ANTI-spinning reel line twist theory....could it work??

[The Rooster]

I mainly use spinning reels for baits that I either do not crank much such as free falling weightless worms or topwaters that I move with the rod, or for inline spinners that twist the heck out of the line. So it's either hardly any twist from the first two bait types, or a LOT from the last one.

I have tried a lot of things to fight line twist such as bending the wire on the spinner so it doesn't turn as much or using ball bearing swivels, winding the line onto the spool in specific ways (label up, label down, rolling off bottom, rolling off top like a baitcaster) and mostly it's all failed. I still have twist and some reels are worse than others.

I now have a bottle of KVD line conditioner to try, but have not done it yet.

Then this little idea hit me awhile ago.....if you can't get the line NOT to twist when it's coming onto the reel then why not work with it instead??

Imagine if there would be a way that I could make an inline spinner turn in the same direction that the rotor on the reel is turning while winding back in the line. Like two kids twirling a jump rope. The reason it doesn't twist the rope with all that turning is that it's going in the same direction at both ends. So something along those lines, if I can make the spinner do this then while the reel is twisting the line retrieving it, the bait will be undoing it at the same time on the other end.

My idea is to try to bend or warp the blade in some way so that it always causes the bait to rotate in the same direction, the way I want it to turn.

The reel is always going to twist line as it's being retrieved. Inline spinners are almost always going to rotate anyway as they are being retrieved, and it's a 50-50 shot at which way they turn, left or right, I'm just going to try to guarantee they only twist left, or right, whichever way it happens to need to go. So if I can make them work together then at least it would be less twist. If it doesn't work, who knows, I might end up getting more thump from the blades and more bites as a result. It can't hurt to try. What would it do, twist line worse?? I can hardly imagine worse than I already have seen. What do you think??

**EDIT**  I'm going to take inspiration from boat motor props with the cupping of the blades to catch water.  If I can do this to make the blade rotate in the desired direction then I think this has a shot at working.  Who knows, it might turn out to be a good way to make the bait rise up in the water or not rise as much too, if nothing else, just like a prop does to a boat for planing out by lifting the bow or stern.  Hmm.....got some tinkering to do, then some testing.....be springtime before I can put it to the real test though. :-[

[BASSclary]

Getting the lure to rotate at the same speed as the line would be a challenge. Every reel is different.

[RandySBreth]

Most guys that use spinners a lot (Trout guys) already figured out a way to deal with line twist from spinners - either braid or fused superline, then a ball bearing swivel, then a leader tied to the spinner. Your line still gets twisted, but it really doesn't do the horrible same things mono does.

I'd still like to hear the results of your testing though.

[Bassn Blvd]

In jump rope, the rope isn't turning/spinning.  The arms are turning.

[Locked]

All you have to do is hold the spool facing the reel, and wind the line on the same way the bail arm is spinning.

Skip to 1:27 where it is explained

[islandbass]

I still think that the line will twist. The way I address the line twist with inline spinners is that I build mine with the swivel on.

I commend you on your attempt to think out of the box. That was cool. 8-)

[Alpster]

When you pick up to move to another spot, let out 75 yards of line behind the boat and tow the line without a lure. If you bank fish, stretch the line out on the ground and reel it back up through pinched fingers. It's the only thing that works. The line WILL twist, so you have to un-twist it. JMHO

Ronnie

[Grey Wolf]

Keep us informed , it might help to get us through  winter.

[The Rooster]

Getting the lure to rotate at the same speed as the line would be a challenge. Every reel is different.

It won't, I know that. There will still be twist, just maybe not as much.

Most guys that use spinners a lot (Trout guys) already figured out a way to deal with line twist from spinners - either braid or fused superline, then a ball bearing swivel, then a leader tied to the spinner. Your line still gets twisted, but it really doesn't do the horrible same things mono does.

I'd still like to hear the results of your testing though.

Thanks for that info. I've not yet tried superlines so maybe that's the answer.

In jump rope, the rope isn't turning/spinning. The arms are turning.

I believe you're wrong there. Take a long rope or extention cord and turn it on one end like a jump rope. Do it by yourself with no one on the other end. In just a few turns you have twist. With a good bit more turns you have twist bad enough it begins to show. With someone on the other end doing this in unison with you, there is no twist. The rope does turn. As it goes up it is rotating upside down from it's previous position. As it comes down again, it's right side up. Without two people, only one end does this and creates twist. Two people allows the rope to turn at both ends and negates any twisting. Also, if you do this with a short enough rope or cord, say 10' long or less, then you will see that the other end will turn with your turning as well, and the rope/cord will create a spiral in the air as the other end tries to keep up with your end, but it will always be about 1/2 a turn behind.

