Fourbizz or any other swimbaiters

[Pond Hopper]

Ok I will bite, I fish farm ponds in Iowa with some big fish(for the area), should I be going with the Mattlures baby bass or bluegill?

[tyrius.]

Ok I will bite, I fish farm ponds in Iowa with some big fish(for the area), should I be going with the Mattlures baby bass or bluegill?

Why not both?   ;D

[bpm2000]

He must have been talking in a big-fish context, correct?  I love fishing the small ones for #s and hits.

No.

When will you people learn that a big bait is not that big at all ? if the fish thinks it can mouth it they will attack it.

Right, hence my comment about the numbers.  Say.. a hudd shad, is going to fit in a lot more mouths than a hudd 8" trout.  #s.  

Or do you really believe a small swimbait is really useless in any and all applications?

[Catt]

If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you always got

It all comes down to what you want  

Do you want numbers of small to medium size bass?

Or do you want numbers of medium to large size bass?

[-Drums-]

Matt Newman caught 28 bass over 8 lbs on consecutive casts throwing a Hudd.

When I read this I thought to myself, "WHAAAAT?  Are you SERIOUS??".  Then I Google'd it.  To anyone interested, here's the story: http://www.westernbass.com/dotcom/library/view.html?id=2683.  Absolutely incredible!

(My apologies in advance for the dupe if this has already been posted at some point on these boards...I obviously missed it if so.)

[Captain Chaos II]

Thanks to the posters for sharing.....great info.  

On the fish tale....man, what a tale.....i really wish they had some pictures to go along with that story.  Almost hard to believe....

[fourbizz]

Ok I will bite, I fish farm ponds in Iowa with some big fish(for the area), should I be going with the Mattlures baby bass or bluegill?

I realize that it is probably your PB in your avatar, but if you have caught some fish of that caliber in those ponds, you could fish any bait that you want. That is a really good picture BTW.

I would fish the Bluegill hands down in a pond.

[Mattlures]

In the actual magazine article there are a bunch of pictures to go with it. Newman filled up several other boats livewells and they held up a bunch of them for the pics. It realy was incedible.

[Pond Hopper]

Ok I will bite, I fish farm ponds in Iowa with some big fish(for the area), should I be going with the Mattlures baby bass or bluegill?

I realize that it is probably your PB in your avatar, but if you have caught some fish of that caliber in those ponds, you could fish any bait that you want. That is a really good picture BTW.

I would fish the Bluegill hands down in a pond.

Nope she is not or never was my PB, one of about a dozen or so fish I have caught over 6 lbs.  One over 7 though(7-12 PB).   I was just looking for a way to target the big fish other than a jig and pig.   There are a few I have seen that were bigger than my PB but sure there are more out there.  

Thanks for the props on the picture  The waders really set off the brown in my eyes ;D

[Randall]

I am goint to list the biggest swimbaiting myths that I hear almost daily.

#1 our bass arent as big as your bass, will those big swimbaits still work? Do you make any smaller ones?

Have you ever looked at the size of a bass's mouth? Trust me your bass are big enough. They are probably untargeted so you dont realize that you even have big bass(6-8lbs) The biggest oldest wisest bass dont go waisting their energy chasing down small meals. Give them a easy big meal and sell it to them properly and they will eat it.

#2 You should buy cheap baits first and see if you like them and then upgrade.

Wrong! buying the best proven baits will only shorten the learning curve. A lot of guys try this and end up giving up because those cheap baits didnt produce or MORE IMPORTANTLY they didnt produce big bass. Of corse not all cheap baits suck but most do.

#3 swimbaits are only good in clear water.

WHAT? No you just have to fish them slower and tighter to cover.

#4 when swimbaiting your only fishing for 1 bite

Wrong. I certainly do not stop fishing after I get my "1" bite. Yes there are times when its tough and you get skunked but the more time you spend on the water fishing them the easier it is to determine when to use them and when to just drag worms. Trust me Mike Long aint fishing for 1 bite. Maybe "1" giant fish but certainly more then 1 bite.

Matt Newman caught 28 bass over 8 lbs on consecutive casts throwing a Hudd.

#5 We dont have trout in our lake we shouldnt use a trout bait.

