Xpeditor vs. Warranty

[jeb2]

I do not expect Ruger to replace my pistol if I run over it with my truck.

You would if they said that was part of the deal when you bought the gun, though.

[jeb2]

There is just a loss of accountability in this country in general. Look at the woman that sued McDonalds because she burned herself with hot coffee. The same concept seems to be running rampant in this country. I'm not sure if the economy is driving it, or if its something else. Either way it seems that some people just refuse to accept responsibility for their actions.

Now I am not saying this is every person, or customer. This is just an observation from all the emails I receive and websites I visit. I wasn't trying to turn this political, just an opinion that I have and not that of my employer.

I agree with you. The lack of personal responsibility in this country is a very sad statement of where we are at these days as a country. It's all the "what's in it for me" or "get mine while I can" thing.

I have no idea how many Loomis customers abused the xpeditor policy. I've never even used it once personally. But it does not seem right of them to throw the baby out with the bath water on this, either.

Oh well, it is what it is. Good excuse to try other brands, I guess.

[K_Mac]

I do not expect Ruger to replace my pistol if I run over it with my truck.

You would if they said that was part of the deal when you bought the gun, though.

That is a valid point. If that were part of the deal, I would have to ask myself, "self what is the cost of this policy? Do I want to subsidise the cost of this policy in my purchase price? Is this good for as long as I own it? My children? Their children? Are there any circumstances that would cause this to change? Is it reasonable to think that such a policy is written in stone? Is a company that makes such promises viable in the long run?"

I once joined a gym, buying a "lifetime" membership, with a very low monthly maintenance charge. It was a "great" deal. A year later it closed. It was a good lesson learned. Give me a good product at a fair price...

[repper]

I think the Expeditor service, even at the $100.00 is a very generous plan. Do people really expect companies to replace their items, broken through no fault of the company? I kind of felt a little guilty sending my GLX back for replacement for $50.00 when I had broken the rod taking it out of my rod locker. Not so guilty that I didn't use the service, but I did feel bad that I had broken the rod that way. I mean, this was no fault of Loomis, but they still  sent me a brand new rod for the $50.00. I'm sure if I dropped my Nikon camera, I would not be able to have it replaced for anything other than full cost. In fact I can think of no other companies that have such a plan. I suggest just being very careful with your expensive Loomis rods, and you will find they hold up very well under "normal" fishing. Mine certainly have. The only one I"ve ever broken was my fault. And since they will still replace your rod once, just be sure you learn your lesson on the first break, and you should be fine. I've got St Croixs best, and I've one Dobyns EX, and I think the Loomis rods are still "right up there" with most anything available. I'm not sure what the others replacement programs are, but I'm doubting they will give you a new rod for $50.00 if you send back the one you broke by closing the car door on it. And the more high end rod you get the more fragile it will be, no matter the company. If you want something you can abuse without worry get an Ugly Stick

[Dan-K]

I do not expect Ruger to replace my pistol if I run over it with my truck.

You would if they said that was part of the deal when you bought the gun, though.

Should have bought a Glock anyway ;D

[Bantam1]

We need to remember that this is a business. Say you have a discontinued rod and the new model comes out 2 years from now. You break the rod to get the new one through the Xpeditor. Now you have the new one, and you break it in your car door a year later. You pay the fee and get another one. Now exactly where do we make money? This is why we changed this to a one time policy, and no longer allow discontinued rods in the program.

That pretty much sums up what was happening with the old program. Then add the people selling broken rods on ebay on top of that. The goal is to sell rods not give them away. The old program was like giving rods away and then paying the customer to take them. Not only were we losing but the dealers lose too. Now you get a one time "oops" service instead of unlimited.

[OneUp]

We need to remember that this is a business. Say you have a discontinued rod and the new model comes out 2 years from now. You break the rod to get the new one through the Xpeditor. Now you have the new one, and you break it in your car door a year later. You pay the fee and get another one. Now exactly where do we make money? This is why we changed this to a one time policy, and no longer allow discontinued rods in the program.

That pretty much sums up what was happening with the old program. Then add the people selling broken rods on ebay on top of that. The goal is to sell rods not give them away. The old program was like giving rods away and then paying the customer to take them. Not only were we losing but the dealers lose too. Now you get a one time "oops" service instead of unlimited.

First of all, I've never had any experience with the Loomis warranty department, so I'm not qualified to speak on it.  But, let me say this, the "warranty" department for most companies/corporations seems to have devolved into a state of "offer a lifetime warranty and refuse to back it up" by finding ANY excuse to refuse the claim.  The customer in that case is then in a position to "prove" otherwise. 

This is what people are afraid of with Loomis.  Let's say I break my GLX on the hookset and I send it in to be replaced under the lifetime warranty.  Loomis looks at it and denies the claim based on their "evaluation".  How do I "prove" that the break happened on the hookset and the rod hadn't been abused?

