Thoughts on rod balancing.

[dulouz]

This past August I got my first custom rod, which was perfectly balanced.  Until then, I had no clue about balancing rods.  I was horrified when I checked some of my standard stock rods.  Lately I have been experimenting with all my rods and reels to see which combos balance the best and I have discovered something.

My stock rods all are tip heavy and my thesis is that it is easier to add weight to the handle than to take it away.  Therefore companies balance rods for heavier reels and if the buyer needs to add weight they can.  If the rod was balanced for a light reel and the buyer wanted a heavy reel it wouldn't work. 

Any thoughts?

[baluga]

if the rod is tip heavy, it will always be tip heavy no matter how light or heavy the reel you pair it with. It will only change where you hold the rod, holding the rod before reel seat will make more tip heavy, holding the rod after the reel seat will make it tip light because weight of the reel serves as the counter weight. In casting rod, you always hold the rod where the reel seats so the balance is not affected by the reel weight. Same thing holds true in spinning if you hold the rod where the reel seats.

[Locked]

The weight of the reel means almost nothing as it is pretty much at the fulcrum of the rod. Changing where you hold the rod changes the fulcrum point. It's best if you think of a fishing rod as a lever. That's probably why people put coins or something at the end of their rods for better balance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever

Think of the purple triangle as the point where you hold the reel.

[BobP]

The only way to test balance is to clamp the one reel you use on it and hold it the same way you fish it.  Practically speaking a rig for moving baits will always be tip heavy so balancing it is not especially useful.  E.g., your perfectly balanced crankbait rod will always be tip heavy while retrieving a crankbait.  Where balance really matters is with static "touchy-feely" presentations like worms, jigs, C-rigs.  If you use a balanced rod/reel for those, you will feel less hand fatigue and more sensitivity.

[dodgeguy]

i balance all my rods under the reel seat.they are level when balanced on your finger this way.even though the total package is heavier when fishing it feels lighter.you feel only the vibrations up your line.you do not have to fight tip weight which deadens feel.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Unless you fish with a slack line, the tip will be heavier the minute you tie on a bait. My preference is to use the intended reel and placement on the blank and handle length to achieve the desired feel. Adding weight anywhere on the blank will affect its ability to transmit vibrations to some extent, but sometimes in necessary. If adding a minimal amount of weight to the very butt of a rod is needed to achieve the goal, the affect of the added weight is minimized. There really is no right or wrong here, personal preference is what a custom is all about.

[J Francho]

Mike, does adding weight to the butt end of the really change things a whole lot?  I mean, it can't really ruin a rod, can it?

[.RM.]

In my experience with neutral balancing a rod. We have done this before adding weight to the butt and actually getting the balance point at the middle (crank) of the mounted reel.

Found the rod to be extremely light feeling and found the feeling of the butt section trying to over run and pass the tip section on a pitch (a lot less tip control on a neutral balanced rod).

http://www.rod-crafting.com/resource/articles/rod-balancing.html

Tight Lines!!!   

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

No, adding a little weight to the butt will not ruin the rod by any means and in the hands of most, probably won't be noticeable. I guess my point is that it's personal preference, and mine is to not add weight unless absolutely necessary.

[dulouz]

The weight of the reel means almost nothing as it is pretty much at the fulcrum of the rod. Changing where you hold the rod changes the fulcrum point. It's best if you think of a fishing rod as a lever. That's probably why people put coins or something at the end of their rods for better balance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever

Think of the purple triangle as the point where you hold the reel.

I don't know much about physics, but if you assume the fulcrum is at the reel seat the rod should balance without a reel. None of mine do.

My custom rods are balanced on the foregrip just infront of the reel, and with the right reel combinations my stock rods do as well.   

Does it really matter or is it all just personal preference?

 

[SirSnookalot]

I hold my spinning outfits different than most people, I have small hands and grip the rod just in front of the reel with my pinky touching the reel.  I like to be ready for a bigger strike and already have my leverage.  I don't notice my outfits not being balance, except 1 and that one has a heavy reel but after a few minutes I'm used to it, so not a big deal for me.

[BrASSmonkey]

This is one of those personal preference questions.  I have heard from many rod builders on both sides of the argument.  Some prefer as light a rod as possible, and balance is secondary, if even that; whereas others will sacrifice some weight in order to achieve the 'perfect' balance.

In the end, it is up to what the customer prefers and values as to which is better.  Some like the reduce torque on the wrist associated with balancing a rod below the reel seat.  Others prefer going for as light a rod as possible, with less regard for the exact balance point.

I prefer to build my contact bait rods for balance since I use much more wrist action with those presentations.  Where I chuck and wind, slightly tip heavy is not too bad for me.

The science suggests that any additional weight reduces the transfer of vibrations through a rod.  Whether this reduction is noticeable to an angler is dependant on the angler, the added weight and the resultant reduction in vibration.

[dave]

I have a 7'4" rod that I use for Carolina rig fishing. It is not the lightest rod to begin with. I put two ounces on the butt. When the rod is lifted straight up vertically, I think, "wow this is heavy". Put it in the "fishing" position and it is amazing how light it feels. Same thing for my flippin stick. All the weight just disappears.

[dulouz]

I have an All Star Pro series rod that I used to use a Pfluger purist on. The purist is very light and the rod always felt very tip heavy.  I recently picked up a Curado 300, which weighs a whopping 10.5 oz.  The rod actually feels lighter with the heavy reel than it does with the lighter reel.  It amazes me how much different a rod feels as you experiment with different reel weights. 

[georgiaken]

At one time, I never cared about it. Now, I am a true convert.

I don't know about the science of vibration transmission, but I can tell you that the fatigue that comes from fishing for 8-12 hours, with vertical/jig type presentations, tends to dull your senses a bit...