Now imagine that the long rope is your line, and you have about 100 feet of it out. You'd have to actually stretch out a rope and try this, or ruin a good extention cord to do it. Using regular fishing line will work, but you see the twist effects only after it's happened and gotten bad enough it will wrap on itself.  Using the larger rope or cord shows you why and how it's happening before it gets really kinky, it's easier to see what's going on with the line itself that way.  Instead of the wide arcs you'd swing with your arm in jump rope, turn it in short fast circles like the bail of a spinning reel will do. Watch how fast it kinks up since the entire thing cannot turn at once, same as a fishing line with a bait that does not rotate, the other end stays stationary while the reel end rotates fast and furiously. Line twist abounds!! I tried it with a 10' extention cord held still on one end and it twisted it up good, the end in my hand actually tried to untwist itself after a few spins by spinning in my palm. So then I tried it with some of my wife's yarn using about 10'. After about 50 - 60 turns I let the line hang down in a loop and it began to try to twist and wrap around itself. It most definitely was twisting. It's a soft material too, unlike mono that is probably a bit more stiff. I'd try some mono but I don't have any here that's loose. Need to get some for that experiment I guess.

All you have to do is hold the spool facing the reel, and wind the line on the same way the bail arm is spinning.

Skip to 1:27 where it is explained

I thought of this a while back. Tried it too but it didn't work. I positioned the spool in front of the reel so that it wound directly from the line spool to the reel's spool coming off and going on in the same direction. Made very little difference really. Seamingly on one spool of line it will work very well, and on another it will not work at all. I think that would have to do with the way it was spooled from the factory. I don't know how it was originally wound onto the spool for selling. So taking it off in possibly a different way than it went on would produce twist automatically. Based on that, I may not EVER be able to get twist out of the line by doing simple things during spooling or while fishing (other than dragging line as one person has suggested, so far that's all that's ever worked for me too).

I still think that the line will twist. The way I address the line twist with inline spinners is that I build mine with the swivel on.

I commend you on your attempt to think out of the box. That was cool. 8-)

I'd like to build some of my own spinners, just so I can have custom colors, as well as possibly a built in swivel. Until now, I've just used a ball bearing snap swivel and changed spinners as I wanted a different color. Seams that the swivel, regardless of how freely it will spin when held in your hand, still lets the line twist up. Maybe it's these Pflueger reels I've been using for the last 3 years.....I never had this much trouble with the Abu Garcia Cardinals I had before them, and I never used to use a swivel with a spinner at all then :-? (Got a new Shimano Symetre now, maybe I won't have trouble anymore ).

When you pick up to move to another spot, let out 75 yards of line behind the boat and tow the line without a lure. If you bank fish, stretch the line out on the ground and reel it back up through pinched fingers. It's the only thing that works. The line WILL twist, so you have to un-twist it. JMHO

Ronnie

This is what I'm doing now, and it's the only thing that works. Guess I still will have a backup plan incase the spinner idea doesn't work very well.

Keep us informed , it might help to get us through winter.

Hmmm.....winter might be over here before I even try it. Guess I could run down to the river to try out a few of them inbetween wind chills of 20^o like it is here today. ;D

[J Francho]

Seems the simplest solution is a quality swivel.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Alpster's right, the best you can hope for where line twist is concerned is to manage it and minimize it. 

[Raul]

I 'm not the greatest fan of snap-swivel combos except for in-line spinners, a good quality snap-swivel reduces notably the line twist.

[J Francho]

Alpster's right, the best you can hope for where line twist is concerned is to manage it and minimize it.

I agree, but he's talking about lures that inherently twist the line.  The only good way to manage that is a swivel.

You want to see twist?  Side-spin casting a centrepin will wreck a spool in minutes, without swivels.  I use two in my terminal rig - one to mange the twist from the cast, and another to manage the leader twisting in current.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Alpster's right, the best you can hope for where line twist is concerned is to manage it and minimize it.

I agree, but he's talking about lures that inherently twist the line. The only good way to manage that is a swivel.

