Extra fast vs. Fast

[J Francho]

That was my point. You need to watch what's going on, not at the tip, but at the line.

I thought you saidit the other way around....NP.

[K_Mac]

But which tip is softer, like easier to bend.

I already knew where rods bent per action

The XF will feel softer and load up quicker with light baits in my experience. My PQ 7' MXF is my favorite baitcast rod.

[Locked]

I thought it was common sense to watch the line. If something is pulling with enough force to bend your rod tip and you can't feel it, there is something wrong.

[00 mod]

This might help some!

http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1141187546/0

[flechero]

The XF has the softer tip- which is why it bends "quicker" or "faster" than the fast, with the same amount of pressure applied.

[flechero]

here it is...

Oh, I see how it is. You custom rod guys think you're so cool...apparently mine was not good enough. ;D

not exactly  ...lol 

there was a delay of about 10 minutes before I hit post on that- when I saw your chart I deleted mine...  the hazards of posting from work.   

[BASSclary]

The XF has the softer tip- which is why it bends "quicker" or "faster" than the fast, with the same amount of pressure applied.

Thats what I thought, until a while ago I said something like that and was told I had it backwards.

[J Francho]

It really depends on the model.  I have a Kistler DS spinning rod that has a silly soft tip, but a medium power that's a lot more hefty than any mediums I own.  Now, all my Avid XF rods, AVC62MXF, AVC68MXF, AVS63MLXF are a bit stiller, even the ML spinner.  They all still only really load up on the top 10" or so, but the Kistler is so fast, its almost not suitable for anything other than straight drops.

[Raul]

One of the problems with action and power rating begins right when you begin trying to compare brand X with brand Y, they may be rated equally but in reality they are completely different animals, even if they were manufactured by the same company ( case: GLoomis/ Shimano )

Let 's put this example, I used to own a Kistler Mag TS MH All Pupose rod, I also own a MBR783C IMX.

Sensitivity ---> IMX

Ligntness ---> IMX

Power ---> rating might be the same but the Kistler had a lot more power than the GLoomis

Action ---> both rated Fast, the Kistler had a firmer tip.

I own a Shimano Crucial M 6 '6 ( CR66M ) spinning rod, also own a GLoomis SJR782 GL2( same length and in theory same power and action )

So both rods are made by the same company, both are same length, action and power rating so they should be pretty much the same in theory, the truth is, the SJR782 feels like a noodle right next to the Crucial.

So comparisons have a part of subjectiveness and a part of measurability and the subjective part is the tricky oart.

[Masaccio]

This comment from Tackletour.net by "Montanaro" explains the basic theory in just a few words, and why you might want to choose an extra fast over a fast (or visa versa) depending on the conditions you will be fishing in.  I paraphrased the original statements.

Extra Fast vs. Fast Tip: 
In regards to sensitivity and how much you will lose with everything being equal?  Nearly imperceptible.

The slower action tip will provide more accurate and consistent casts. An extra fast tip gets to the backbone of a rod faster.  Extra fast action is better for setting hook through plastic or weedguard and for controlling a fish in heavy cover.

[Drop shot-1]

On 2/2/2011 at 9:44 AM, J Francho said:

Just loosen your grip when fishing contact or drop baits - jigs, plastics.  Watch your line, not the tip.  Trust your senses - hooksets are free.

Hooksets  are free! Ok ,that’s stupid! 
it’s free to go fishing? It’s not….

[MiceNReets]

[LrgmouthShad]

7 hours ago, Drop shot-1 said:

Hooksets  are free! Ok ,that’s stupid! 
it’s free to go fishing? It’s not….

[Alex from GA]

Last year my fishing buddy said he liked longer rods for worming so I built a 6-14lb 6'8" fast action rod, used it a few weeks and didn't like it.  I then built a 6-14lb 6'8" extra fast action rod that I love.  BTW I was using a 6'2" extra fast rod for several years.  The rods are all spinning rods on Rainshadow Immortal blanks.  

