Think your drag is at it's full potential ?

[bilgerat]

...think again. Try this test.

You'll need a flat stone, such as a sharpening stone, and a Sharpie marker.

Take your drag stack apart and put the felt (or fiber) washers aside. Take the steel washers and, one side at a time, color them with the marker.

Now lay the colored side down on the stone and place your finger on the washer. With decent pressure, swirl the washer in a circular motion about twenty times. See where the marker has been removed ? That's the high spots on the surface of the washer. That's the only part that is making full contact with the felt or fiber washer next to it. Do the other side and you'll likely find the same result.

Drag washers are punched out of a sheet of steel, there will always be a deformation of some sort, you'll never see it with the naked eye. I just did one of my reels (A Pflueger Supreme XT with factory carbon drag) and I improved it dramatically. I lapped each washer on both sides until the marker was gone. I then wrapped tape around a block of wood with the sticky side out and laid the washers on the tape. I then took my dremel type tool with a felt polishing wheel and some metal polish and finished the washers on both sides. Like I said, it made a huge difference.

That was the first of my reels I've done. For those of you that have upgraded to carbon fiber washers or even if you have stock washers, you can greatly improve what you have.

[Jaheff]

Nice write up. Kinda like self "Blue Printing".

[Goose52]

Sounds like a project I should tackle...instead of spending my time outside trying to catch fish in 37 degree water!

Good tip - thanks.

[central.PA.bass]

wow... nice experiment.. thanks!

[Bassn Blvd]

Hmmm, interesting.  Let me ask a question though.  How many fish have you lost due to being stripped because of drag or wrapped up due to drag?

Me? NEVER.  If it has happened to you, then by SHIMANO ;D

[Goose52]

Hmmm, interesting. Let me ask a question though. How many fish have you lost due to being stripped because of drag or wrapped up due to drag?

Me? NEVER. If it has happened to you, then by SHIMANO ;D

Personally, I've never lost a fish due to a drag issue - and that's fish up to 37 pounds - and that's on mostly BPS reels.

Many people like to tune-up or blueprint their reels, even Shimano owners.

Really, you Shimano "brand-droids" should try to rein it in - there was no reason to introduce brand loyalty in this thead.

[SharkHat]

I would add a couple words of caution.  Don't do this with a stone that has not been properly lapped itself.  If the stone itself is not perfectly flat, you won't be gaining anything on the drag washer and could actually introduce more irregularity to the surface.

[Bassn Blvd]

Hmmm, interesting. Let me ask a question though. How many fish have you lost due to being stripped because of drag or wrapped up due to drag?

Me? NEVER. If it has happened to you, then by SHIMANO ;D

Personally, I've never lost a fish due to a drag issue - and that's fish up to 37 pounds - and that's on mostly BPS reels.

Many people like to tune-up or blueprint their reels, even Shimano owners.

Really, you Shimano "brand-droids" should try to rein it in - there was no reason to introduce brand loyalty in this thead.

Goose, Chill out.  Apparently,  my joking around is too serious for your liking.

[baluga]

Cool! Interesting info.!  Thanks for sharing.

[Goose52]

Hmmm, interesting. Let me ask a question though. How many fish have you lost due to being stripped because of drag or wrapped up due to drag?

Me? NEVER. If it has happened to you, then by SHIMANO ;D

Personally, I've never lost a fish due to a drag issue - and that's fish up to 37 pounds - and that's on mostly BPS reels.

Many people like to tune-up or blueprint their reels, even Shimano owners.

Really, you Shimano "brand-droids" should try to rein it in - there was no reason to introduce brand loyalty in this thead.

Goose, Chill out. Apparently, my joking around is too serious for your liking.

Nope - the antics of the Shimano posse are getting really old, and boring, and are one of the only bad things about this board.

BTW - I own Shimano too - but I haven't had any of the koolaid I guess....

[SirSnookalot]

Good tip but I would wind up just breaking my reel, I'll just stick to the dinks I catch with my imperfect drag.

[MaxumBass]

Good tip, but instead of using a stone, I would use various grit wet or dry sand paper on a piece of glass. I use this method to sharpen my chisels.

[Goose52]

Good tip but I would wind up just breaking my reel, I'll just stick to the dinks I catch with my imperfect drag.

I keep thinking I'll tackle drag improvement as a project and it would probably be fun...but I keep putting it off since I mostly don't have any drag issues with the gear I have and for the kind of fishing that I do. Although, one of my 25 year old spinning reels has a drag that needs serviced one of these days - it's sorta either on or off without much modulation... ;D

Good tip, but instead of using a stone, I would use various grit wet or dry sand paper on a piece of glass. I use this method to sharpen my chisels.

Another good tip indeed!  I know some of the folks on the board take this seriously enough to have the metal drag washers surface ground, then polished, and checked for parallel surfaces...I guess you can take this blueprinting pretty far if you want to!

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Polishing the metal drag washers is definetely beneficial to drag performance. I do this regularly as part of a super-tune or drag upgrade. Matched with Carbontex drag washers you'll maximize the design potential of the drag.

[J Francho]

I polish the washers too, but I think the first run of line off the spool undoes most of this, and creates a bed for the carbon fiber washer. I think there's a bigger advantage to polishing when using smoother, stock washers.  The other thing with carbon fiber washers is that they are flexible, and conform to irregularities in the metal washers.

[rubba bubba]

Goti posted on this a while back.  His experience is that polishing the stock drag washers actually outperforms smoothdrag washers.  I don't think he tried a combination of smoothdrag and polished, however.