I've balanced my rods and there's no way I'm going back (added weight to the butts).

Try it...I wrapped automotive masking tape around my rod butt (to save the rod from the heavier tape), then I taped a bunch of washers together like a roll of quarters and I taped all of that to the butt of my rod with Guerrilla tape. Of course I had to weigh the washers and make sure it actually balanced the rod. It was free, I had all of the supplies and it worked out perfectly.

After fishing that way for over 8 hours, I'm a true believer. All of my rods will be balanced before ice-out.

Try it, your wrists will thank you...

[Georgia Jeff]

I used to own BPS extreme rods that you could add the screw in butt weights to.  This helped to lighten up the tips and make the rod balance perfectly.  It almost seemed lighter in hand at first.  After fishing with it all day though you knew it was heavier however. 

I have since switched to lighter reels (I love my Shimano Chronarch 50MG's) and better balanced and lighter rods and love them.

This is going to be a tougher problem with the split grip rods being all the rage.  Most of them feel tip heavy to me.  Keep in mind I have not held most of the higher end split grips like Dobyn's or G Loomis.

[georgiaken]

I have 4 Kistler Helium rods...they are all extremely light, but they are also tip heavy...

Adding the weight does little to make them feel "heavier" as they are so light in the first place.

You know what's heavy? The Quantum reels that I love so much  ;D

[dodgeguy]

Mike, does adding weight to the butt end of the really change things a whole lot? I mean, it can't really ruin a rod, can it?

john,get the rod balancer by bps.it slips on and off.if you don't like it you can always take it off.i glue mine on after i get them perfect.

[OkobojiEagle]

the tip will be heavier the minute you tie on a bait.

That is, of course, the intended outcome. To feel the bait.

steve

[The Rooster]

I hold my spinning outfits different than most people, I have small hands and grip the rod just in front of the reel with my pinky touching the reel. I like to be ready for a bigger strike and already have my leverage. I don't notice my outfits not being balance, except 1 and that one has a heavy reel but after a few minutes I'm used to it, so not a big deal for me.

I hold mine just like you do, hand completely in front of the reel. But my hand is actually farther forward than even yours is, I have no contact with the reel at all after the cast is made. When casting I put a pinky behind the stem so I don't throw the rod in the lake.

I found a two fold advantage to holding a spinning rod this way. First, I balanced it out much more than before by moving the reel's weight rearward behind my hand, even made the rod "butt heavy" sort of so the tip is extremely light feeling. Second, I can now very lightly rest two fingers on the blank of the rod so I get a lot more contact and feel even very light vibrations. By getting a spinning rod that has a smaller foregrip I can have my hand closer to the reel to actually balance the rod so it's not hard to hold with it feeling butt heavy, but that also takes some of the light tip feeling out of it too. At no time does it ever feel tip heavy though.

Holding it and fishing this way has reduced a lot of hand fatigue for me. Before I used to keep the reel's stem between my fingers always and even that made my hand hurt after a while. By changing my grip and where I grip it I have gotten rid of pain, fatigue, and gained a lot of sensitivity for fishing T-rigs and shakyheads on the bottom.  Also, if the reel made the rod feel too butt heavy then I could always drop down a size in reels to lessen the weight of it some.  This also helps with casting since I have a smaller diameter spool by doing this and that means tighter coils flowing through the bottom line guide so there is less friction (that's another argument completely but trust me a larger diameter spool like what's on those BPS spinners and US Reel spinners does NOT improve casting distance).

[georgiaken]

(that's another argument completely but trust me a larger diameter spool like what's on those BPS spinners and US Reel spinners does NOT improve casting distance).

I started moving my hand forward on the rod for the exact reasons that you mentioned. It works quite well and does seem to increase the sensitivity I feel and reduce hand fatigue.

As for the wide spool reels, I bought the US Reel 240XL...I don't see any difference in casting length at all. I bought mine cheap (but new) on ebay and figured, it has broad line thickness specs and can double as an inshore reel for back bay fishing in the salt. I also use it as a backup reel...casting-wise, I just haven't seen any difference.

[Buzbait88]

A well balanced rod is important in my opinion.  It increases sensitivity and reduces fatigue.  You can fish alot longer throughout the day because you aren't working as hard.  I think this is more important when fishing texas rigs, frogs, shakey heads, drop shots or something where you aren't constantly haveing pull on the rod.  Throwing spinnerbaits I generally have my rod pointed down and the pull of the bait is going to counter react any good balance.  Citrus sticks have introduced a new balance system for their rods, that is interesting because it doesn't change the length of the rod and other than weight you will never know it is added on because you simply replace the butt section with a heavier one or lighter one. 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

(that's another argument completely but trust me a larger diameter spool like what's on those BPS spinners and US Reel spinners does NOT improve casting distance).

I started moving my hand forward on the rod for the exact reasons that you mentioned. It works quite well and does seem to increase the sensitivity I feel and reduce hand fatigue.

As for the wide spool reels, I bought the US Reel 240XL...I don't see any difference in casting length at all. I bought mine cheap (but new) on ebay and figured, it has broad line thickness specs and can double as an inshore reel for back bay fishing in the salt. I also use it as a backup reel...casting-wise, I just haven't seen any difference.

To gain casting distance from a wide-spool reel, you need to have the right guides and placement. This would mean a larger stripper guide, probably placed further out from he reel.

[Dan:]

I prefer my balance point to be just a bit in front of the reel seat.

[georgiaken]

OK...that makes sense...

I won't be messing with my Kistler's though...not over a spare reel

You know what vastly improved my casting distance? Learning how to use a baitcaster and using proper casting technique. I gained about 30% more distance (even with my spinning reels), with much less fatigue...