Abu Garcias Vendetta rated better than Shimanos Cumulus!!!!

[Incheon Basser]

Dude, if you dont think the Cumulus is worth paying 3x the cost of a Vendetta then dont buy a Cumulus but I think you will find it impossible to get any knowledgeable fishermen to believe you.

Remember, there is a reason the Vendette costs $89 and the Cumulus is $349. The Cumulus blank costs more to produce than the entire Vendette rod. Im not knocking the Vendetta rod but that the way it is.

You said you have a Steez compilex rod so Im having a hard time understanding why anyone that buys a $500 Steez rod is buying and using a $89 Vendetta rod. Its gotta feel strange when you switch form the Steez to the Vendetta. Be like going from a BMW to a Kia.

I have a friend who owns a rod manufactering company in Korea. They spin their own blanks and such

he said that no matter how expensive the rod is the blank it's self when it's first made costs no more than 15$ for even the extremely top end rods like the 1,000 evergreen the rest of the cost is componets and then from there they like to make at least 100% profit but try fo 200% if they can

[Dan:]

$15? That's a little unbelievable for me.

[ToledoEF]

$15? That's a little unbelievable for me.

This doesnt shock me at all, im suprised its not less. You think thats bad you would crap yourself if you saw the markup on electronis and thier accesories.

[s13john]

yah its true markup is ridiculous on everything. i imagine once you get the cost of the machine done with materials are probably so cheep as a bulk buy. but as long as your having a good time using your gear thats all that counts.

[slonezp]

6 pages arguing about fishing rods. : I got ya'll beat. Picked up a St. Croix Mojo Bass 7'MH fo $25 at Cabelas bargain cave. Had a broken tip. Bought a replacement and now I have a 6'8" rod for under 30 bucks and it's not worth the breath to argue about ;D

[Gone_Phishin]

Warren says:

[rayrock99]

You know it's funny but I've yet to hear someone say that they Love there Cumulus. I heard plenty from the Vendetta guys about how much they like it but nothing from those guys who own the Cumulus.

I LOVE MY CUMULUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[b.Lee]

LOL the mark up on tires is just as ridiculous.

[Pantera61]

You know it's funny but I've yet to hear someone say that they Love there Cumulus. I heard plenty from the Vendetta guys about how much they like it but nothing from those guys who own the Cumulus.

I LOVE MY CUMULUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, that only took 6 pages  :

[Pantera61]

Ok, I've had about enough of this! Calling people insecure and close-minded over fishing tackle? Really? Is that what fishing is now?

You guys want to debate, knock yourself out. But I will NOT tolerate name-calling and disrespectful comments! >

Are we clear on this?

As the author of both comments, I guess, I'd like to say this:

1. The "insecurity googles" was intended to be a joke. Along the lines of "Gee Pal, you must have had your beer googles on when you were talking to that one.". Perhaps this, : or another would have lightened it up a bit.

2. Single-minded and narrow-minded are two different things to me. Single-minded referring to "Don't you dare challenge the order. Shimano is superior in all aspects, in every attribute, with every item.". You know what, it ain't. Not by a long shot.

I'm not the first person to say it. Not on this thread, not on this forum. It's not heat they're responding to, it's the resistance.

That being said, it's you're playground and your rules. They will be followed.

[Grey Wolf]

It's a war zone here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[eyedabassman]

I don't care! I went out and bought the 6'6" MH Vendetta for my RC baitcaster! I have alot of good and not cheap rods ! I would put the Vendetta rods somewhere in the middle or a bit above other high end rods! But for me the Vendatta is a nice rod for the money. It will will be my grub and small plastic rod.

  Six pages WOW, so I had to join in!

PS Not everyone can afford to buy high end rods ,and that the Vendetta's and other rods,that are in the middle of the pack are a good choice for people to pick from and still have good feel and end up with a good rod!

[Diablos]

Dude, if you dont think the Cumulus is worth paying 3x the cost of a Vendetta then dont buy a Cumulus but I think you will find it impossible to get any knowledgeable fishermen to believe you.

