So Yall Want To Learn Toledo Bend?

[Catt]

21 minutes ago, ArkLa said:

So according to this article I shouldn't even fish in my buddies Tourney around zwolle at the end of the month Bc there's no fish huh? Interesting.

 

That's another one!

The only new tournaments are the Bassmaster Elites all the others, Bass Champ, Bass-N-Bucks, Texas Team Trail, Media, Oilman's, McDonald's & clubs tournaments have been around since the 70s!

 

I've been around to long, seen the boom times & bursted times!

 

Yes some may see a dropoff but only those who can't adapt!

 

Ya only gotta thump me a couple times on my old bald head to get my blood pressure up & this subject does!

[ArkLa]

@CattThe Tourney is not until the 22nd.  My wife and I will race down to it Thursday night to make it there Friday morning to get a day of scouting in before the start of it on Sat.  I wish I could go out there the weekend before to locate some different areas (only been there once).  But boy I can wait it's fun just to be out there. Bout the map you mentioned at the begininng of this thread and have been studying it.

[herruberraschen]

We will see if there is a drop in the weights from last year to this year when the Elite Series fishes this weekend. The Bend has been getting hammered for two years since the #1 ranking from BASS. 

[Catt]

19 minutes ago, herruberraschen said:

We will see if there is a drop in the weights from last year to this year when the Elite Series fishes this weekend. The Bend has been getting hammered for two years since the #1 ranking from BASS. 

 

Define "hammered"?

 

There not anymore pressure now than any other time, ya get a huge number of weekend warriors during pre-spawn/spawn, 4th of July, & other holidays; then peace & quite!

[Clinton john]

Agreed have'nt noticed a that much of a increase due to the lake being made number 1.

 

Like Catt said during certian times the weekend warrior's or thick but after that nice peaceful fishing.

 

[herruberraschen]

My experience is during the weekends. I first got to the area three years ago and in my opinion the number of fisherman has increased, but I respect y'all's opinion(y'all have been here longer than me) During the fall I definitely noticed a drop in the number of boats. 

There has also been a decline in grass which gives the fish less habitat, but they have to stop the giant salvinia so it is a catch-22. 

[Clinton john]

True you will see more on the weekends that's the nature of the beast no matter where you go.

 

As far as the lack of grass true there isn't as much shallow grass as their use to be but it will grow back.

 

Unlike what some people think and say, the bass just didn't up and walk out the lake because the amount of grass in the shallow water is down this year, they just adapted and when to diffrent spots most staying deeper to spawn.

 

 

I will go ahead and throw something out here that i been holding close this year.

 

Don't look for grass along the bank look for grass in the 10 to 15 foot depth on flats.

 

I can sit on my porch like I'm doing right now and can see where there is five diffrent grass lines in that water depth and I see boats pass over it all day and nobody fishes it.

 

Matter of fact there are three boats banging the bank right now in my cove and not one of them even acted like they knew the grass was there and I can guarantee you there are bass on it right now, because right before dark they will come off it to feed on the sand bar that's twenty yards from it and the bar is only 3 foot deep.

[Strikeking]

So, I gotta admit, I got a few laughs out of some of the responses here.  

I'm definitely not a biologist.  In fact, I'm not very good at science.  

I'm not a plug, lol.  That's pretty funny tho.

 

Guys, I'm no different than the rest of you really.  But here are some facts that I didn't include in that article.

 

1.  On March 27 2016 there were over 120 Sharelunkers reported.  On that same day in 2017 there were just over 60.  This came from The Toledo Bend Lunker Bass Program.

 

2.  Let's say that there are 1,000 boat ramps at Toledo Bend.  If every ramp has 20 bass harvested from it every day that weigh between 5-10lbs, that's 20,000 a day.  140,000 a week.  Over 51,000,000 per year.  No lake can sustain that.

 

For two years in a row this lake has been rated #1 in the US.  Just because you catch 5 with a total weight over 20 doesn't mean the lake is fine.  There are probably 200,000 lakes in the US where you can catch a 20lb bag.

 

I counted over 100 boats in Housen on a Wednesday.  People were there from all over the country.  Your lake, whether you want to admit it or not, is getting absolutely pounded.  I didn't write that to start a fight, or offend anyone, or to try to portray myself as a fish biologist.  But that lake, to me, did not fish like the lake that is ranked #1 in the world.  Not even close.  Especially with the new moon.  It should have been lights out all over the lake.

 

Either way, I had a great time.  People were awesome, and the lake is beautiful.  Tight lines.

[Catt]

@Strikeking

 

Let me correct your false numbers with real facts.

 

May 2015-May 2016 there were 139 bass over 10 lbs entered into the Toledo Bend Linker Program which is totally different from the ShareLunker program.