[CrashVector]

On 2/2/2011 at 10:31 AM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

For starters, the action listed on a rod is subjective, so what the maker considers fast or x-fast can vary. Also, the the fast and extra fast could have similar backbone. Each design has its time and place. If you're fishing small weightless worms, a faster tip might be an advantage. You typically see the XF tips on Drop-Shot and other finesse applications. For everyday T-rig worm fishing a MH/fast action rod is fine. This is largely another case of preference, so there really can't be a winner in this argument.

 

This is the correct answer.

 

I have rods that are fast and others that are xf.  There's no real standardization, so one maker's xf is another's fast.

On 2/2/2011 at 11:44 AM, J Francho said:

Just loosen your grip when fishing contact or drop baits - jigs, plastics.  Watch your line, not the tip.  Trust your senses - hooksets are free.

 My fishing buddy makes fun of me because if I feel a tap and even THINK it's a fish, I set the hook.  I've pulled up all manner of stuff off the bottom, but I've ALSO pulled in more fish than him lol!

 

He loves to tell me "Hooksets are free, but terminal tackle isn't lol"

 

I usually respond by telling him "That hook was dull anyhow from all the fish I've been catching.  Yours are still razor sharp." 😂

On 2/2/2011 at 2:50 PM, BASSclary said:

I thought that if you had two, say, 7' M power rods, with different actions, that one tip would bend easier? :-?

And its not that I read of magical powers in soft tips, Its just I've never really understood if tips can be softer.

 

No.  You are confusing action with power.

 

A rods power describes how much force it takes to bend it...the action determines WHERE that bend occurs.

[MickD]

I strongly recommend that those who are really interested in rod performance and differences set up their own CCS measuring setup.  It is quite easy to do and when you measure all your rods (and blanks for builders) you will develop a gut feel for these issues.  The higher the ERN (effective rod number) and IP (Intrinsic power) the more powerful the rod is.  Regardless of the action.  The higher the AA (action angle, the angle the tip makes when loaded) the faster the action is. Regardless of the power.  

 

After doing a number of rods/blanks and fishing them one will really get to know what he likes and dislikes and will be better able to duplicate in different brands the characteristics he is looking for.  There is a pretty good data base out there and manufacturers are more and more getting into it and measuring their products, but only a few publish their numbers.  Often they will provide them when requested.  

 

And yes, for two rods of the same power, the faster the action the softer the tip. 

 

The confusion comes in when one assumes that because two rods have the same subjective description, say "Medium Heavy Power" that they in fact do have the same power.  The chances of them being the same, even within one brands' lineup, are slim.  For example, one blank manufacturer has different actual power levels, as measured by CCS, for different lines of blanks.  A Medium power drop shot blank will be much less powerful than their Medium power Mag Bass or Spin Jig blanks.  Same for action descriptions.  They will be described differently depending on the "line" they are offering them in.  

 

If you really want to know what's going on , do your own CCS.

[PaulVE64]

A Soft Tip you say?

 

To me it could be either the fast or xfast given similar rod specs. Under testing I would see the  softer tip move before the other against the lightest wt. 

Usually I would expect the xfast to be softer one.

 

 

 

[Drop shot-1]

9 hours ago, LrgmouthShad said:

Don’t worry about it because nobody cares who you are! Clown! With  your goofy emoji video! 

[LrgmouthShad]

10 minutes ago, Drop shot-1 said:

emoji video! 

Help I can’t breathe 

[Crow Horse]

On 2/2/2011 at 2:20 PM, Tin said:

Yup, I usually have a finger on the blank, doesn't matter if I'm using casting or spinning.

Many times during a retrieve & pause, I'll hold the line in between my fingers & watch the line.

[MickD]

19 hours ago, PaulVE64 said:

Usually I would expect the xfast to be softer one.

If the two rods are the same power, it simply has to be this way.  If it is the opposite, the rods were not the same power.  

[J Francho]

Four score and 13 years ago …