Why braid?

[dodgeguy]

the newer braids such as fireline braid are much more abrasion resistant than older style braids.i fish cranks on rocks all day with fireline braid with no retie.

braid backlashes are far easier to get out than mono or flouro.i don't dig them out i use the thumb trick.

braid is far more sensitive.this point can't even be argued logically.

[fathom]

am with micro on this one...for much the same reasons.

i do have one braid rig for the deep winter ledges at pickwick or some of the grasslines on the tenn-tom...other than that, i have no use for it...most of my regular lakes are loaded with cover...pitching or casting into this cover with braid gives me more line snags and breakoffs than i experience with yo-zuri or 100% fluoro.

and, fwiw, have tried the new fireline, as well.

i can see a purpose for braid and a lot of that purpose depends on where you fish, how you fish and what you fish with....for most of my purpose, i can live without it.

[Micro]

Why is braid more sensitve?  The only reason I've ever heard proffered is "stretch."  How significant is "stretch" when you are twitching a worm? 

[Hamby]

Somebody else mentioned in another thread the same thing i do. If you're out on the boat, wrap it around a cleat and pull it with the trolling motor.

[Hamby]

I am not sure I want a braid that takes a pickup to break off if I ever get snagged.

When I need to break off on braid I'll just wrap the line around the handle of my pliers a couple times and give a nice pull. A lot of times I will just straighten the hook or uproot whatever I'm stuck on.

A couple of times I've wrapped it around a mooring cleat and backed up with the tm. Works every time

Oops, somebody already mentioned it.

[Dockhead]

Carry some sizors or a sharp knife. When you get hung up it works good.

Clancy W

Unfortunately this method leaves more line in the water, posing potential problems for other anglers and/or animals.

[Dockhead]

Micro makes some interesting points.

Braid can be a pain, it's true. But I have to say, with soft plastics, in the places I normally fish, braid is downright addicting.

Setting the hook in basically any type/strength/density of cover with braid and knowing that fish is coming to the boat, is hard to get away from.

So it definitely adds some confidence and also minimizes angler miscues. If I "miss" a hook set on a fish with mono, there is a good chance the fish won't get to meet me. With braid, that miscue doesn't hurt as much and many times the fish is hooked properly anyway.

Actually now that I write that, maybe that's a negative for braid. After all, one of the reasons we do this is to become better fisherman, and if something covers our mistakes, we can't learn from them. (Don't want to go back to a string on a stick either, though.)

Hmmmm....something to ponder I guess.

My big concern with braid is the visibility factor.

And by the way, have you noticed most pros use flouro, and reserve braid only for truly thick stuff? Gotta be a reason (or 2) that they don't use it more.   :-?

[dodgeguy]

Why is braid more sensitve? The only reason I've ever heard proffered is "stretch." How significant is "stretch" when you are twitching a worm?

stretch absorbs feel.it's that simple.

[Micro]

Again, how much stretch is there in mono when you are twitching a worm in grass 35 feet from your boat?  You guys make it sound like you were fishing with bungee cords, not mono. 

[J Francho]

I'm not going to say this is a 100% truth, but  its something I noticed after teaching fishing for a season.  Guys that use braid, use their tip to "feel" bites.  That's why they like an x-fast action, that soft tip telegraphs the bite.  To me a light, well balanced rig does it just as well, regardless of line.  The x-fast tip is for getting into the backbone faster, for quicker hooksets.

[dodgeguy]

Again, how much stretch is there in mono when you are twitching a worm in grass 35 feet from your boat? You guys make it sound like you were fishing with bungee cords, not mono.

the property that gives line stretch deadens the feel even if the line isn't stretched. mono lines generally have approx 20% stretch.that means at 35 feet your line will stretch 7 feet.in weeds the problem becomes even greater as the mono grabs the weeds and stretchs like a rubber band . like i said you cannot logically argue this point.

[grimlin]

Dodge guy,you must not fish rocky areas.....I don't care what braid you are using...it won't work.