 

The ShareLunker program is bass over 13 lbs so your numbers are a total misrepresentation!

 

Ya ever fish a McDonald's Big Bass Splash?

 

There is easily over 1,000 boat entered on a given day & of that number 70% of the boat failed to weigh a single fish!

 

Hardly a "pounding"!

 

I have the results from every tournament held on Toledo Bend since 1999; reference Lakecaster Magazine.

 

From all these tournament results again 60-75% never weigh a single fish over 5 lbs.

 

As for the lack of grass I fished this lake before hydrilla, milfoil, & coontail...we fished timber!

[Strikeking]

How are my numbers false, lol?  I posted real facts.  Twice as many sharelunkers last year as there are this year.  You posted numbers from the "linker" program (I assume that was a typo) but you didn't post where you got that info, or what the current numbers are to date for this year.

 

You think I'm wrong, that's fine.  I hope I am, too.  If I'm not, and your lake ends up destroyed, you'll have only yourselves to blame.  Not the people who tried to warn you.  The fact is there are a lot of locals who agree with you, that I'm totally wacked out of my head.  But there are just as many who think I'm right, that the lake is nowhere near as good as it was.  So maybe the answer is not that I'm completely right or wrong, but somewhere in between.

 

Thanks for the response.  Good luck this year.  

 

 

[Catt]

18 minutes ago, Strikeking said:

How are my numbers false, lol?  I posted real facts.  Twice as many sharelunkers last year as there are this year.  You posted numbers from the "linker" program (I assume that was a typo) but you didn't post where you got that info, or what the current numbers are to date for this year.

 

You think I'm wrong, that's fine.  I hope I am, too.  If I'm not, and your lake ends up destroyed, you'll have only yourselves to blame.  Not the people who tried to warn you.  The fact is there are a lot of locals who agree with you, that I'm totally wacked out of my head.  But there are just as many who think I'm right, that the lake is nowhere near as good as it was.  So maybe the answer is not that I'm completely right or wrong, but somewhere in between.

 

Thanks for the response.  Good luck this year.  

 

 

You posted absolutely false numbers about the ShareLunker Program!

 

The ShareLunker Program has only 570 entries since 1986 & never ever had 120 in any single year, so that makes your numbers totally fictitious!

 

Toledo Bend has only 7 (13#+) entries in the ShareLunker Program!

 

Lake Fork has 257 entries since 1986!

 

My number are from the Toledo Bend Lunker Program...Google it!

 

Your other numbers are completely made up while mine can be verified!

 

You've gave no links backing your claim...none!

 

Come back with facts & we will talk!

 

Have a nice day

[Strikeking]

Here is the exact place where I got my info from:

https://www.facebook.com/Toledo-Bend-Lunker-Bass-Program-164436250355762/

 

And here is the exact post (I took a screenshot of it for you)

 

You're not citing your facts, you're just posting them like I did.  I took mine from a reputable organization, from your own conservation officers, and from anglers on Toledo Bend like Lance Duff, Rusty Grantham, and Chip Genaro.  

 

I cited every claim, you have not.  So show me where you got your info from.  

[Bryanhester]

The Toledo bend lunker bass program and the sharelunker program are totally separate programs !!  Strike king, in an earlier post you started by referencing the sharelunker program and giving the Toledo bend lunker program numbers. I believe this is what the argument is about .. 

[Catt]

@Strikeking

 

.  Let's say that there are 1,000 boat ramps at Toledo Bend.  If every ramp has 20 bass harvested from it every day that weigh between 5-10lbs, that's 20,000 a day.  140,000 a week.  Over 51,000,000 per year.  No lake can sustain that.

 

For two years in a row this lake has been rated #1 in the US.  Just because you catch 5 with a total weight over 20 doesn't mean the lake is fine.  There are probably 200,000 lakes in the US where you can catch a 20lb bag.

 

I counted over 100 boats in Housen on a Wednesday.  People were there from all over the country.  Your lake, whether you want to admit it or not, is getting absolutely pounded.

 

What are these numbers if not fictitious?

 

I gave my references

Toyota ShareLunker Program

Lakecaster magazine

Todd Driscoll; Texas Parks & Wildlife biologist over ShareLunker Program & head biologist over Toledo Bend.

 

[Bass_Fanatic]

According to those numbers Strike King, the lake has produced more 10lb+ fish this year than in 2015, when it was originally ranked number 1.  Last year was not a normal year.

[mpdunne79]

Hello everyone.  Long time lurker, first time poster...  I am fairly familiar with Toledo Bend as I have been going there since i was in my mother's womb (literally), I'm 38.  My father has been fishing the lake since the late 70's and spends the majority of his retired days at the lake at his home not far from Lowe's Creek.

