St Croix graphite?

[Ern]

I know this has been here before but I can't find it.  How does St Croix's graphite compare  to the IM-? on other rods?

Looking for a comparison on SCII, SCIII, IM-6, IM-7 and so on.

[J Francho]

I have SCIII and SCIV rods and they are far lighter and more sensitive than any rod I've owned with a "IM" designation.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

An IM6/IM7 would equate to the StCroix SC II. The SC III (Avid) and up are all high modulus graphite construction.

[BASSclary]

An Avid that I fished was pretty close to my Crucial, which is an IM-9 fwiw

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

You have to be careful in these comparisons. The IM... designation is not an industry standard. It's just a designation to distinguish between models. One company's IM7 could be the same as an other's IM9 in graphite modulus. This is much like one brand's Fast action being similar to someone else's X-fast or Mod/fast. Graphite modulus by itself is also not a lone indicator of quality in a blank.

[Nine Miler]

IM can be misleading when talking about a whole rod.  It really only talks about the graphite and doesn't account for resins and scrim that go into making a blank.  it would not be totally accurate to designate the sensitivity of a completed blank based on the IM alone as there are other things involved that are quite important in regard to sensitivity.

[Nine Miler]

How's that for timing?

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

You know what they say..."Great minds think alike" lol

[.RM.]

Have posted this here many time over the years..

Direct post from rod builder/component manufacturer Andy Dear on rodbuilding.org

Good evenin' folks,

I may be about to open a SERIOUS can of worms with this thread, but what the heck.....here goes anyway. Being in the blank distribution business, I get asked A LOT about the construction and makeup of the various graphite rod blanks that I sell. And, I have to say that whenever somebody asks me about modulus I just cringe! Here is why; It seems that about 90% of the folks that email me want to know what the modulus is of the blank(s) they are considering buying. When I ask "Why do you want to know that" they can't really give me an answer....they're just convinced that higher the IM rating is better. Here is how the conversation usually evolves:

Mr. Customer: What modulus is that blank made from?

Andy: Well, if you must know, it's about 40million Msi

Mr. Customer: What does that mean?

Andy: Well, it means the blank is made from the material you have come to know and love as IM6

Mr. Customer: Oh, that's too antiquated...I only fish with IM7 and higher.

Andy: Really? Did you know that the difference between IM6 and IM7 is not the modulus it's the tensile strength?

Mr. Customer: Really?

Andy: Yeah REALLY!

Mr. Customer: Eh Hhhmmm....erreer, uh, oh....well uh....well Bass Pro Shops says...

Andy: Forget Bass Pro shops...let's look at the numbers (at this point Andy whips out his trusty data chart that illustrates the differences between the different fibers that actually have IM designations). Here take a look at this. This comes from a chart put together by the folks at Hexcel (http://www.advancedcomposites.com/technology.htm)

The number on the far right is the modulus of the fiber, and the number in the middle is the elongation to failure or stretch.

Hexcel IM4 600 40

Hexcel IM6 760 40

Hexcel IM7 780 40

Hexcel IM8 790 44

Hexcel IM9 920 42

Mr. Customer: You Mean all this time I thought I was getting a higher modulus fiber with the higher IM rating, when what I was really getting is a fiber that stretches more?

Andy: Well, in some cases you are, and in some cases you arent. The fact is though that the difference between IM6 and IM7 is nothing in terms of modulus, and compared to IM8 it's only slightly higher. Wow...look at that IM9 actually has a lower modulus than IM8...go figure Now, many companies are using fibers with a much higher modulus, like 57 and even higher, however these fibers don't necessarily use the IM ratings. So, whenever you see a fiber with an IM rating...BUYER BEWARE! THE HIGHER THE IM RATING, DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THE HIGHER THE MODULUS!!!

The point is this folks...just because you have a blank made from a high modulus fiber, doesn't means it's a good rod! And vice versa, just because you have a blank with a low modulus...even the original fiber blanks were made with (33 million) doesn't mean it's a bad or outdated rod. It's all about what the designer does with it.

I know there are some of you that may already know this, but judging from the amount of calls I get on a daily basis from folks who ONLY want IM7 or IM8, but can't really tell you why, I have to believe they don't really know what they are talking about at all. They've just been sucked into the marketing machine that leads people to believe that the higher the IM rating, the lighter and more sensetive the material, which is not always the case.

Be forewarned that there is A LOT more to graphite blank construction, performance, quality, sensetivity, weight etc... than just what modulus the fiber is. There are lots of other variables like flag patterns, and wall thickness, and resin systems, and mandrel design....It's all about the talent of the designer, and what he is able to do in terms of the sum of those variables...not just the friggin modulus!

Whewww...ok I feel better now...

My aforementioned explanation of modulus and IM ratings is by no means meant to be anything more than a brief primer for the folks who didn't realize what the differences with the IM ratings were. I hope this clears things up a bit, and I hope that some of you will chime in on this as well. Oh, here is a link to the Hexcel page for those of you who want to investigate the matter further. Do a search for IM6 and you'll get some interesting info. (if you're into that kind of techie junk).

[www.hexcel.com]

[www.advancedcomposites.com]

Now, this gives you some ammunition...next time you stroll into BassPro, and some yahoo tries to sell you a rod based on it's IM rating, ask him to explain to you why the higher IM ratings are better. When he replies by sayin' that the higher the IM rating means more sensetivity, less weight etc....just tell him that you have a blank at home made from IM2000, and see what he says.

Regards,

Andy Dear

Lamar Manf.

Tight Lines All!

[Nine Miler]

I remember reading that over there.  Good quote.

[catchnm]

.RM. Thanks for that post. Very informative.

[BASSclary]

So then, how SHOULD we tell the difference between the different levels of sensitivity? Obviously we cant go by IM or Modulus. Or do we just have to guess the more expensive one is better?

[tbird]

Ern you walked into that one, saw it coming.

T

[Tin]

Whatver model be careful fishing it in cold weather, I have seen and have had several Croix's essentially explode in the cold on hooksets. They leave some nasty cuts.

I had a Legend splinter about a foot above the handle and still have a scar on my right ring finger from a shard that got me.