Opinions On Kistler Argon TS Casting Rods?

[BassThumb]

I'm interested in a Kistler Argon TS worm rod - AFW72C - 7'2" MH/F. It's intended to bridge the gap between a GL Mossyback BCFR892 and a Dobyns Champion 766, and to be used for mostly casting, but also pitching mid sized worms and brush hogs/beavers, 3/8 - 1/2 oz jigs, and 6" Senkos around moderate cover.

Does anybody have experience with this rod or with Kistler Argon TS rods in general that they would like to share? I would particularly like to know how they balance and if they are tip heavy, and also how they compare in sensitivity to the Shimano Crucial and St. Croix Avid lines. If I don't get this rod I will be using a Avid 7' MH/F to fit the bill, but I would prefer to keep using that for large spinnerbaits.

I'm shaking up and expanding my technique specific lineup and I'd appreciate your feedback.

Thanks, Joe

[barroncooper]

I love them.  been hard to find though

[Uncle Leo]

I have one and it balances nicely with a 7 oz. reel. It is pretty sensitive and has good backbone. I fished it from a 1/16 oz to a 3/8 oz weight and it casts well. No experience with any weights heavier. I may consider selling mine if you are interested. I replaced it with a Falcon Cara and it does not get much use any longer. It's sensitivity is comparable to a Crucial and Avid both of which I have also used.

[burleytog]

I love them. been hard to find though

They were discontinued.  Only one year on the market.

[dodgeguy]

all rods are tip heavy.balance has nothing to do with reel weight.kistler makes some very nice rods.i do have to wonder why they only made them one year.

[BassThumb]

I love them. been hard to find though

They were discontinued. Only one year on the market.

This is true. "We could only stock so many rods lines this year due to limited capital, slow economy", says Trey Kistler a.k.a. Kistlero on the company website forum. The prices are cut in half on remaining stock from certain places, with some useful sticks still remaining.

http://www.kistlerrods.com/fishing-rod/plugins/forum/about6587.html

[BassThumb]

It's sensitivity is comparable to a Crucial and Avid both of which I have also used.

Hmmm, I was hoping to hear that it was significantly more sensitive, considering the MSRP's of the rods are $160, 190, and 230.

[BassThumb]

all rods are tip heavy.balance has nothing to do with reel weight.

Yes, most rod are tip heavy to an extent, some more than others, because not all rods balance perfectly at the reel seat. Most seem to balance around the middle of the foregrip where the anglers index finger sits. For those, since the foregrip is the balance point and not the reel seat, the reel's weight acts as a counter balance, and has very much to do with the balance and feel of the combo. Try swapping a 200 sized reel with a 300 size, and you'll see what I mean.

[DINK WHISPERER]

I had the Argon 7' 1" H/F and it was too tip heavy and heavier than my Powells over all. I sold it on the flea market and got another Powell.

[LAO162]

I have two Argons, but don't have enough experience them to speak with certainty. Also, they have actions unlike any of my other rods, so I haven't yet determine how the slower / soft actions impact the perception of sensitivity.

My first Argon was the 6'11 MH Finesse spinning rod. It has a lot of backbone, but a very soft tip. Doing the standard tap & drag tests on the carpet, it is hard it gauge sensitivity. In its limited time at the water, I felt more than I expected when using a Senko.

On the other hand, I'm blown away by the Argon 6'9" Crankbait rod. It's got a very light blank and rated only to only 15lb. I feel more of the crankbait and the bottom than I do with my Fenwick Techna AV 7'0" MF rod. The Techna AV is much beefier. The AFCB69C is also very good with a Senko & small weightless plastics. Although it is not as sensitive as my Kistler Helium II LTX, it is the rod I can't wait to put into my hands again Not apples to apples, but similar blank size/weight, I feel the AFCB69C was probably more sensitive than my Crucial 6'6" MXF spinning rod. Since I had been using the AFBC69C, my new to me IMX SJR723 did not seem to live up to the hype (not complaining though ).

The AFCB69C with a Revo balanced just at the hook hanger, about 1 1/2 inches up the blank from the reel seat. The AFF611S balances about 4 inches up from the stem? of a 2500 size reel. It is light, but not as light as the crankbait rod.

Obviously, I need more experience with these rods to post definitive impressions, but yesterday I almost ordered another Crankbait Argon. I'm still not sure about keeping the Finesse spinning rod because I'm not confident I need a rod with such a soft tip. I'm thinking Shakey head and trebles.

BTW, these Argon rods are different in that the Crankbait rod has a slender, stiffer blank with a slower action. On the other hand, the Finesse rod has a beefier blank and faster action, but a softer tip.