 

I read Mr. Root's editorial on his website. (https://jimrootfishing.com/toledo-bend/).   I must admit I was taken back by it.   When I see "Toledo Bend is being  destroyed", I take notice.  I take statements like that to heart and feel the need to dig into the details.  I visit the lake several times a year and I must admit I've never seen some of the things he describes. In particular the " There are piles, and piles of fish heads in the water.  Remains of largemouth bass 5-10lbs that were caught and filleted".  While I am not naive enough to believe this does not happen.  I do believe this is in the minority of instances.  I'm sure there are folks who do not obey the creel limit established by the SRA nor have the conservation mindset of releasing a larger bass 6#'s or larger, but once again I believe this is the exception and not the rule. 

 

Also, I'm curious to know how the non existence of the grass is exclusively due to spraying for salvinia.  While I could agree the spraying of the giant salvinia contributes to hydrilla die-off, to assert  "...treatment killed all the grass.  And I mean ALL OF IT" is pure conjecture.  I bring this up due to the flooding we observed last year at the lake.  Turbidity in the lake increased and there was very little shoreline vegetation growth in our area last year and thus no filtering mechanism was there.  We used to have hydrilla in the cove where we live, but with the high; turbid water it is gone.  It it my opinion, (I'm not a biologist either...) the the dominant contributor for the decrease of grass is due to the high water and sudden increases in lake level dating back to the end of 2015.  Since the low water events in 2011, there was about 3 years of relatively stable water levels in the lake (I'm looking at data from http://www.toledo-bend.com/toledo_bend/index.asp?request=lakelevelhistory).   Perhaps this allowed for the grass to be as prolific as it was. 

 

As far as the boat traffic and pressure goes... That's March on Toledo Bend... My son fished the High School Bassmaster Open there at the beginning of March.  Yes there were a lot of folks on the lake.   There are multiple big tournaments this time of year (BASS aside).  The Texas and Louisiana Oilmen's tournaments are huge, but this has been the case for 30 years.  The comment about the boat lanes is curious as well.  I've run from Cypress Bend south to Indian Creek without an issue and felt the lanes were well marked and haven't hit anything in the lanes. During the low water there were several initiatives to clean the lanes up.  It would have been helpful to know the area he was running in if indeed it wasn't safe to run there... And "The lake looks to be about 8-10 feet low"??? C'mon... Maybe I misunderstood the comment..

 

As far as the fishing this year goes.... this year has been a little different.  The water level is down from where it was last year, its more inline with historical levels.  The weather has been different this year, also  We didnt have much of a winter down here.  The first week of March we were fishing 70 degree water.  I believe parts of the main lake were above 65 as well.  Perhaps when he was there it was more of a post spawn pattern and that be bass were more finicky. One thing i've learned about that lake is, someone knows how to catch them.  

 

I take some issue with comparing last years lunker program catches to this year directly...  Further, there are differing programs for Toledo Bend Lunker Bass.  Which i believe was a point of confusion between Catt and Strikeking.  The data to which Strikeking is referring to comes from http://www.toledobendlakeassociation.com/lunker-bass-program.html however, their data is incomplete through March 2017 (the FB page must be more up to date).  Heres the link to the "ShareLunker Program" to which I believe Catt is referring http://tpwd.texas.gov/spdest/visitorcenters/tffc/sharelunker/archives/index.phtml?seas=31&Submit=Go.  To say there are half as many 10lb+ bass caught this year compared to last year and that being a basis for the lake being "destroyed" is a bit silly especially if you incorporate 2015's numbers into the discussion. In 2015, a mere 53 10lb+ bass were in the Lunker program (yes I'm being a bit sarcastic) according to the facebook page posted above as compared to 63 for 2017.

 

I'm not sure how many times Mr. Root has fished the lake.  Toledo can be humbling.   Maybe it was the pattern he was fishing, maybe the weather wasnt good and/or maybe he was just fishing the "popular" heavily pressured areas.   His point on conservation is well taken. However, I do believe that situation he says he witnessed (would have been nice to see a picture) is an extreme exception.  

 

2016 was obviously a phenomenal year for big bass on the lake (March 2016 in particular).  Perhaps it was the exception not the rule.  if he doesnt like the lake thats fine, but to have one bad 4 day trip and claim the lake is being destroyed based on some loose facts and selective data is a bit irresponsible given the platform he is using.  

 

My 2 cents...

 

As The l"ake looks to be about 8-10 feet low

[Clinton john]

Getting facts off Facebook is like trying to catch a fart and paint it green.

 

Bottom line is strike king came fish for a few hours in either the worked over popular spots or was way off in his approach and pattern.

