 2-3 years Big fish catches recorded in record numbers until all grass was virtually was gone. Gar took over. 8 years later it's starting to make a come back.

 

Toledo Bend. Grass eradication program implemented coupled with flood conditions eliminated most grass bed on Toledo Bend. First 2-3 years a record of 10#+ fish were caught. Then the catch rate fell off and remains off at this point in time. To suggest that all the fish have changed AND that fishermen can't figure that out in 2-3 years is a bit of an overstatement - my opinion. The fish have changed tactics - they had to. But still... they're fish. They're contained in the same body of water. From grass to what? Wood... Rock... structure vs cover. They, the fish, don't have an infinite set of options to choose from.  

 

For me the pattern is "slap you in the face" obvious. Grass is eliminated followed by 2-3 year spike in catch rates/size followed by down turn in catch rates/size which is maintained until grass is restored - if it's restored. The catch rate declined in each instance AFTER a peak of 2-3 years of phenomenal catch rates. In the case of Lake Austin and Coleto Creek cooling pond the catch rate has never recovered. In the case of Choke Canyon only have the return of both the water level AND the grass has catch rates begun to return to historical normal levels. 

That makes good sense too me. Except I live here and the lake still has grass.

 

And the fact that my catch rate has gone up year after year doesn't fit are line up with your theory.

 

And Catt is spot on about most anglers not understanding they have to change tactics. 9 out of 10 boats I see still only beat the banks.

 

Bass don't need grass, true they like it and true their prey species do to. Bit let's look at the shad in the big pond. they can do just fine with wood and buck brush. In fact I have seen shad spawn on dock pilings more then anything else.

 

And the big pond has a very healthy shad population as well as sun perch and crawfish. I live here so I get to see it year round.

 

Would I like to see more grass in the lake? Sure would. Do I think the lake has to have grass to be a healthy fishery? Nope not at all.

 

 

[Catt]

@Dougw & @FlukeJr

 

Some of best anglers I know on Toledo Bend do not fish grass & never have.

 

Glen Freeman has won 40% of every BFL tournament held on Toledo Bend & doesn't fish grass.

 

What the grass did was make it easy for the anglers to find fish but unfortunately it also spoiled them. I know dozens of guys who complain about no grass but the truth is they wasn't that good even with grass.

[Smalljaw]

What grass eradication program?  La. DWF sprays for giant salvinia, but my understanding is that it's a contact spray, that kills what it touches, but is harmless once it enters the water column.  If anyone is aware of spraying for hydrilla or milfoil, speak up.  As many bass anglers as are on Toledo Bend, and with the contacts that many have, it would be impossible to keep it a secret.  High water, flood conditions, cyclical changes, see the article in BASSMASTER and you'll know it's not just a local issue.

[Catt]

What y'all need to understand is even with grass you have to fish the structure under it!

 

It doesn't matter if you're fishing grass, timber, brush, or docks the structure is what attracted the bass.

 

Structure is the cake...cover is the icing!

[JMW]

On 1/24/2020 at 8:39 AM, A5BLASTER said:

It's one of the worse places to post fishing info.

 

I mean sure if you want guys to bum rush the areas your talking about and have to deal with all the rude want to be pro anglers that lurk on the Facebook page just looking for free intel, then I quess that's ok.

 

I don't see a problem sharing it here because let's face it, the guys on here are a better class of angler, compared too the vast majority on Toledo bend fishing reports.

 

From my own personal experience with guys from that place. If you tell them, you will end up with a snob fishing the fish you found and have to deal with all the mess that comes with that.

 

For some reason that facebook page just seems to draw out the worst people. That's why I don't post fishing reports to it anymore.

I agree 100%, one post on FB true are false and the next weekend it will be covered with people. I want to learn to fish, not learn to fish everyone else's spots. I enjoy reading the post on here, it gives me a better understanding of where and what to look for and how to fish it.

 

 

[A5BLASTER]

14 hours ago, Smalljaw said:

What grass eradication program?  La. DWF sprays for giant salvinia, but my understanding is that it's a contact spray, that kills what it touches, but is harmless once it enters the water column.  If anyone is aware of spraying for hydrilla or milfoil, speak up.  As many bass anglers as are on Toledo Bend, and with the contacts that many have, it would be impossible to keep it a secret.  High water, flood conditions, cyclical changes, see the article in BASSMASTER and you'll know it's not just a local issue.

