Xpeditor vs. Warranty

[Bantam1]

Hello everyone. I know its been a while since I have posted here on the site. I want to apologize. I really enjoy this site and miss being a part of it.

I was reading the posts about the changes to the Xpeditor Service and determined that I needed to post some info to make everyone aware of the reasons it was changed. I also want to explain the differences between Xpeditor and Warranty. It appears that many people thought they were one in the same. I am not posting this to start an argument. This is simply an informative post.

Xpeditor is a service and not warranty. This is to be used when you break your rod outside of the normal warranty parameters, such as closing the tailgate on your rod. For all failures that happen due to manufacturer defects, the rod should be sent in for warranty evaluation. This is why the rods are covered by our lifetime warranty. I saw there was a problem with one of the members rods on here. I'm sure I will get a rock or two thrown at me about this.

Xpeditor is a service that GLoomis came up with about 10 years ago. Many of you are aware of how it works so I will not go into details about the past.

In the past 10 years we have seen a rise in costs for many things. Shipping, shipping materials (cardboard tubes, tape labels, etc;) and rod components. All of these factors created a larger and larger loss of money for GLoomis every year. The fee should have been raised years ago which made the double in cost such a shock. Trust me when I say they are not making a dime on the Xpeditor Service. Instead of losing a lot of money on every order, they are losing a little less now.

The one time per rod is new. In my personal opinion I believe it is fair. You can break the rod in a simple accident and you get a chance to replace it for $100. This is still cheaper than buying a new rod, especially a IMX or GLX model. We are aware that many people have more than one rod of the same model. We are not asking for a receipt, but this is now only available for current rod models only. If the rod model has been discontinued it will not be eligible for the Xpeditor service. It will need to be sent in warranty evaluation.

So to sum this all up. If the rod breaks under normal conditions then send it in for warranty. If the rod breaks in your rod locker, car door, ceiling fan, tailgate, dog ate it, caught fire in a chemistry experiment or broken while disciplining your child, you should use the Xpeditor service.

Remember I am just the messanger and not the one that created the changes. I will answer questions. But I am not here to argue. Thanks everyone!

[Lucky Craft Man]

Bantam1,

Would you mind clearifiying the Xpeditor Service's role with the new NRX rods? Is the Xpeditor Service appliciple to the NRX if for some reason you choose not use (or lose) the Wild Card? Thanks.

[SPEEDBEAD.]

If the rod model has been discontinued it will not be eligible for the Xpeditor service. It will need to be sent in warranty evaluation.

Whoa nelly....

How can a product be sold with that "service" as a selling point and now that the product is no more, the "service" goes out the window as well? What happened to the "upgrade" if you model was no longer in production?

That is a new one that should ruffle some feathers. I handn't heard that stipulation before.

Hypothetically, what is to stop Loomis/Shimano from changing a couple call letters, say MBR changing to HBR (making that up, of course), and saying, "Sorry Charlie, that rod is no longer in production."

[rubba bubba]

I think the point of this thread is clarification of the new terms, not whether the new terms are fair or whatever. I'm not sure there is much need for clarification of the terms, though, as confusion isn't really the issue, but it's not my thread.

[Bantam1]

LCM- When you buy an NRX you will register it online. You then download and print the form to send in with your receipt. We will then send you the card. The cards have a serial number on them to track it back to the rod. If you lose the card then we will at least have your registraion in the system. I'm not sure how it will be handled after that. I do know that we will track the cards when they have been used.

Speedbead- We never offered an upgrade program. We may have allowed a customer to upgrade when a model was discontinued when using the Xpeditor. This will no longer be available. Now if the rod fails under warranty, and it is discontinued, then of course we will upgrade you.

We are also not going to change the models that we still have like the MBR. They are too popular. The rods that are discontinued are mostly models that are pretty old with a few exceptions in the saltwater market and rods like the frog rod.   

Rubba- I posted this because I still see a lot of people confusing Xpeditor with warranty. Many people thought that the Xpeditor was the warranty. I see it every day in emails and on websites. I read all the posts prior to mine and decided to add the clarification. I also wanted to open the door for questions.

[SJB1226]

He just pointed out a unknown by me about the if its not being made anymore it cant be used with Xpeditor so that is another nail in the pine box that loomis sales will RIP in....