Now this one isnt that bad but its still wrong. What do you think would happen if they stocked "your non trout lake" with a bunch of 8in trout? every bass from 2.5 lbs up would gorge them selfs on them. Its been proven many times the trout baits work anyware there are bass. BUT that doesnt make them the best choice. If a trout bait was all I had I would throw it if not I would choose a diferent pattern in non trout waters.

4Bizz, Randall care to add to my list

Agree with Matt %100. Nothing to add really but another thing I see happening is that with the popularity and money to be made off swimbaits you will see a lot of people that will try to become overnight experts on swimbaits. Either an expert in fishing them or making them. There is a lot of misinformation and myths being created by many people trying to promote themselves or their new bait companies. Not so much on this site since we have real experts like Matt and Fish Chris here but they are out there. This can cause you to waste a lot of money on baits that aren't up to par or get confused by people that think they know swimbaits and how to fish them. Be careful who you listen to and what you buy and you can save a lot of money, headache and frustration. It's not like a crankbait or worm where you waste a few dollars trying something and forget about it since most good swimbaits cost a little more. I admit to wasting some money myself on bad baits but have learned to buy more quality proven swimbaits and take advice from only those who can prove to me they know what they are talking about.

[Triton_Mike]

I'm a little in left field on this topic in my thinking on swimbaits.  My lake has a TON of 1-2lb dinks and they hit 6 and 7 inch swimbaits like they are candy.  I am having to throw bigger 8 to 14 inch baits to weed out those smaller fish to give those bigger fish a shot at getting to the bait.  Now granted my lake is 90% spots and little spots are 5 times more aggressive than any largemouth you will find so by going bigger I have actually increased my odds of weaning out the smaller fish and targeting the bigger fish.  Yes I still catch alot of 2-3lb fish on 8-14 inch baits but I have actually seen this make a tremendous difference especially with schooling fish.  How many times have you reeled in a dink fish only to find 3 bigger ones following your fish to the boat??  By going bigger I have reversed this trend.  It's not 100% foolproof but the odds are more in your favor in my opinion.  If you want the biggest fish in the school I throw the bigger baits.  I also feel that bigger baits have more drawing power to the bigger fish to get them to move futher distances.  Kinda like putting a T bone on one table and a jar of baby food on the other.  I'd be more apt to draw toward the T bone (bigger meal) than the baby food.  There is NO BAIT that is too big for largemouth.  Thats the first thing you need to get out of your head that a bait is too big.  I remember when I started throwing swimbaits. I thought a 5 inch bait was HUGE.   I gradually worked my way up towards the bigger baits.  It was a transition but you will learn real quick alot about the size of fish in your pond or lake by throwing the bigger baits.  

Matching the hatch is always a good thing but not all shad and gizzards and bream are all the same sizes at any one time of the year.  You will always have 12 inch gizzards just like you will always have 5 inch bream.  I also feel that color is the most overated thing in fishing.  Clear Lake and the Delta are notorious for not having trout in their waters but they are constantly caught on trout colored baits. I caught thousands of swimbait fish on a trout colored bait and I don't have trout anywhere close to my waters.  To me paddle tails like basstrix are NOT what I call swimbaits.  I feel like I do well on swimbaits NOT because I am throwing a swimbait but because I am throwing BIG swimbaits.  Thats the key for me but it may not be the key for everyone on your home lake.  Each lake is different and requires different train of thoughts on how to approach them.  

Just my .02

Mike

[fish-fighting-illini]

Hey don't anyone take offense to this but my experience has been exactly the opposite of most of what has been posted so far.

I throw mainly Storm swimbaits having a lot to do with price. I fish from the bank about 80% of the time and have no way to get most of the baits back. I do use medium heavy braid quite a bit so it helps to be able to pull them loose.

I fish the 3" swim shad's almost exclusively. I've caught hundreds of bass from 1 to 4lbs of this size. I've tried 2" and I've caught probably 10 on that size. The 4" has given me very few bites or fish. I've fished the 6" and have had zero hits or fish on that size. I can't honestly say that I've spent near as much time with the big baits as I need to though.

I honestly belive 100% that the paddle tail is the key as I think it sets up a very suttle vibration just like the tail does of an actual prey fish. Otherwise any big piece of plastic or wood bait or whatever would work but I have had my most success with the swimbait.