While tech correct the spray in a round about way does kill the other grass.

 

What happens is when they spray it, it dies and then sinks and then the dead salvinia smothers out the grass it settled on.

 

Watched with my own eye's from my dock, we use to have a long thick hydrilla patch that ran from our dock out too bout 12 foot of water. The white perch would come up and spawn in it.

 

They sprayed the salvinia and it died and smothered the hydrilla under it. Now the white perch still come up to spawn but they have changed over too holding on the brush and laydowns on the bottom.

[Hez]

On 1/24/2020 at 9:39 AM, A5BLASTER said:

I don't see a problem sharing it here because let's face it, the guys on here are a better class of angler, compared too the vast majority on Toledo bend fishing reports.

 

I am not trying to be rude in any way, but...

 

You do realize that you can view Bass Resource content without being a member, right?  

 

Anyone on the internet (as long as they are not blocked by admins) can view the information in this thread.  

 

 

[A5BLASTER]

2 hours ago, Hez said:

I am not trying to be rude in any way, but...

 

You do realize that you can view Bass Resource content without being a member, right?  

 

Anyone on the internet (as long as they are not blocked by admins) can view the information in this thread.  

 

 

That's true but then again most people don't even know bassreasource exists.

 

And the types of guts I'm talking about don't troll places like this because they know weekend warriors and people on vacation will post it to facebook.

 

I personally know 5 guys that fish the local tourny's. That troll facebook just looking for intel.

[Smalljaw]

12 hours ago, A5BLASTER said:

While tech correct the spray in a round about way does kill the other grass.

 

What happens is when they spray it, it dies and then sinks and then the dead salvinia smothers out the grass it settled on.

 

Watched with my own eye's from my dock, we use to have a long thick hydrilla patch that ran from our dock out too bout 12 foot of water. The white perch would come up and spawn in it.

 

They sprayed the salvinia and it died and smothered the hydrilla under it. Now the white perch still come up to spawn but they have changed over too holding on the brush and laydowns on the bottom.

i don't question your observation, and it may be true that dead salvinia chokes out other grasses when it sinks to the bottom.  The larger question is whether that has any effect at all on the lake as a whole.  There are main lake areas that I fish often, such as Tennessee Bay, the Arnold Flats, the Indian Mounds, the Hausen Flats, that once had abundant hydrilla.  Some still attribute the loss of hydrilla on main lake flats to spraying, and I'm not aware of any evidence to support that theory.

[Catt]

Well how to address this properly is difficult.

 

I've fished this lake for 51 years & have watched it change. I remember back in the early 70s when hydrilla first appeared on the lake & everyone screamed it was going to choke out the entire lake...it didn't.

 

I also remember when giant salvinia first began to spread across the lake. There was a video taken from Pendleton bridge of a gaint "patch" of salvinia floating down the the main lake that was a mile long & a half mile wide. Salvinia will absolutely choke a lake out, it stops all light penetration. 

 

Two natural things stop salvinia, a hard freeze & high salinity levels. There is a weavel that will eat salvinia but the problem is what else will they eat.

 

Many of y'all will remember when coypu, also known as the nutria rats were introduced into our marshes to eat water hyacinth. We all know how that worked out!

 

The problem with salvinia is if one micro-organisms survives it rapidly reproduces.

 

I don't believe anyone is saying  not having "grass" has no effect on the lake. We're saying it ain't the doom & gloom being preached.

 

Many guys claim the lake being voted #1 two years in a row destroyed it due to over fishing. 

 

Others point to 2014 (could be wrong on the yr) which had the highest number of double digits caught & the dropoff following that year. When asked if they believe those fish were there prior they're silent.

 

Every year there's double digit bass caught that are never entered into any program. I've caught 5 double digit bass on Toledo Bend & have never entered a single one. I don't even have selfies with em because cellphones weren't around yet!

 

@Smalljaw every place you mentioned I still do quite well on all of them without grass being there.

 

Rant over! 

[Bass_Fanatic]

Agreed Catt.  The fish are still out there, they didn’t die with the grass.  It has just moved them and changed their routes.  A lot of fish now suspend over creeks and river channels and follow bait.  Those fish are really hard to catch, but they are there due to the Shad.  There are still lots and lots of big bass in Toledo, you just have to adapt how to fish for them.