I cant believe that as a major company with MASSIVE buying power that can pull crazy low material cost by contract, that there cost per rod is over a 100 dollars... GLX, IMX ect... maybe with the NRX and the high resin cost maybe... I can however understand shipping cost eatting at it but im sure they have a much discounted rate via contract with UPS or Fedex with the massive amount of rods shipped... they dont pay even close to what we would. I do understand the price increase HOWEVER... what if I bought a new GLX on July 30th not having heard about the changes and I bought it thinking It was how it always was... lol I know thats what yo get for thinking... however tens and tens and tens (and a lot more tens lol) of 1000's of people bought rods prior to Aug 1st 2010 in big part to that service along.. I know I did when I fished a WHOLE LOT of GLX's 17 I believe was the number of GLX's I owned at one time.. and I bought them because of performance and Xpeditor service... I wouldnt have owned so many if it didnt have that service that was so stellar...

Bantam1 Im not complaining at you.. in fact its nice to see you here and get the Info from someone that knows everything all the little details... I dont fish Loomis anymore, however im on the boat with 3 NRX's I bought just to see what they was all about and there stellar rods indeed... and may have a good chance at having a full time stay in my boat.. we will see about that tho...

As for what Loomis is doing to its long time and very loyal customers is Bull if you have a rod that was bought prior to the change then you should have the same terms that you bought the rod having... If you bought the rod after the change then you knew about it and have to be happy with it... its just not right what they are doing and when major company's that was ultra legit turn sour it just makes one less of a very select few that are dropping like flies...pretty soon there wont be a good one left... its about that way now.. I hope Loomis really pays for doing this to its loyal fans... trust me the ONLY reason they sold me 3 NRX's is ONLY because I really wanted to see what it had to offer I will NEVER buy another Loomis anything... I already wouldnt but shimano lol Im a Daiwa fan...

Anyhow thanks Bantam1 and have a great day pal... Hopefully see you again soon!

[bigfruits]

The one time per rod is new. In my personal opinion I believe it is fair.

i dont think its fair that many GLoomis users bought the rods because of the xpeditor service and now it is being changed (myself included).

i dont mind a fee increase but the fact that you can only use it once has me looking at other brands now.

i certainly dont plan on breaking a rod more than once. i own about 12 loomis rods and have used the xpeditor twice but both times on the same rod. had this happened after Aug 1st id be SOL.

so now my "immortal" Loomis rods only have two lives. i'll admit, theres no way i will sell all of them (not my bcrs!) but the majority will be sold and replaced.

:'(  ok, im done crying.

[Bantam1]

Xpeditor covers the cost of shipping both ways. Figure on average $25 each way. That is $50 right there of the $100 cost. Now add the cost of the cardboard tube. Maybe $5. Now we have the labor for the person to pick and package the rod, attach the shipping label and place the return shipping label, sticker and invoice inside another bag to go with the rod. Then we have the cost of the rod as well. Trust me this is not a profit center for GLoomis. I can't go into details but I assure you were are not making a dime on Xpeditor.

As far as the older rods, warranty is the only thing that has not changed. The Xpeditor service was not a contract you signed when you purchased the rod. This is a service fee that can change like anything else.

We (Shimano) do not even offer anything like this and probably never will. Several companies do not offer this type of program. I believe GLoomis was the first to offer anything like this. I could be wrong, but I really think we will see the other companies follow suit. They have to be seeing the same things we did. Unfortunately the goal is not to lose money when you own a business. Sure there are loss leaders. However, you need to turn a profit at some point. GLoomis wants to stay in business. The monetary vacuum that existed prior to the fee increase would have ended up taking a large toll on the company.

[SPEEDBEAD.]

As far as the older rods, warranty is the only thing that has not changed. The Xpeditor service was not a contract you signed when you purchased the rod. This is a service fee that can change like anything else.

Change it? Sure, I get that. Do away with it? Sure looks like the ol' "bait and switch" to my untrained eye.

We (Shimano) do not even offer anything like this and probably never will.

But can't you walk into a Shimano dealer and trade over the counter?

[SJB1226]

Xpeditor covers the cost of shipping both ways. Figure on average $25 each way. That is $50 right there of the $100 cost. Now add the cost of the cardboard tube. Maybe $5. Now we have the labor for the person to pick and package the rod, attach the shipping label and place the return shipping label, sticker and invoice inside another bag to go with the rod. Then we have the cost of the rod as well. Trust me this is not a profit center for GLoomis. I can't go into details but I assure you were are not making a dime on Xpeditor.

As far as the older rods, warranty is the only thing that has not changed. The Xpeditor service was not a contract you signed when you purchased the rod. This is a service fee that can change like anything else.

We (Shimano) do not even offer anything like this and probably never will. Several companies do not offer this type of program. I believe GLoomis was the first to offer anything like this. I could be wrong, but I really think we will see the other companies follow suit. They have to be seeing the same things we did. Unfortunately the goal is not to lose money when you own a business. Sure there are loss leaders. However, you need to turn a profit at some point. GLoomis wants to stay in business. The monetary vacuum that existed prior to the fee increase would have ended up taking a large toll on the company.

