So Yall Want To Learn Toledo Bend?

[A5BLASTER]

Me and dad didn't do to bad yesterday. He picked up the smallest with a swimbait, I had one throw back with the swimbait, had 1 jump off and landed 1 of the bigger ones with the swimbait, the rest I smashed with the good old trusty crusty baby ribbet on a mid day high wind grass top water bite.

 

Colors used and sizes

 

Swimbait 4 inch- watermelon red and smoke shad I think is the color dad used.

 

Ribbet- baby size with 4 size double take hook- black with red flake.

 

We fished for 3 hours.

 

Bass was holding where pepper grass would meet up with hydrilla are some other type of grass but they for sure was holding in the edges of the pepper grass.

 

Water depth- 3 to 10 foot biggest came at the 10 foot mark on the swimbait.

[Uncle Salty]

On 4/3/2019 at 8:13 AM, A5BLASTER said:

My understanding is the chemical they use won't harm other vegetation. That's what I was told.

 

What does happen is the salvinia dies and sinks and it chokes out the grass it sinks down on to, killing it.

That's what I've heard but what I've seen on Cross Lake and Caddo says BS.

[Paprhead]

Thanks Catt and everyone for all the great info, I have finished reading through all the pages!!  Great insight into Toledo Bend and fishing tactics.

 

My question is on finding "hard spots".  What are they, why do bass like them, and how do you find them?  Thanks again!!

[Progator]

Not on the lake, but wow that wind is crazy.  Be safe

[Dougw]

Welp.... fished Wed.-Sat. With results all over the place. Wed. I stayed in Pirates Cove / Caney Creek. Stayed dirt shallow except for two spots I c-rig on a regular basis. Caught one around 4#s off a dock with the jig. Then 4-5 others throughout the day with the biggest “maybe” two pounds. Pitched a 1/4 oz. jig most of the day. Chunked a 1/4 oz. one knocker quite a bit as well. Worked Caney front to back and just wasn’t happening for me. I figured it was going to be a stellar day when I got to the Army ramp just before 7am on Wednesday and there were already 6 trailers in the parking lot. Got on the water and I’d of swore Oilmans was holding their biggest tournament in the last few years - boats everywhere!!!

 

Thursday... Nasty... front hit around 6am. What there was of it. For all the moaning and mashing of teeth... as storms go it was pretty mild - except. It did rain by golly! Literally rained all day. Hard at times but always raining. I hit the water in the rain aroun 8am. Started out with the 1/4oz jig dirt shallow. Wasn’t long I put a 4#er in the boat and shortly after that another’n Just like it. Took about a half-hour before the next fish came aboard, around 3#s. Then... it got tough. Did the same thing I had been doing for next 1-2 hours - nothing. Pulled out the c-rig on a spot I usually fish wasn’t there long then put a 6#er in the boat. Another hour or so of doing the same thing yielded only one short spot. Pulled up the trolling motor and scooted to the back of Big Bass Marina/Caney creek. Actually my map has it as Canely Creek but the locals say it’s Caney. I say... whatever.

 

Threw the one knocker and jig all over the back of the creek. Did go under the bridge but it was pretty dirty back there so I didn’t stay long. Ended up pulling one more, around 2#s, off a lay down. Ended up with around 18#s in 5 fish for the day.

 

Friday... WINDY!!! Never left Caney/Pirates Cove. Don’t think anyone else did either. Fishing sucked and I was off the water at 1pm.

 

Saturday... A bit of wind early but then it actually hit the infamous “ light and variable”. Went to the dock I’d caught the 4#er on Wed. - not a bite. Went to a near by brush pile I’d gotten a bite at on Wed. - nothing. Pulled up the trolling motor intending to head to Big Bass Marina creek. Got near Blackland Cove and a spur of the moment deal put me at the mouth of that Cove slinging a 1/4 oz. one knocker. Had made a half dozen or so cast when I hooked up. That fish ran me all over the boat. Front to back and side to side. Pulling hard... such that I backed off the drag some to let’er run. Then I was afraid it’d wrap around something I couldn’t see so I tightened the drag back down and took my chances. Finally got it in the boat. Scales at weigh-in said 4.58#s. That was the fightenest 4.5#er I’d ever seen - well maybe except for some 3#ers on Falcon. Stayed in that area for 30-45 mins. And only managed one dink on a 1.5 square bill.

 

shortening this up some.... spent the rest of the day around Big Bass Marina caught a few short fish but nothing close to what I had done there Thursday. Soooo... that’s it until the 11th of next month.

[Catt]

@Paprhead Do you know what the "grey line" on your depth finder is?

 

@Dougw That's pretty good sizes even though the numbers weren't great!