Due to the Argon Crankbait and LTX rods, for the time beining my two Techna AV's have gone to the "not in service" section of my rod rack.

I'm curious about the Argon worm rods where sensitivity is so important.

Leon

[Uncle Leo]

It's sensitivity is comparable to a Crucial and Avid both of which I have also used.

Hmmm, I was hoping to hear that it was significantly more sensitive, considering the MSRP's of the rods are $160, 190, and 230.

I should clarify a bit. With lighter weights I do find the Argon more sensitive. With lighter weights I am more depended upon line watching and the sensitivity of the line. With fluorocarbon line and lighter weights I do find the Argon superior. With heavier weights it is comparable. Taken this into consideration I must say that the Argon is more sensitive. It is not always you would fish in wind and current, I like to use the lightest weight possible for any condition.

One other thing if you like to throw a weightless Senko the Argon is also superior as it loads up well. If you can get one for half price I would jump on it.

[Uncle Leo]

I love them. been hard to find though

They were discontinued. Only one year on the market.

This is true. "We could only stock so many rods lines this year due to limited capital, slow economy", says Trey Kistler a.k.a. Kistlero on the company website forum. The prices are cut in half on remaining stock from certain places, with some useful sticks still remaining.

http://www.kistlerrods.com/fishing-rod/plugins/forum/about6587.html

I think this may have had more to do with the amount of rods they sold versus the quality of this rod. With this market you can hardly blame them, they must sell rods to survive. With the influx of $ 100 rods into the market this year all of good quality higher priced rods probably will not move.

[LAO162]

If you compare the entire 2010 lineup vs. the 2009 lineup, you can see that it has been simplified greatly.  If you have very specific needs that aren't available in one of the remaining standard configurations, you'll need to go the custom or Z-Bone route.

It's kind of like going from the Toyota format where there are many models, multiple levels and dozens of options to the Honda business model where there are basically a handful on packages from which to choose.  The Honda business model definitely makes it easier to manage inventory and streamline manufacturing.

Whether or not it's purely a new emphasis by Kistler to focus upon the Z-Bone and customization, it is a business decision to simplify their standard offerings.

From a purchasers perspective, it may be risky to purchase a closeout Argon.  On the other hand, the huge discounts may be incentive to take a chance.

Although I personally prefer to purchase products from companies that have stable product lines from year to year, I don't think I could have purchased rods as nice as the Argon without the steep discounts due to the constantly changing product line.  If they do well for me next year, next Spring I'll be searching for the discontinued 2010 models 

[dodgeguy]

all rods are tip heavy.balance has nothing to do with reel weight.

Yes, most rod are tip heavy to an extent, some more than others, because not all rods balance perfectly at the reel seat. Most seem to balance around the middle of the foregrip where the anglers index finger sits. For those, since the foregrip is the balance point and not the reel seat, the reel's weight acts as a counter balance, and has very much to do with the balance and feel of the combo. Try swapping a 200 sized reel with a 300 size, and you'll see what I mean.

i beg to differ.most fishermen do not hold the rod by the foregrip.most (not all) palm the reel.this makes the fulcrum point the center of the reel seat meaning reel weight has nothing to do with balance.i've never seen a rod that balances itself at the foregrip and neither has tackle tour.the rods they test all balance 9 to 11 inches up from the reel seat.now if you like a tip heavy rod or a rod that balances at the foregrip then you are right about the reel having an effect.but for most of us who hold the rod by palming the reel or hold a spinning rod with the neck coming out the center of the 4 main fingers the correct balnce point is the center of the reel seat.

[BassThumb]

I think we're pretty much on the same page, dodgeguy. I misspoke, and should clarify. With a reel on, the rods fulcrum is generally around the foregrip area, where an angler's index finger sits while palming the reel. Some rods are so tip heavy, even with a reel on, that the fulcrum is farther up the rod blank than the index finger point I mentioned. This constitutes an excessively tip heavy rod IMO, and one that will feel funny and cause fatigue. Some flipping sticks are like this, and this is what I'm trying to avoid.

[BassThumb]

Thanks a lot for the advice on Argons.  I appreciate it.  But I chose to jump on a used Dobyns instead.

[mixmasterg]

I'm ready to pull the trigger on a argon spinnerbait rod and a worm rod are they light like the LTA's??

[SDoolittle]

I'm ready to pull the trigger on a argon spinnerbait rod and a worm rod are they light like the LTA's??

No.

[dude loves to fish]

I have the Argon crankbait rod and it is a great rod. Very light and the sensitivity is out of this world. And now with their new micro guides, they are even more sensitive and lighter. Since Kistler has discountinued the Argons, I have now gone to the new Z Bones and am enjoying them even more.