I agree with you about cost... Loomis Said we will end up making more sales because of offering something like this...sure we will loose a little from the service but it will point a lot more customers to our line of rods because of the service. Im not saying a word about the cost increase really thats to be expected with anything... however limiting the rods when that was never something that came up and then all the sudden thats it one time deal... I wasnt saying that 100 dollars was making money by any means... and I know 100% at 50 bucks lots of money was being lost...like I said the 100 dollars isnt bad at all replacing a 400 dollar rod that you broke for 100 dollars is great... but all the people that bought loomis rods thought they wouldnt have a limit on the number of times they could use it/the discontinued part as well... anyone that thought the cost to use the service would never go up wasnt thinking of the company protecting its well being... you cant loose money in biz trust me I know as I work for my self and in sales of mainly JDM fishing related items and high end Radio control helicopters and planes.. I cant loose money on a daily basis or i wont last long..

I just think its really wrong of a Top notch customer service orientated company to throw such a HUGE change on its customers all at once.. I believe a lot of other companies like Dobyns will keep the 60 dollar no questions asked deal because the people yall loose because of this will go to a company that offers it...so I believe you will see more of the opposite then what Loomis did. 

[Bantam1]

With the Xpeditor it was either raise the price and make the changes, or do away with it altogether. We decided to make the changes. I did not make the decision. I just have to enforce the rules. On a side note the decisions are made as a collective group from both Shimano and GLoomis staff. It is not us (Shimano) making all the calls. Of course Shimano is getting blamed for it all because we are an evil corporation  :

As far as one rod per customer...well we have no way of knowing how many rods each customer has *cough*  I'm sure this will change int he future to a program similar to the NRX. For right now this is what we have.

The discontinued models can be sent in. At worst I bet they will offer a replacement at a discounted rate if it found to be non warranty related.

[coryjames]

bantam,i have a BCR 803 GLX ranger rod.would this be allowed in the xpeditor program?would you count it as a regular BCR803?its my favorite rod had for a while and still going strong.just wondering,thanks

[Lucky Craft Man]

With the Xpeditor it was either raise the price and make the changes, or do away with it altogether. We decided to make the changes. I did not make the decision. I just have to enforce the rules. On a side note the decisions are made as a collective group from both Shimano and GLoomis staff. It is not us (Shimano) making all the calls. Of course Shimano is getting blamed for it all because we are an evil corporation :

As far as one rod per customer...well we have no way of knowing how many rods each customer has *cough* I'm sure this will change int he future to a program similar to the NRX. For right now this is what we have.

The discontinued models can be sent in. At worst I bet they will offer a replacement at a discounted rate if it found to be non warranty related.

Now, these are encouraging words...as I mentioned many times before, I have never broken a rod and I hope I never do, but I want a company that will work with me if it happens.  I also know there is discussion as to the fact that the warranty has never changed, but I would assume very few breaks are because of manufacturing defect, therefore, I never cared about the warranty.  I cared more about the Service.  If Shimano is willing to be fair and work with their customers (that are not abusers) then I have no problems. 

[uicdent11]

I don't think we'll ever have to worry about Shimano being fair and willing to work with customers as long as Dan is working there. This guy goes above and beyond when it comes to customer service. 

[Bantam1]

bantam,i have a BCR 803 GLX ranger rod.would this be allowed in the xpeditor program?would you count it as a regular BCR803?its my favorite rod had for a while and still going strong.just wondering,thanks

Of course this is still a normal BCR803. It just would not have the Ranger logo on the replacement.

We are willing to work with people. That has always been the case. We all know that people have abused the program in the past. Look how many broken rods were being sold on ebay alone! GLoomis still appreciates the customers and will go out of their way to help out.

Yes many failures are do to the fault of the rod owner. Bouncing fish for example is very bad for any rod and probably the leading cause of failures. This and rod locker damage. Some rod lockers are just brutal on rods. Typically a true defective rod will shatter into multiple pieces, not just the tip section. Sometimes a rod can get dinged by contact with something. You or I may never notice it until the rod loads to that exact spot then it will fail. If the break looks funnel shaped, or in multiple pieces, then this is a good indication that the rod failed under a normal condition. If it is a clean break like it was cut with a knife then it made contact at some point.

[bigfruits]

thanks for posting this thread, Bantam1.

im sure you guys thought of all possible options to keep the xpeditor going, but would making people register the rods and getting an 'expeditor credit' per rod not work?

for example, i own 12 rods. ive used the service twice, so i have 10 credits left. i hope not to ever need another replacement but because i use 3 of my loomis' rods about 75% of the time, those are the ones that would need the insurance of xpeditor.

i guess keeping a system like that would need more people hired but a simple database should handle it.

i dunno. i would be more than happy with 10, or even 5 credits in my loomis acct...