[Paprhead]

Catt, Yes, use to run monochrome finder but now run color.

 

i am confused about what a hard spot is and why bass like them.  Some say rock, some say hump, some say spot where grass is missing.  I really need help to clear the fog.

[Catt]

7 hours ago, Paprhead said:

Catt, Yes, use to run monochrome finder but now run color.

 

i am confused about what a hard spot is and why bass like them.  Some say rock, some say hump, some say spot where grass is missing.  I really need help to clear the fog.

 

Bottom composition change ?

 

It's not necessarily rock, it could be clay, sand, roadbeds, house foundations, or anything besides muck/mud.

 

As to why bass like hard bottoms goes back to basic structure fishing, hard bottoms form breaklines. They can also cause changes to grasslines (thicker/thinner) & long before the grass started growing it changed the timber. Hardwoods grow in different bottom composition than conifers. 

 

I'm ole school & tend to look at things slightly different than young-guns maybe we can convince @Bass_Fanatic to shed some light using high tech electronics.

[Bass_Fanatic]

Ok, here goes.

 

Hard bottom is the single most important feature for offshore fishing.  Even when fish are on points, ledges, piles, etc, they will use hard spots on those features. A brush pile that is sank in muck will rarely if ever be an effective pile, while one on hard bottom may hold fish year round. 

 

Finding hard bottom starts with with looking at your map.  Most hard bottoms on Toledo can be found on the north side of a main lake point or ledge.  I think thi is due to water current flowing north to south, washing the muck off of the north side of stuff creating hard spots.  In creeks, start on the inside edge looking for hard bottoms.  The current running from the back to the mouth creates hard spots on the inside of the structure.

 

Creek bends are also prime areas to find hard spots.  Outside bends typically will have hard spots.  

 

Dont overlook roadbeds either.  They seem to be better fall-spawn, but they are highways (literally) that fish will use to travel and feed on.  Crawfish love gravel and roadbed fit the bill perfectly. 

 

Once you have found areas on a map, idle them with SI and look for bright spots.  Hard bottom has a hot return and will appear much brighter than mud. On you sonar, a hard bottom will show a much thinner line.  Mud bottoms will be thicker lines due to your sonar penetrating the mud. I can say that I catch 90% of my fish on areas that have hard bottom.

[Dougw]

I can c-rig a hard bottom,(to borrow a word from AOC) like, forever. I just am convinced the sound of that 1oz weight draggin' across the bottom will call'em from across the lake! Just have to wait for'em to show up.

11 hours ago, Paprhead said:

Catt, Yes, use to run monochrome finder but now run color.

 

i am confused about what a hard spot is and why bass like them.  Some say rock, some say hump, some say spot where grass is missing.  I really need help to clear the fog.

Throw a c-rig where you think you see a hard spot. Won't take but seconds until you know for sure. I was there for 4 days and had '0' electronics on my boat. I'd get kinna lined up on some of the spots I c-rig and kept slingin' and moving until I felt the bottom I was looking for. Usually didn't take too long.

[A5BLASTER]

1 hour ago, Bass_Fanatic said:

Ok, here goes.

 

Hard bottom is the single most important feature for offshore fishing.  Even when fish are on points, ledges, piles, etc, they will use hard spots on those features. A brush pile that is sank in muck will rarely if ever be an effective pile, while one on hard bottom may hold fish year round. 

 

Finding hard bottom starts with with looking at your map.  Most hard bottoms on Toledo can be found on the north side of a main lake point or ledge.  I think thi is due to water current flowing north to south, washing the muck off of the north side of stuff creating hard spots.  In creeks, start on the inside edge looking for hard bottoms.  The current running from the back to the mouth creates hard spots on the inside of the structure.

 

Creek bends are also prime areas to find hard spots.  Outside bends typically will have hard spots.  

 

Dont overlook roadbeds either.  They seem to be better fall-spawn, but they are highways (literally) that fish will use to travel and feed on.  Crawfish love gravel and roadbed fit the bill perfectly. 

 

Once you have found areas on a map, idle them with SI and look for bright spots.  Hard bottom has a hot return and will appear much brighter than mud. On you sonar, a hard bottom will show a much thinner line.  Mud bottoms will be thicker lines due to your sonar penetrating the mud. I can say that I catch 90% of my fish on areas that have hard bottom.

This is why I only fish coves that are feed by a creek.

[Catt]

@Paprhead Does this clear the fog?

 

Most anglers don't think of Toledo Bend as having current other that when the spillway or dam gates are open but it does.

 

The lake level does not rise simply because it rained, the Sabine River & all the creeks had naturally flowing water before it dam was installed.