That's the biggest downside for me..I fish rocky river systems with heavy current.It just won't work for me.Fluorocarbon or heavy mono is the only way to go.

I don't care for the hook sets on braids either...too easy to rip that bait right of the fish's mouth.

[RandySBreth]

I use the fluoro leader/superline (Fireline isn't braided) set-up for my rocky rivers - best of both worlds.

But some folks can't tie a decent line/leader knot, I know.

Even with a 6- or 8-foot leader the sensitivity versus mono or fluoro is unbelievable.

We have this thread every - what - two weeks?

People need to learn how to use the "search"

function. :

[OkobojiEagle]

Randy... Although it doesn't pertain to this thread, I think if you pick apart the fibers of original Fireline under a magnifying glass you will find they are loosely braided. The line that Dodgeguy touts is not Original fireline but an eight strand tightly woven braid named Fireline Braid. Poor marketing in choosing such similar names but two different lines entirely.

steve

[Dockhead]

Again, how much stretch is there in mono when you are twitching a worm in grass 35 feet from your boat? You guys make it sound like you were fishing with bungee cords, not mono.

the property that gives line stretch deadens the feel even if the line isn't stretched. mono lines generally have approx 20% stretch.that means at 35 feet your line will stretch 7 feet.in weeds the problem becomes even greater as the mono grabs the weeds and stretchs like a rubber band . like i said you cannot logically argue this point.

Are you saying that if we put out 35 feet of mono, and pull it tight and keep pulling, it will stretch to 42 feet??

(Assuming it doesn't reach its breaking point first.)

[RandySBreth]

Randy... Although it doesn't pertain to this thread, I think if you pick apart the fibers of original Fireline under a magnifying glass you will find they are loosely braided. The line that Dodgeguy touts is not Original fireline but an eight strand tightly woven braid named Fireline Braid. Poor marketing in choosing such similar names but two different lines entirely.

steve

I was referring to original Fireline, what I use. Never tried Fireline Braid. As often as Dodgeguy refers to it, I know excactly what he means.

[Jaheff]

There's a hundred ways to skin a cat!

I do like these discussions. Every time I honestly think i learn something new.Heck two weeks ago, i didn't think there was a big difference in flouro leader material then main line, even tho i used Leader material when inshore fishing.

[OkobojiEagle]

(Fireline isn't braided)

As was I, Randy

steve

[dodgeguy]

Again, how much stretch is there in mono when you are twitching a worm in grass 35 feet from your boat? You guys make it sound like you were fishing with bungee cords, not mono.

the property that gives line stretch deadens the feel even if the line isn't stretched. mono lines generally have approx 20% stretch.that means at 35 feet your line will stretch 7 feet.in weeds the problem becomes even greater as the mono grabs the weeds and stretchs like a rubber band . like i said you cannot logically argue this point.

Are you saying that if we put out 35 feet of mono, and pull it tight and keep pulling, it will stretch to 42 feet??

(Assuming it doesn't reach its breaking point first.)

yes

[Micro]

the property that gives line stretch deadens the feel even if the line isn't stretched. mono lines generally have approx 20% stretch.that means at 35 feet your line will stretch 7 feet.in weeds the problem becomes even greater as the mono grabs the weeds and stretchs like a rubber band . like i said you cannot logically argue this point.

With all due respect - this is absurd. 

Mono stretches when significant force (read weight) is applied, as when a fish is on.  But it not going to exhibit any significant stretch in the absence of significant weight.  Twitching a soft plastic across or through grass, or bumping it off the bottom, is not going to stretch mono "like a rubber band."   And if there is no significant stretch, then stretch is an insignifcant factor in sensitivity deadening.

If this is th best "logical" explanation you can come up with, then I'll assume you can't answer the question.

[Micro]

Are you saying that if we put out 35 feet of mono, and pull it tight and keep pulling, it will stretch to 42 feet??

(Assuming it doesn't reach its breaking point first.)