[Jaheff]

I polish the washers too, but I think the first run of line off the spool undoes most of this, and creates a bed for the carbon fiber washer. I think there's a bigger advantage to polishing when using smoother, stock washers. The other thing with carbon fiber washers is that they are flexible, and conform to irregularities in the metal washers.

X2

[J Francho]

"Outperform" is tough to quantify.  I know it when I feel it, and its not always the same setup for every reel and every application.  That's why its called "tuning."

[rubba bubba]

I agree, just restating what his comments were.  I don't have any experience with either as of yet, so I have no opinion to provide.

[.ghoti.]

I did post on this. I did not lap any of the metal washers. Instead, I put them all on a coordinate measurement system, and verified that they all indeed had parallel flat surfaces. I had a couple which were "out". I put those aside and robbed washers from a "parts reel".

I found, by trial and error, that polishing the metal washers produced a better improvement in drag performance than simply swapping out to carbontex drags washers.

Doing both is even better, but, with the metal washers were polished, the difference between stock fiber washers and carbon washers was subtle.

When I talk about drag performance, I'm talking about smoothness. And about reducing the difference between running torque and start-up torque. I fish with lighter line than most of you guys. I have a dozen baitcasters in my line-up. Two are spooled with #12, 3 with #8, and the rest with #10; all Trilene XL. Using lighter line demands the smoothest running torque, and the lightest start-up torque. I care nothing at all about maximum, locked down drag strength.

I set my drags at 25-33% of rated line strength. So, if I set the running pull at 3 pounds, I want the start-up pull to be no more than 3 1/4 pounds. If the reel won't do that, I tear it down, clean the drag washers again, polish them again, and try it again until I get it there.

Proper application of a good drag grease is also crucial. I use Shimano drag grease. Is there something out there better? Maybe so, but this stuff is a consistent performer, I am accustomed to it, and I know how much of it to use to get what I want.

I know, this sounds like nit-picking, OCD behavior, and I suppose it is. But a guy needs something to do during these long midwestern winters.

[bilgerat]

Hmmm, interesting. Let me ask a question though. How many fish have you lost due to being stripped because of drag or wrapped up due to drag?

Me? NEVER. If it has happened to you, then by SHIMANO ;D

None. Most of my lost fish have been through either my stupidity or circumstances beyond my control; ie a fish wrapping around a submerged stump. I really can't remember ever losing a fish because of a drag failure.

My Pflueger's drag never felt 100 % out of the box. It would have been fine, but I felt it could have been better. I saw the lapping tip on another forum and with being frozen in here, I have a lot of time to kill. I tried it last night and was impressed enough with the results to post about it. Are a majority of drag systems sufficient out of the box ? Probably so, but there's room for improvement. If you are going to spend time and money upgrading your drag, get the full potential.

As I prefer light and ultra light tackle, a smooth drag is especially critical.

As far as Shimanos go, I've had issues with them in the past (mostly bail and binding) that drove me away. There's Pflueger guys, Shimano guys, Abu guys, Daiwa guys. There's enough fish out there for all of us. I still have not ever had a fish pop it's head out of the water to ask me what brand I fish with.

[.RM.]

Hmmm, interesting. Let me ask a question though. How many fish have you lost due to being stripped because of drag or wrapped up due to drag?

Me? NEVER. If it has happened to you, then by SHIMANO ;D

None. Most of my lost fish have been through either my stupidity or circumstances beyond my control; ie a fish wrapping around a submerged stump. I really can't remember ever losing a fish because of a drag failure.

My Pflueger's drag never felt 100 % out of the box. It would have been fine, but I felt it could have been better. I saw the lapping tip on another forum and with being frozen in here, I have a lot of time to kill. I tried it last night and was impressed enough with the results to post about it. Are a majority of drag systems sufficient out of the box ? Probably so, but there's room for improvement. If you are going to spend time and money upgrading your drag, get the full potential.

As I prefer light and ultra light tackle, a smooth drag is especially critical.

As far as Shimanos go, I've had issues with them in the past (mostly bail and binding) that drove me away. There's Pflueger guys, Shimano guys, Abu guys, Daiwa guys. There's enough fish out there for all of us. I still have not ever had a fish pop it's head out of the water to ask me what brand I fish with.

Or if your lapping your drag disk's..... 8-)

[bilgerat]

Hmmm, interesting. Let me ask a question though. How many fish have you lost due to being stripped because of drag or wrapped up due to drag?

Me? NEVER. If it has happened to you, then by SHIMANO ;D

None. Most of my lost fish have been through either my stupidity or circumstances beyond my control; ie a fish wrapping around a submerged stump. I really can't remember ever losing a fish because of a drag failure.

My Pflueger's drag never felt 100 % out of the box. It would have been fine, but I felt it could have been better. I saw the lapping tip on another forum and with being frozen in here, I have a lot of time to kill. I tried it last night and was impressed enough with the results to post about it. Are a majority of drag systems sufficient out of the box ? Probably so, but there's room for improvement. If you are going to spend time and money upgrading your drag, get the full potential.

As I prefer light and ultra light tackle, a smooth drag is especially critical.

As far as Shimanos go, I've had issues with them in the past (mostly bail and binding) that drove me away. There's Pflueger guys, Shimano guys, Abu guys, Daiwa guys. There's enough fish out there for all of us. I still have not ever had a fish pop it's head out of the water to ask me what brand I fish with.

Or if your lapping your drag disk's..... 8-)

;D....but there was the time I launched a jig up into a tree and a 10 pounder stuck his head out of the water and yelled "NICE CAST WUSSY !!" before swimming away. What a basstard.

[baluga]

;D ;D ;D