 

They still flow into the lake, the spillway at Toro Creek & the generators at the Sabine River dam control the lake level.

 

 If I remember correctly there are 13 flood control gates at Toro Creek, one is always open to a certain degree, otherwise the Sabine below the dam would dry up & the lake would eventually over flow.

 

The natural flow of the river & creeks exposed hard bottoms before the lake was flooded. Since the lake was flooded the current exposed more hard bottoms.

 

Now I'm rambling ?

 

[Paprhead]

Thanks Catt, Fanatic, Doug, Blaster - those comments help quite a bit.  I have read a good bit about hard spots but explanations differ about what they are and where they are located.  Now I need to spend some more time on the lake to learn to locate and id these spots.

 

Keep up the good work!!

[A5BLASTER]

Lil bit of everything on the old swimbait and trap this afternoon.

[Dougw]

On 4/22/2019 at 9:39 PM, A5BLASTER said:

Lil bit of everything on the old swimbait and trap this afternoon.

Welllllllllp......no need going back to Toledo Bend any time soon'!!!! You dun kilt all’a fish in tha’ lake!!!!!!!!!!!!?

[A5BLASTER]

1 hour ago, Dougw said:

Welllllllllp......no need going back to Toledo Bend any time soon'!!!! You dun kilt all’a fish in tha’ lake!!!!!!!!!!!!?

Nawww I had a few throw the hook, so there is one or 10 leavt lmao.

[Dougw]

On 4/24/2019 at 9:07 PM, A5BLASTER said:

Nawww I had a few throw the hook, so there is one or 10 leavt lmao.

Ok then... I'll come back and not catch those instead of not catching the ones you caught!  And... I'm gonna be throwing a 12" swim bait!!! If I'm not gonna catch fish... I'm not gonna catch big fish!

[blanked]

With today’s electronics why not fish areas where fish are located on the graph instead of a hard bottom only 

[Dougw]

27 minutes ago, blanked said:

With today’s electronics why not fish areas where fish are located on the graph instead of a hard bottom only 

Will... once I get my $8,000.00 worth of equipment back from Lowrance- providing it works. Tell me where the fish are in the following images...

 

 

 

 

[Basscat89]

Ok I guess I just can't retain any of this. I fished a wounded war hero tournament last week where I volunteered my boat and time to take a vet fishing, and could not even get this young vet on anything to beat out his personal best of 2.5lbs. At this point I have no clue. Been months since I've been on anything over 2 and barely caught fish last year. I really had high Hope's when I retired here from the Army but now I'm lost. Who's giving lessons in person?

[Catt]

2 hours ago, blanked said:

With today’s electronics why not fish areas where fish are located on the graph instead of a hard bottom only 

 

Pretty sure if you're seeing fish on your graph they'll be on a hard bottom.

[blanked]

I don’t have time to read 329 pages but let’s face it.  Electronics has improved since this thread has started. 

 

Do you fish only graphed fish ?   Why would you not?

7 hours ago, Dougw said:

Will... once I get my $8,000.00 worth of equipment back from Lowrance- providing it works. Tell me where the fish are in the following images...

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t like how your images set .  Can’t see any details 

[Catt]

1 hour ago, blanked said:

 

Do you fish only graphed fish ?   Why would you not?

 

The majority of the bass I catch I don't see on my graph!  ?

 

[Dougw]

1 hour ago, blanked said:

I don’t have time to read 329 pages but let’s face it.  Electronics has improved since this thread has started. 

 

Do you fish only graphed fish ?   Why would you not?

 

I don’t like how your images set .  Can’t see any details 

That's because they're FUBAR - It's a Lowrance option that you have to pay extra for. Keeps folks from spotting fish on your electronics! If you purchase the option they send you a special set of eyewear - Kinna like the old 3D glasses we used to get at the theaters! Glad to see it's still working!

[Amateur Hour]

Having fished with Bassfanatic several times when he says to fish hard spots that is where he starts searching.  He will target these hard spots because that is where the majority of the fish will hold in that area.  Spending time looking at a mucky bottom is not an efficient use of your time, because most of the fish are not there.  When we fish together we mark some fish then start casting the entire area.  Some of the fish we catch are what we saw and some are not. Your down imaging is only looking at a very small area of the bottom.  If you see a few fish on your DI then you can probably bet there are more that you are not seeing.  I am sure he will clear this up if I am off base, but that is how I understand it.   

 

Also, if I am fishing a group of fish with a dropshot I can feel when that bait reaches a soft bottom.  You can feel the weight kind of bog down.  When I feel that I reel it in and throw it back to my target.  I am far, far from being someone that should be giving advice, but that is how I do it.