I not sure what to think of the differences in information. I still consider myself a novice fisherman so I'm inclined to lean toward you guys that are catching bigger fish. At the moment though what I do seems to be working for me. I don't see people catching the size fish that I am out of the lakes I fish. They very well could be I just don't see them. I just wanted to present a different and objective point of view, not trying to start an argument.

[Catt]

Hey don't anyone take offense to this but my experience has been exactly the opposite of most of what has been posted so far.

I throw mainly Storm swimbaits having a lot to do with price. I fish from the bank about 80% of the time and have no way to get most of the baits back. I do use medium heavy braid quite a bit so it helps to be able to pull them loose.

I fish the 3" swim shad's almost exclusively. I've caught hundreds of bass from 1 to 4lbs of this size. I've tried 2" and I've caught probably 10 on that size. The 4" has given me very few bites or fish. I've fished the 6" and have had zero hits or fish on that size. I can't honestly say that I've spent near as much time with the big baits as I need to though.

I honestly belive 100% that the paddle tail is the key as I think it sets up a very suttle vibration just like the tail does of an actual prey fish. Otherwise any big piece of plastic or wood bait or whatever would work but I have had my most success with the swimbait.

I not sure what to think of the differences in information. I still consider myself a novice fisherman so I'm inclined to lean toward you guys that are catching bigger fish. At the moment though what I do seems to be working for me. I don't see people catching the size fish that I am out of the lakes I fish. They very well could be I just don't see them. I just wanted to present a different and objective point of view, not trying to start an argument.

[roadwarrior]

Hmm...

Seems to me we have gotten some pretty good advise from

a few guys that ACTUALLY know something, don't you think?

8-)

[fish-fighting-illini]

 I got to thinking about it and maybe there is more to it than meets the eye, maybe I'm selling myself a little bit short.

 Example:

 My younger brother comes in from out of state. We go to my favorite lake and both have spinning rods with swimbaits fishing within a few feet of ea other.  I catch 2 or 3 and he gets squat so we trade poles. Another 2 or 3 fish and I offer to trade back. I catch a couple more and zip for him. It ended up like 10 or 12 to 1 or zip. We being no stranger to trash talking to ea other it was priceless at the time!

 It could be a case of what works for one person doesn't work for another. It also could be I'm a novice and he is even more of a novice! ???

[fourbizz]

This is why I would really prefer that guys that do what I do embrace the "big baiter" monicker instead of the "swimbaiter" one.

If everybody wants to talk about 3" swimbaits, then I have almost no usable information to give.

Now if we want to talk about big baits, which are often swimbaits too, then I could help.

A 3" Sassy shad is in no way comparable to the west coast baits. When people come on and say, why would I use a $40 dollar huddleston when I can get 5 5" Storms for $4, it makes me want to scream. And yes the paddletail tubes fit right in the swimbait category, not the big bait one. THat is why I hate getting involved with these threads. People want our opinions on apples when the only thing we really know is oranges.

Not a rant directed at anyone, just a scenario I see played out over and over without end.

[burleytog]

Baiter indeed...  

[Mattlures]

fish-fighting-illini

Your experience goes with what I said. The storms are cheap baits. the bigger ones are simply not good producers, let alone BIG BASS producers. The little Stoms work but they catch little fish. We are not talking about catching 2lb bass. Any bait made can consistantly catch small bass. They are stupid and make alot of mistakes. Big bass have already made those mistakes and much more weary. You story is a classic example.  " I tried swimbaits but they didnt work" or " I tried swimbaits but I caught the same sized fish I aways caught" Well to these statements I simply ask. What swimbaits were you using? Your answer explains your results.

[Catt]

If y'all don't copy & save this one  :

[Triton_Mike]

This is why I would really prefer that guys that do what I do embrace the "big baiter" monicker instead of the "swimbaiter" one.

If everybody wants to talk about 3" swimbaits, then I have almost no usable information to give.

Now if we want to talk about big baits, which are often swimbaits too, then I could help.

A 3" Sassy shad is in no way comparable to the west coast baits. When people come on and say, why would I use a $40 dollar huddleston when I can get 5 5" Storms for $4, it makes me want to scream. And yes the paddletail tubes fit right in the swimbait category, not the big bait one. THat is why I hate getting involved with these threads. People want our opinions on apples when the only thing we really know is oranges.