Remember, there is a reason the Vendette costs $89 and the Cumulus is $349. The Cumulus blank costs more to produce than the entire Vendette rod. Im not knocking the Vendetta rod but that the way it is.

You said you have a Steez compilex rod so Im having a hard time understanding why anyone that buys a $500 Steez rod is buying and using a $89 Vendetta rod. Its gotta feel strange when you switch form the Steez to the Vendetta. Be like going from a BMW to a Kia.

I have a friend who owns a rod manufactering company in Korea. They spin their own blanks and such

he said that no matter how expensive the rod is the blank it's self when it's first made costs no more than 15$ for even the extremely top end rods like the 1,000 evergreen the rest of the cost is componets and then from there they like to make at least 100% profit but try fo 200% if they can

I am a rod builder for a living for a small manufacturer/saltwater retail store in the northeast. You guys would be amazed by the cost of some "high end" blanks from major manufacturers if you're on their top end programs.

I could build a SCV St Croix with Fuji titanium guides for under $200. Things that drive the costs up are Matagi seats which can run $30+ wholesale but a simple Fuji ESC seat runs only $3-$5.

That being said, why don't I build freshwater rods my self. Well, I have. But when you make rods 8-10 hours a day it's a job  and not a hobby.

[Pantera61]

Dude, if you dont think the Cumulus is worth paying 3x the cost of a Vendetta then dont buy a Cumulus but I think you will find it impossible to get any knowledgeable fishermen to believe you.

Remember, there is a reason the Vendette costs $89 and the Cumulus is $349. The Cumulus blank costs more to produce than the entire Vendette rod. Im not knocking the Vendetta rod but that the way it is.

You said you have a Steez compilex rod so Im having a hard time understanding why anyone that buys a $500 Steez rod is buying and using a $89 Vendetta rod. Its gotta feel strange when you switch form the Steez to the Vendetta. Be like going from a BMW to a Kia.

I have a friend who owns a rod manufactering company in Korea. They spin their own blanks and such

he said that no matter how expensive the rod is the blank it's self when it's first made costs no more than 15$ for even the extremely top end rods like the 1,000 evergreen the rest of the cost is componets and then from there they like to make at least 100% profit but try fo 200% if they can

I am a rod builder for a living for a small manufacturer/saltwater retail store in the northeast. You guys would be amazed by the cost of some "high end" blanks from major manufacturers if you're on their top end programs.

I could build a SCV St Croix with Fuji titanium guides for under $200. Things that drive the costs up are Matagi seats which can run $30+ wholesale but a simple Fuji ESC seat runs only $3-$5.

That being said, why don't I build freshwater rods my self. Well, I have. But when you make rods 8-10 hours a day it's a job and not a hobby.

uh-oh, now it's really going to hit the fan ...

[Dan:]

Dude, if you dont think the Cumulus is worth paying 3x the cost of a Vendetta then dont buy a Cumulus but I think you will find it impossible to get any knowledgeable fishermen to believe you.

Remember, there is a reason the Vendette costs $89 and the Cumulus is $349. The Cumulus blank costs more to produce than the entire Vendette rod. Im not knocking the Vendetta rod but that the way it is.

You said you have a Steez compilex rod so Im having a hard time understanding why anyone that buys a $500 Steez rod is buying and using a $89 Vendetta rod. Its gotta feel strange when you switch form the Steez to the Vendetta. Be like going from a BMW to a Kia.

I have a friend who owns a rod manufactering company in Korea. They spin their own blanks and such

he said that no matter how expensive the rod is the blank it's self when it's first made costs no more than 15$ for even the extremely top end rods like the 1,000 evergreen the rest of the cost is componets and then from there they like to make at least 100% profit but try fo 200% if they can

I am a rod builder for a living for a small manufacturer/saltwater retail store in the northeast. You guys would be amazed by the cost of some "high end" blanks from major manufacturers if you're on their top end programs.