-z

[Bantam1]

I'm sure we will come up with something for the future. I have heard all sorts of ideas. Just nothing has been decided yet.

[ghost_207]

Will we see any glx in split grip?

[Bassn Blvd]

Bantam1,

Long time no hear from.  Glad to see/hear you drop by.  I'm a long tong time user/fan of Loomis and don't find anything wrong with the $50 increase in the "service."  For those who do, then it's simple. GO BUY SOMETHING ELSE.

I plan on having a couple NRX's in the rod rack very soon and look forward to keeping Loomis part of my fishing experience. 

Now let's get down to REEL business.  Would you be so kind as to go to the vault and find me 1-2 of the older Chronarch 50 mg's.  My biggest mistake was giving one of my three away to my uncle.

Take care and good luck with all the haters.

[jeb2]

I'm a long tong time user/fan of Loomis and don't find anything wrong with the $50 increase in the "service."

I think many would agree with you. If that were the only change. But add to that the once in a lifetime thing, no xpeditor service on discontinued rods, no xpeditor service on the new NRX (!), Loomis customer service calls now being handled by Shimano and it starts to put Loomis in a different light for many of us.

For those who do, then it's simple. GO BUY SOMETHING ELSE.

My plan exactly. And from the sounds of the forums, many will be voting on this one with their wallets.

[roadwarrior]

I think the free, one-time replacement policy for the

NRX series will be well received by those willing to buy

at this pricing point. However, the damage to the brand

in general may be more pronounced. At the very least,

many loyal G.Loomis customers will consider other options.

Bantam,

Thank you for addressing the issue here. As you can see,

there are a lot of guys interested in the story. I think

we all appreciate the opportunity to converse directly

with you on this.

-Kent

[Siebert Outdoors]

Thanks for the clarification Bantam1.

I do the exact same job as Bantam1 just for a different company so I can see exactly where he is coming from and where Shimano is coming from. I've always thought the expiditor program was great deal for the oops. Even at 100 its a good deal because in reality Shimano could tell you "You broke it, not our fault". So to pay 100 dollars for a rod and two ways of shipping. Thats pretty cheap imo for something I slammed in the rod locker or stepped on.

We do alot of good will warranty work where I'm at also and all I can say is people abuse their stuff. IMO this policy might make them realize they need to be a little more careful.

[Bantam1]

Bassn- Sorry the 50MG's are long gone now. I still have one, but the Core 50 quickly replaced it. Check out the Curado 50E too. I really like that reel 

jeb2- There are three people at GLoomis doing customer service as well. They handle GLoomis, Shimano and Power Pro calls just like our people here. The customer service people are all linked to take calls out of the same place.

I'm always here even if I am not posting. I have helped many through PM's and I always check posts. The past few months have been hectic for me with ICAST, travel and daily duties. I think I surprised roadwarrior when I answered his email through our customer service inbox.

I want to thank everyone for being very civil about this. One of the other sites I visit was not as cordial. I had to wear body armor and dodge rocks  ;D

[K_Mac]

Bantam 1 it is good to know you're still around. 8-)

I have followed this conversation as an innocent ::)bystander. I do not own any GLoomis rods. The only reason I don't have a boat load of GLXs is cost. It is not that I think the cost is too high for the quality received, just too high for my financial position.

My opinion will not endear me to some, but I'll give it for what it's worth. I've always thought that giving an unlimited number of replacement rods for a fee that barely covered the cost of shipping, with no questions asked was a remarkable service. For anyone to think that the cost of this service should be fixed for all time does not make any sense to me. That you have changed from an unlimited number of replacements to one time only, and raised the cost to reflect the higher cost of replacement does make sense to me.

A warranty that covers defects in materials and workmanship is what I expect when I buy a rod, reel, boat, car, weapon, etc. I do not expect Ruger to replace my pistol if I run over it with my truck. For them to do so would mean that the cost of doing business would be higher, and everyone would have to pay for my carelessness. I want to buy a quality product at a fair price. If I break it due to my negligence, that is just part of the cost of ownership.

[Bantam1]

There is just a loss of accountability in this country in general. Look at the woman that sued McDonalds because she burned herself with hot coffee. The same concept seems to be running rampant in this country. I'm not sure if the economy is driving it, or if its something else. Either way it seems that some people just refuse to accept responsibility for their actions.

Now I am not saying this is every person, or customer. This is just an observation from all the emails I receive and websites I visit. I wasn't trying to turn this political, just an opinion that I have and not that of my employer.