Not a rant directed at anyone, just a scenario I see played out over and over without end.

Fourbizz I agree with you 100% here.. I feel like we both try to catch the top 5% of what is available in the lake. Which to me is trophy fishing. WHile others target decent or good keeper fish. There's a big difference between the two. I strongly believe that if anyone hasn't fished an 8 inch bait hard for over a year they couldn't possibly understand what we are talking about. You have to breathe it, dream it and believe in it and go the weeks/months without a bite to even understand it. But when you do understand it and have the passion for it it's a habit that will consume you forever. Big bait fishing is more addictive than anything I know of.

Fourbizzes analogy is one of the best I have seen in seperating the cute stuff from the big stuff. YEs Paddletails are swimbaits but they aren't big baits. I guess we need to start using the word "BIG BAIT" (7 inches or bigger) instead of swimbaits more. I personally feel that basstrix type baits deserve their own "paddletail" category to prevent confusion between the bigger swimbaits.

Good post!

Mike

[Catt]

I feel it's more than just big swim baits; I aint no finesse (small bait) angler I'm what the Ole school guys call a Bubba Bait angler. I fish bigger than normal baits; if it's a worm its 8 or over, if it's a jig its 3/8 oz or over, if it's a spinner bait its ½ oz or over. And yea I catch a lot of small bass on these baits but I also catch an above normal amount of larger bass. The reason I fish deep water structure more than shallow water is the odds of catching bigger bass is greatly increased.

[Branuss04]

Agree with Matt %100. Nothing to add really but another thing I see happening is that with the popularity and money to be made off swimbaits you will see a lot of people that will try to become overnight experts on swimbaits. Either an expert in fishing them or making them. There is a lot of misinformation and myths being created by many people trying to promote themselves or their new bait companies. Not so much on this site since we have real experts like Matt and Fish Chris here but they are out there. This can cause you to waste a lot of money on baits that aren't up to par or get confused by people that think they know swimbaits and how to fish them. Be careful who you listen to and what you buy and you can save a lot of money, headache and frustration. It's not like a crankbait or worm where you waste a few dollars trying something and forget about it since most good swimbaits cost a little more. I admit to wasting some money myself on bad baits but have learned to buy more quality proven swimbaits and take advice from only those who can prove to me they know what they are talking about.

I'll start off by saying i'm a complete novice when it comes to swimbaits.  I've been fishing big baits for 4 months (I've only had 2 fish and 6 bites).

Now then, I curse the day 4bizz got me into fishing.  I love fishing, but if I new then how much money i spend now, I might have gotten into golf or something.  But then I started thinking about it.  If I didn't have 4 bizz sharing his knowledge and information with me, not only on swimbaits, but on fishing in general, i would of spent twice the amount of money on stuff that SUCKED. He kept me away from the lame baits, and pointed me in the right direction to baits that had potential.  So for this, I can't thank him enough.   It does help to do your research when you get into big baits that cost 40-50 bucks.  But even with his help, i have got sucked into some of those "Fisherman Attracting" type baits.  Just do your research  

[Jimzee]

For all you big bait gurus, I just wanted to say a big thanks for the killer info in this thread. This has been one of the most informative threads I have ever read on this site. Pure gold!!

8" Mission Fish and some Ultimate Blugills are definetly in my future. The lake I fish is full of 6-8 pound bass with the occasional DD.

And BTW, I read that article on Matt Newman. MY GOD!!

[slomoe]

Why not spend a little more and get a hard swimbait? If you get one that floats or sinks slow, you don't get snagged, it last longer..right?

Any advantages of soft over hard when it comes to swimbaits?

[Mattlures]

They are two diferent tools that almost do not replace each other. There is a time and a place for both. I caught a big fish the other day on a floating hardbait proto and I was talking To Mike Long afterwards. He told me he has never caught one at that lake before on hard baits, only soft baits. It was my first harbait fish from that lake. Generaly hardbaits are much better on top then soft baits and soft baits are better on the bottom. This is not set in stone but thats the general idea. Hard baits can float and you can deadstick them and make a lot of noise with them. Soft baits can wake but will sink if you stop retreiving. Soft baits are generaly better for the bottom because you can rig them with the hooks on top so your not getting snagged.

There are soo many diferences and even some that are hybrids, you just cant have one or the other.