I could build a SCV St Croix with Fuji titanium guides for under $200. Things that drive the costs up are Matagi seats which can run $30+ wholesale but a simple Fuji ESC seat runs only $3-$5.

That being said, why don't I build freshwater rods my self. Well, I have. But when you make rods 8-10 hours a day it's a job and not a hobby.

So how much does the SCV blank cost?

[Diablos]

Dude, if you dont think the Cumulus is worth paying 3x the cost of a Vendetta then dont buy a Cumulus but I think you will find it impossible to get any knowledgeable fishermen to believe you.

Remember, there is a reason the Vendette costs $89 and the Cumulus is $349. The Cumulus blank costs more to produce than the entire Vendette rod. Im not knocking the Vendetta rod but that the way it is.

You said you have a Steez compilex rod so Im having a hard time understanding why anyone that buys a $500 Steez rod is buying and using a $89 Vendetta rod. Its gotta feel strange when you switch form the Steez to the Vendetta. Be like going from a BMW to a Kia.

I have a friend who owns a rod manufactering company in Korea. They spin their own blanks and such

he said that no matter how expensive the rod is the blank it's self when it's first made costs no more than 15$ for even the extremely top end rods like the 1,000 evergreen the rest of the cost is componets and then from there they like to make at least 100% profit but try fo 200% if they can

I am a rod builder for a living for a small manufacturer/saltwater retail store in the northeast. You guys would be amazed by the cost of some "high end" blanks from major manufacturers if you're on their top end programs.

I could build a SCV St Croix with Fuji titanium guides for under $200. Things that drive the costs up are Matagi seats which can run $30+ wholesale but a simple Fuji ESC seat runs only $3-$5.

That being said, why don't I build freshwater rods my self. Well, I have. But when you make rods 8-10 hours a day it's a job and not a hobby.

uh-oh, now it's really going to hit the fan ...

The point I was trying to make was after a certain price point high end rods become a profit machine for manufacturers.

If I broke down the Vendetta into pieces and used a Chinese blank such as a Rainshadow. A similar blank would  cost about $5 in China. I'm pretty sure they use Pacific Bay guides which here in the states would cost $8-10 wholesale buying oem from PacBay. The EVA grips are are pennies and the Fuji seat maybe $2-3. Including the labor that rod would cost about $17-$19 to make.

Now if you have to box it ship to the US via sea shipment and Big Rock Sport's(Henry's which is a major wholesale distributor) buys it from Abu for a 25-30% markup($25) then Henry's wholesales it for $37-$42 depending on model: which is a fact. Then it goes to small tackle shop for $79.99. Big box stores buy direct from Abu allowing them to make more profit.

[steezy]

I would put the Vendetta rods somewhere in the middle or a bit above other high end rods!

I don't think a $89 Vendettea can be considered a high end rod.

[Diablos]

St. Croix 5C70HF-B blank  = $195 retail

    = $101~ distributor

    = $78 oem wholesale

[b.Lee]

That is some good insight, but it is how the market and profits work.

[Slip Gun]

Dude, if you dont think the Cumulus is worth paying 3x the cost of a Vendetta then dont buy a Cumulus but I think you will find it impossible to get any knowledgeable fishermen to believe you.

Remember, there is a reason the Vendette costs $89 and the Cumulus is $349. The Cumulus blank costs more to produce than the entire Vendette rod. Im not knocking the Vendetta rod but that the way it is.

You said you have a Steez compilex rod so Im having a hard time understanding why anyone that buys a $500 Steez rod is buying and using a $89 Vendetta rod. Its gotta feel strange when you switch form the Steez to the Vendetta. Be like going from a BMW to a Kia.

I have a friend who owns a rod manufactering company in Korea. They spin their own blanks and such

he said that no matter how expensive the rod is the blank it's self when it's first made costs no more than 15$ for even the extremely top end rods like the 1,000 evergreen the rest of the cost is componets and then from there they like to make at least 100% profit but try fo 200% if they can

I am a rod builder for a living for a small manufacturer/saltwater retail store in the northeast. You guys would be amazed by the cost of some "high end" blanks from major manufacturers if you're on their top end programs.