IMO, people have less of an issue about the extra $50 for the Xpeditor than they do the FEAR of being denied for a warranty claim.

[Kenny418]

Well I just sent a rod in to the warranty department. Lets see how it turns out. Imx 844 that honestly broke on a hookset. I have only broken one other rod in 10 years. The first one was my fault. This one however was not. So I am curious to see what Loomis comes back with. I have never used the warranty department or the xpeditor service. I do not think the increase in price for the service is unfair. Accidents happen and it is a great service to have for such an expensive rod.

[rubba bubba]

Let's say I break my GLX on the hookset and I send it in to be replaced under the lifetime warranty. Loomis looks at it and denies the claim based on their "evaluation". How do I "prove" that the break happened on the hookset and the rod hadn't been abused?

To your point, here's a recent Loomis warranty claim debacle:

http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1280865168

As for lack of accountability, that is certainly true for corporations and the people who run them as well.

[bigfruits]

We need to remember that this is a business. Say you have a discontinued rod and the new model comes out 2 years from now. You break the rod to get the new one through the Xpeditor. Now you have the new one, and you break it in your car door a year later. You pay the fee and get another one. Now exactly where do we make money?

repeat purchases of the same rod due to breakage is not part of the new Loomis profit strategy is it?

why not offer a replacement at cost plus shipping? add an significant upgrade fee if the new model is more expensive?

when i bought my first glx i did not even know about xpeditor. it was the best rod id ever held. after finding out about the xpeditor service i built a small collection of glx rods over the next couple of years.

my initial plan was to have one very nice jig/plastic rod (my first glx) and fish mainly avids for other presentations. there is no way i would have bought 11 more glx rods if they werent a long-time guaranteed investment. not that they arent great rods, its just alot of money for me.

if i never owned a loomis rod and i read great reviews about the NRX, looked at the cost and saw it comes with a "no hassle" free replacement, sure i'd grab one or two. its a great deal. hell, look at JDM rods. but thats not the point.

for some Loomis owners who own multiple rods, this kind of feels like the gym membership story mentioned above (not as extreme, but same type of feeling). call me a sucker, i guess.

no folks, its not the $50 price increase thats upsetting.

not trying to whine, just making a point.

-z

[K_Mac]

I do not expect Ruger to replace my pistol if I run over it with my truck.

You would if they said that was part of the deal when you bought the gun, though.

Should have bought a Glock anyway ;D

That is an entirely different argument. 

[Bantam1]

The people that inspect the rods at GLoomis have been doing so for 18-20 years now. They have seen more rod failures than all of us combined. This along with the facy machine that was developed to break rods will tell them quite a bit. A simpe ding to the graphite can cause a rod to fail.

The outer sheet of graphite may show no signs of impact. This is especially true with the painted rods. We use a fex agent in the paint to allow it to bend and flex so that it will not flake off. It can be easily dinged and return to the original shape. The inner sheet may be cracked making the blank weak in this area. The end result is a rod failure once it loads to that correct spot.

Typically a bad rod or a legitimate failure will look funnel shaped, or the rod will break into 3+ pieces. If the rod looks like it broke clean, with one side looking like a razor cut it, will typically be something that happened due to impact damage.

We don't just deny warranty claims because we fell like it. I know there have been some upset people because they couldn't physically see the damage. I have to place my faith in the people that inspect the rods. This is their job and they are the best at doing it.

[Siebert Outdoors]

I have a sneaky feeling that alot of other companies will follow this that have copied Loomis's warranty plan.

[rubba bubba]

Didn't Roger say he went over the rod with a toolmaker's eye-loop, and found no impacted fibers (let alone a hit mark), prior to sending it in? Sounds like he was very thorough.

[OneUp]

I have to place my faith in the people that inspect the rods. This is their job and they are the best at doing it.

I disagree.  There is no one at Loomis who can tell me whether or not I've abused or misused my rod because they haven't been there to witness it's use.  Unless there's a "black box" on a Loomis rod that I'm unaware of, all they can do is offer a "best guess" or an opinion regarding what caused the rod to fail.  IMO, it should be the companies burden to prove a product was misused, not the other way around.  But, here's where that "faith" comes in.  In my experience, warranty departments are far more loyal to the companies bottom line than they are to their customers.  With all due respect, it would be unfair of you to expect a Loomis customer to take it on "faith".  I understand the changes that have been made are a done deal and we better get used to it, but changing the rules in the middle of the game was/is a little tough for some of us to swallow.

[SoFlaBassAddict]

What happens in this situation though?  I buy a new rod, without my knowing though, it was banged either in shipping or in the store.  You said there could very well be no outward appearing damage.  The rod breaks because of that damage.  As far as I'm concerned this is a fishing accident because I've got no knowledge of the damage.  What happens in this scenario?  I've seen how some employees in stores handle the rods.  The customers in stores frequently aren't all that gentle with the stuff on display either.