No.  What he's saying is that if you put out 35 feet of line and twitch a worm, that stretches it to 42 feet. 

[Ima Bass Ninja]

the property that gives line stretch deadens the feel even if the line isn't stretched. mono lines generally have approx 20% stretch.that means at 35 feet your line will stretch 7 feet.in weeds the problem becomes even greater as the mono grabs the weeds and stretchs like a rubber band . like i said you cannot logically argue this point.

With all due respect - this is absurd.

Mono stretches when significant force (read weight) is applied, as when a fish is on. But it not going to exhibit any significant stretch in the absence of significant weight. Twitching a soft plastic across or through grass, or bumping it off the bottom, is not going to stretch mono "like a rubber band." And if there is no significant stretch, then stretch is an insignifcant factor in sensitivity deadening.

If this is th best "logical" explanation you can come up with, then I'll assume you can't answer the question.

From what i gather dodgeguy is not saying that that the mono is stretching when twitch over 35' he is saying that the properties that give the mono its stretch has a vibration damping effect. Here's a test to prove it. Grab some mono and tie one end to a door knob. pull out 20-30 feet and hold it so that it is tight but don't stretch it. then have someone tap on the door knob with a quarter. Do the same with braided line and i think you'll understand that braided line will transmit vibration better than mono even though neither one is stretched. Its not about stretch its about vibration dampening and a stretchy line like mono does not transmit vibrations like a non stretchy line like braid does.

[SharkHat]

Are you saying that if we put out 35 feet of mono, and pull it tight and keep pulling, it will stretch to 42 feet??

(Assuming it doesn't reach its breaking point first.)

No. What he's saying is that if you put out 35 feet of line and twitch a worm, that stretches it to 42 feet.

No, that's really not what he's saying at all.

[Micro]

No, that's really not what he's saying at all.

I asked how much stretch is involved when you are twitching a worm through grass on mono 35 feet from a boat. The response was...

mono lines generally have approx 20% stretch.that means at 35 feet your line will stretch 7 feet.in weeds the problem becomes even greater as the mono grabs the weeds and stretches like a rubber band .

While I have the utmost respect for Dodgeguy and agree with him 97.254% of the time, I assert that his explanation above in nonsense. (In the same spirit I say it to my wife when she says I send too much on fishing stuff - nonsense. I still sleep with, uh, like her.)

I assert that any stretch you experience when working a bait in the manner described, and in the case of working most soft plastics, where sensitivity is most desirable, the loss of sensitivity due to line stretch is minimal. I am NOT asserting that mono doesn't stretch - it certainly does. I am asserting that its doesn't stretch significantly as a result of most bait presentations where one desires sensitivity (deep jigging or deep c-rigging not withstanding). Heck, during many presentations, the force required to work a bait scarcely straightens out the coils that form in mono as a result of memory.

I assert that the differences in sensitivity between mono, fluoro and braid is minimal under most bait presentations. I assert that if there is a perception that mono is less sensitive than braid it is because it is easier to get a straight connection between rod and bait on braid than on mono. If mono is old and has coiled from memory, it takes more line to reach 35 feet than it does a straight length of braid. (Remember, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.) It is the straightening of the line that deadens feel during bait presentation, not line stretch.

As many have, I've fished mono, fluoro and braid side by side for the same techniques. With fresh line that is exhibiting little memory, have a hard time saying braid is any more sensitive than mono. IMO, the key to sensitivity is keeping your line as straight and tight as possible under the circumstances, and less about the material your line is made of.

[dodgeguy]

when worming in weeds and rocks the worm tends to get caught by the tail then your line stretchs as you pull on it.this makes it even less sensitive.like i said the properties that make it stretchy also deaden feel.flouro is denser and transmits feel better than mono.i fish cranks on braid.i can feel when the fish opens it's mouth behind the bait.it creates a vacuum which changes the pulse of the bait.you wil never feel that on stretched out rubberband mono.sometime with cranks on mono you don't even know it's a fish until it runs the other way.i don't think you'd even feel it on flouro.