I could build a SCV St Croix with Fuji titanium guides for under $200. Things that drive the costs up are Matagi seats which can run $30+ wholesale but a simple Fuji ESC seat runs only $3-$5.

That being said, why don't I build freshwater rods my self. Well, I have. But when you make rods 8-10 hours a day it's a job and not a hobby.

uh-oh, now it's really going to hit the fan ...

The point I was trying to make was after a certain price point high end rods become a profit machine for manufacturers.

If I broke down the Vendetta into pieces and used a Chinese blank such as a Rainshadow. A similar blank would cost about $5 in China. I'm pretty sure they use Pacific Bay guides which here in the states would cost $8-10 wholesale buying oem from PacBay. The EVA grips are are pennies and the Fuji seat maybe $2-3. Including the labor that rod would cost about $17-$19 to make.

Now if you have to box it ship to the US via sea shipment and Big Rock Sport's(Henry's which is a major wholesale distributor) buys it from Abu for a 25-30% markup($25) then Henry's wholesales it for $37-$42 depending on model: which is a fact. Then it goes to small tackle shop for $79.99. Big box stores buy direct from Abu allowing them to make more profit.

What is being forgotten here is the difference between a high end rod and a low end rod is partly parts - partly they money poured into design. For instance a Gloomis GLX - imagine how many people have spent how many hours to design the blank and decide where exactly to mount all the parts. Rods that expensive do not sell in huge quantity so economies of scale does not help as much as it could. Now think about advertising, warranty, ect.

When you buy something you are paying for much more then the components to build it.

If you were paying just for the components to make things you would get every piece of software from the store for under 3 bucks. :

Edit : Also don't forget you probably need more expensive machines for the higher quality blanks to have the quality control.

[Diablos]

Most of the machines are the same in turning the blanks. It's the material and the mandrels that change.

Not to downplay man-hours in the design of blanks, but guide placement is a fairly simple job. If you notice most rod companies use the same guide placement in the top 50% of their rods. On their lower end rods to save money they will skip a guide or two altogether.

As for warranties, companies will not do anything to lose money. The high end rods are marked up to a point that they can offer a white glove warranty and still make money if you break it once. I want to see how Evergreen reacts when you call them for your third or fourth breakage. They might be willing to lose a customer at that point.

[Pantera61]

Most of the machines are the same in turning the blanks. It's the material and the mandrels that change.

Not to downplay man-hours in the design of blanks, but guide placement is a fairly simple job. If you notice most rod companies use the same guide placement in the top 50% of their rods. On their lower end rods to save money they will skip a guide or two altogether.

As for warranties, companies will not do anything to lose money. The high end rods are marked up to a point that they can offer a white glove warranty and still make money if you break it once. I want to see how Evergreen reacts when you call them for your third or fourth breakage. They might be willing to lose a customer at that point.

In the States, they ain't gonna lose any sleep. No warranty on Evergreen unless you bought from one company through a very small window of time.

[Dan:]

St. Croix 5C70HF-B blank = $195 retail

= $101~ distributor

= $78 oem wholesale

That's a heck of a lot more than $15!

[Diablos]

St. Croix 5C70HF-B blank = $195 retail

= $101~ distributor

= $78 oem wholesale

That's a heck of a lot more than $15!

haha

$78 is the bottom price that St Croix will sell that blank to any company on their top buying program. I think you have to spend 40K a year to get that price.

I have no clue what it costs St Croix to actually make that blank but i would guess it's a little more than any top end Diawa or Shimano blank since it's 100% American.

[0119]

If the price of a GLX includes the mental and physical man hours of development, they have recouped their $ hundreds of times over. Considering how many years that model has been out. With trinkle down technology what shimano is known for the GLX should be the price of a gl2.