You want to see twist? Side-spin casting a centrepin will wreck a spool in minutes, without swivels. I use two in my terminal rig - one to mange the twist from the cast, and another to manage the leader twisting in current.

This is why I prefer Panther Martin in-line spinners. The blade turn very freely minimizing twist. Roostertails are the worst and Mepps are in the middle IMO.

[farmpond1]

Alpster's right, the best you can hope for where line twist is concerned is to manage it and minimize it.

I agree, but he's talking about lures that inherently twist the line. The only good way to manage that is a swivel.

You want to see twist? Side-spin casting a centrepin will wreck a spool in minutes, without swivels. I use two in my terminal rig - one to mange the twist from the cast, and another to manage the leader twisting in current.

This is why I prefer Panther Martin in-line spinners. The blade turn very freely minimizing twist. Roostertails are the worst and Mepps are in the middle IMO.

Yes, I like Panther Martin's the best.  I disdain Roostertails for both line twist and because half the time I can't get them to even spin at all-especially at lower retrieve speeds.  I'm no lure designer but why don't more spinners employ a weighted keel to keep their bodies from turning?

[The Rooster]

Some Roosters have a body that's triangular shaped, which I think must be to act as a keel.  There are also a few models that have the blade attached the same as a Panther Martin as well.  But I generally use the traditional ones since I can get them without having to order them, they're cheap, and there's loads of colors available.  I've tried cupping the blade some to make them spin more easily, which does work and adds thump to it also, but it also really cranks up the line twist too.  This is why I thought that I might be able to adjust it so it only twists in one direction, the same way my rotor is turning. 

Hey J Francho.....what is this --> Side-spin casting a centrepin??  I've never heard of it.  I know it's unrelated to my question here but was just curious.

[ROCbass]

have you tried any inline spinners with an offset line tie? this should eliminate twist because with an offset tie, you're pulling from slightly above the spinner's center of gravity instead of in line with it's center of gravity, which allows the wire to spin with the blade and twist your line.

[The Rooster]

None from the factory but I have made my own by bending the wire on the Rooster's frame just below the line tie. It didn't work, body still kept spinning. Maybe I didn't bend it enough. Looked sickly bent to me though, was completely out of line with the center, but that's only 1/8 inch or a little more out. I wonder if the overall size of the bait and blades will affect it much??  I use everything from 1/16 oz sizes up to the 3/8 oz ones, with plans to get some 1/2 oz or more too.

[ROCbass]

Here's one with a factory offset line tie. I can personally attest that that I get virtually no line twist with these, and pike love 'em.

http://www.luhrjensen.com/products/spoons--spinners/shyster

[The Rooster]

OK, where you would tie the line at on that lure is a lot farther out of center than what I was able to bend the line tie out to on the Roosters.  That might work better.  Thanks for the link.

[ProCraft Joe]

Why not fish them on a baitcaster instead?

[The Rooster]

Why not fish them on a baitcaster instead?

I do some of them but below 1/6 oz (that's less than 3/16 oz) they don't cast very well.  1/8 and 1/16 are impossible to throw on my reels unless they are spinning reels.

[B-Dozer]

Someone posted last summer about closing the bail by hand, instead of reeling it closed. I tried it, seemed to help. I also either let the line out behind my kayak w/o a lure, or on land and reel it in when the twist show up.

[The Rooster]

I'm religious about closing the bail by hand. Now that is.  Have been since reading it on here a couple of years ago. 

[NBR]

Unless reel design has gotten much, much better twist is an inherent part of a spinning outfit. Currently I don't have a spinning reel less than 15 years old so mine aren't very up to date. I admit I don't use my spinning gear as much as my bait casters but I can't remember the last time I had to drag line to get the twist out.

In my opinion twist comes from a very few reasons.

1. You put it on with twist. Use care when you put the line on the reel. After I start I check for twist after a few cranks.

2. Your bait is spinning. Make sure soft plastics are rigged straight and don't twist. For inline spinners I put a BB swivel on the bait then I have it ready right out of the box.

3. You crank with the drag slipping. If you use the drag to let out line when a fish surges it almost assures you will get some twist. I tighten the drag and back reel. If you want to see how bad this twists line just loosen your drag and crank with it slipping.

4. Something is wrong with your reel. Get it fixed or replace.

Bass don't make huge runs so back reeling is usually not a problem. Pike  make longer runs and can be a problem but my only issue has been some barked knuckles.

Salt water fish are a different issue and there I use the drag.