 

And the things he stated bout the boat lanes, hundreds of cleaned fish in the water is just hogwash point blank.

 

The fishing in the Bend is just as good as it has been for the last two season's.

 

True the grass is down several factors have to due with that not just the Sylvania being sprayed.

 

True the water level is down, that's life.

 

The fish adapted they didn't go where they normally do, they went other places and or stayed deeper and spawned, that is the reason the amount of 10 pound plus bass being caught is down this year.

 

And let's face the facts gents most and I mean many, let's say 85% of anglers( i grabed that number out the air)don't know how to find and catch bass when they are deeper.

I count myself in that number as well, I do catch bass when they are deep but I could always be better at it.

 

My feelings on the subject gents, they might not sit well with others but then again I'm still catching fish so I can't be that wrong.

 

 

[Catt]

I am acutely aware of Strikeking's confusion with the ShareLunker Program/Toledo Bend Lunker Program & gave him ample opportunity to correct his mistake!

 

All bodies of water experience highs & lows but some have more highs than lows. Tolode Bend is one, so is Rayburn, so is Fork.

 

@mpdunne79 very well worded & welcome

[mpdunne79]

@Catt Thanks for taking the time to read my post.  I know it's a bit long.   It will be interesting to see what happens this weekend.  My son and are going head up there to check it out. 

 

I started reading this thread in 2014 and has helped give me the confidence to move to more of a structure approach instead of beating the bank and only cast at things I can see.  

[RCCA]

I think mpdunne79 should write the articles from now on!  My 2 cents!  Nice job!  

[ToledoMard928]

I started to not post this but what the heck.  I had my camper at Fin and Feather for the month of March and was at the lake 3 of the 4 weeks of March.  I believe I know where Mr. Root may have seen the grave yard he is speeking about.  The fish cleaning station at Fin and Feather is by the boat ramp warf.  Every morining when we would leave out there were fileted fish carcases on the warf, I assume the wave action hitting against the bulk head would wash them on the warf.  The dump location and the warf are just a few feet apart.  It looked bad, but seeing the amount of anglers at Fin and Feather during the spawn I would not say it is the norm, and I did not see any fileted 10 pounders.  Maybe a coulple of 5's, harde to tell when it is fileted.  The cleaning shack was busy, but it is March, it is always busy.  The lake is fishing different for sure; level, warm winter, spraying, who knows what the actual reason is.  Overall we still have had a good spring in our boat and it still takes 25+ to win a tournament. 

[Catt]

We all know for a fact there are a lot of fish caught & kept this time of year.

 

We all know for a fact there are a lot of folks on the lake this time of year.

 

It's been that way for the 48 yrs I been fishing here.

 

As of 4-5-17 the lake level is 169.93, which is 0.517' below the 48 yr average for the month of April of 170.447

 

Most people incorrectly think the normal lake level is 172.0'; 172 is full pool meaning any rise above that is the start of flood stages. The lake can hold more than 172 but now ya gotta have a water release which can or will cause down river flooding.

 

That's what last year march 18 th 2016, the surrounding areas were hit with 26" of rain. All the gates were opened & flooding everything south including I-10.

 

The historical high waters occurred the first two weeks of March or almost dead in the middle of spawn.

 

Think about that & the numbers of double digit bass caught in 2016!

 

 

[RockNReelN]

I will be on Toledo during the 2017 Bassmasters Elite Tourney and I expect it to be like the last 2 Elite events held on Toledo with over 80 pounds to capture the Trophy. Actually I would not be surprised if it takes over 90 pounds to hold that Trophy high and proud.

Quote

Keep on Casting.

 

[RockNReelN]

Last year Van Dam had 96-2 on Toledo

[FishNChip]

Guess I have to wade into this one more time.  Went to the Toledo Bend Lake Association Lunker Bass page hoping to get some historical info.  Unfortunately, they only have print outs for last year and the current year. They did however have a bar graph of lunker bass caught by month from 2012-2016.  Here's my best attempt to read and add up the data.  Please feel free to correct me if my eyes didn't get it right.

 

2012:  26

2013:  69

2014:  59

2015:  118

2016:  139

2017 to date (not on the graph):  69

 

Clearly, TB was on an up trend.  However, it is a natural system and just like the ocean tide will rise and fall. Was TB dead in 2012 with only 26 big bass?  The uptrend in numbers following 2012 suggests obviously not.  Maybe 2016 is the outlier and the lake will never produce that many big fish per year again.  Only time will tell.  As humans we suffer from recency bias.  What happened yesterday we expect to happen again today, and what went down today, we expect again tomorrow.  Just in our nature and, while on occasion that will be the case, typically it will not.