[K_Mac]

What happens in this situation though? I buy a new rod, without my knowing though, it was banged either in shipping or in the store. You said there could very well be no outward appearing damage. The rod breaks because of that damage. As far as I'm concerned this is a fishing accident because I've got no knowledge of the damage. What happens in this scenario? I've seen how some employees in stores handle the rods. The customers in stores frequently aren't all that gentle with the stuff on display either.

That is the real issue I believe. Determining if there is impact damage seems to be a pretty straightforward process. When and how are more difficult questions. That a rod could be damaged in the distribution process, has to be considered by the company I think. Many companies handle that by giving a warranty limited to an advertised period of time; 90 days, 1 year, whatever. If damage has occurred it would be expected to show up in that period of time. A rod crushed in the car door would obviously not be covered.That seems reasonable to me.

[Al Wolbach]

Dan, thanks for sharing your insight. I have recovered from the initial shock of the announcement and will probably still purchase G loomis products. However, I will look at other rod companies a little harder than in the past. I further believe you will see a significant increase in warranty claims which you will have to disapprove which will lead to unhappy customers, etc.

Many of these customers would have used the expeditor service prior to the change. Ripple effect.

I still don't understand how you folks or even myself are going to keep track of which of my three GLX MBR844c's have been sent in using the Expeditor program.

I truly hope after the dust settles these changes work well for all..........................Al

 

[Maxximus Redneckus]

Things like this will make ugly stiks  the best sellin rod in america LOL if it aint already 8-)

[Bantam1]

In a situation where the rod is new and fails right away we can tell the rod is still new. We are also aware that damage can happen in shipping and that people in the tackle shop before you could have damaged the rod. Normally shipping damage is caught when the dealer receives the rods from us. They will see obvious scratches to the finish or broken rods. The dealer will call us and we will send a replacement right away.

Typically in cases where a rod has been used for a while and suddenly fails can be from any number of things. I remember the customer that was a jewler. Unfortunately I am not the one that looks at the rods. I do nto want to go into that again. He spoke with several people here and at GLoomis. I do not know what the final result was. I do know that we go with our rod inspectors decision.

GLoomis has this fancy machine that the sole purpose is to break rods. They have learned a lot from this machine and about rod failures. This is why I said I trust the rod inspectors. They look at rods all day. Now if they went to your job and told you that you did it wrong, what would you think about that? Yes you are correct we can't be in the boat with you to see what happened. We have your word and what our inspectors find to be the cause. Since I am located in So-Cal and they are in WA it makes it tough for me to make a call anyways.

The one time replacement thing will be hard to keep track of. There are no serial numbers on the rods. You did not have to register the rod either. We are aware that several customers may have multiple rods of the same model. This will be something taken as a case by case basis.

[RussBert]

I still don't understand how you folks or even myself are going to keep track of which of my three GLX MBR844c's have been sent in using the Expeditor program.

I truly hope after the dust settles these changes work well for all..........................Al

Do GLoomis rods have a serial number printed on them, like St Croix rods do?

[NorcalBassin]

In a situation where the rod is new and fails right away we can tell the rod is still new. We are also aware that damage can happen in shipping and that people in the tackle shop before you could have damaged the rod. Normally shipping damage is caught when the dealer receives the rods from us. They will see obvious scratches to the finish or broken rods. The dealer will call us and we will send a replacement right away.

I really appreciate you taking the time to answer the questions of a lot of the Loomis owners on the board. With that being said, you only partially touched on damage caused by the time we buy a rod. Yeah, obvious damage may be picked up by the dealer, but what about the careless guy that may have caused some damage to the $300 rod he was playing with and then I proceed to buy it after he puts it back on the rack? The inspectors are going to deny my warranty claim because it was a damaged rod and not a defective rod. If my new outwardly unblemished rod breaks while landing a dink and the warranty is denied because of prior damage, I would be incredibly upset. Hopefully there is some gray area in the warranty coverage.

[jeb2]

Since I am located in So-Cal and they are in WA it makes it tough for me to make a call anyways.

Which is the kind of thing I was afraid of when I heard the Loomis customer service center switched from Loomis to Shimano.

[Bantam1]

There are still 3 people taking calls in WA. I am the only person that handles emails and work on the boards. I do not deal with any of the warranty or Xpeditor processes. I am simply the messanger and lately the whipping boy.

We are aware of damage at the dealer level as well. Typically if the rod is damaged then it will fail the first time out. 2 years from now cannot be considered damage in shipping or at the dealer level. The inspectors can see the signs of a new rod. The cork will still look good and the filler in the cork will still be present too.

[Kenny418]

I am happy to report that G Loomis sent me a new MBR 844 after I broke mine on a hook set. I shipped it out 3 weeks ago. My new one arrived yesterday. No questions asked. Only out of pocket was shippng to them. I added 2 NRX rods to my boat this week and they are insane. Loomis is still #1 in my book!!!