Tungsten Or Lead??????

[Catt]

While I don't have any FLW/Bassmaster trophies I will gladly show you some Redman, Bass-N-Bucks, McDonald's Big Bass Splash and numerous others.

The feeling y'all get from using tungsten I feel with lead so when I use tungsten I feel no difference. On a calm day I can feel a ¼ ounce lead bullet weight hit bottom in 15' of water, I can feel ever twig, strand of grass, or anything else the weight comes in contact with that is an advantage of being an Ole Timer.

The ideas of lead poisoning fish or duck to total hog wash since very few fish and practically no ducks feed on bottom muck where the lead ends up. Think about it how many fish actually root around on the bottom like a hog roots on the forest floor?

Yes there is a time and place in which I use tungsten and brass-n-glass

[FishTank]

IMHO, tungsten is not worth the price but for me it does work better than lead. I will use it occasionally but not on a regular basis. I also like jigs made out of Bismuth from Outcast.

As far as the study goes with the effects of lead on the environment, I have a little bit of experience with one (Spahn and Sherry 1999 Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology) . Here are two links to read. The first is the credentials and work of T.W. Sherry and the second is brief summary.

http://www.tulane.edu/~profe/Dr.%20Sherry/tsCV.htm

http://www.lenntech.com/aquatic/metals-lead.htm

Tungsten also does not seem to be 100% eco friendly.

http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/W-en.htm

Just some food for thought.

[Catt]

I know this has gotten totally off subject but examine the facts

One part of the study on lead shot that is suspect is the following In the United States, where the problem has been most investigated, some 6000 tons of spent shot are deposited each year and a minimum of 2.4 million waterfowl, out of a total North American population of 100 million, die annually of lead poisoning due to ingestion of shot. Where is all this birds at? With the numbers that high you should see birds laying all over the marshes and fields but yet you don't see any. The question is if lead is indeed that harmful why is it legal to hunt doves with lead shot in the same fields that ducks feed in.

Ducks are usually classified into two broad groups the dabblers and the divers.

The dabblers are surface-feeding ducks. Frequently, they are called "puddle ducks". They prefer small, shallow, inland lakes, ponds, marshes, and creeks. Dabbling ducks obtain their food by tipping up, rather than by diving.

The more common dabbling ducks are the mallard, black duck, gadwall, green-winged teal, blue-winged teal, baldpate (American widgeon), pintail, shoveler, and wood duck.

The divers are sometimes called "sea ducks" or "bay ducks". They are ducks of more open bodies of water. Some are common on lakes and rivers of the interior. Diving ducks dive for their food and feed underwater.

The more common diving ducks are the redhead, ring-necked duck, canvasback, greater scaup, lesser scaup, common golden eye, and bufflehead.

Food. As a group, the dabblers feed upon a variety of water plants: forest mast such as oaks, ash, and sweetgum; many water and land animals from insects to clams; and the seeds of many farm crops, grasses, and weeds.

Diving ducks feed mainly on aquatic foods, but there is a great diversity among species. For the most part, redheads and canvasbacks eat plants. Scaup eat both plants and animals. Maritime divers feed mostly on animals.

So my question is how these ducks ingest the lead since they do not swim around on the bottom scoping up the bottom contents?

[FishTank]

I wanted to satisfy my curiousity so I contacted Dale Humburg, the chief biologist for Ducks Unlimited and asked these questions....

What would cause a duck to eat lead shot?  What in their diet would offer up an oppurtunity to eat lead?  Is it a real threat to the duck population?

Here is his e-mailed response.

Regarding your question about ducks eating lead shot, considerable work was conducted over the entire 20th century about lead ingestion and lead poisoning.  This ultimately resulted in regulations requiring the use of nontoxic ammunition for waterfowl hunting.  Ducks pick up lead pellets that are mistaken for hard seeds or grit as birds are feeding in shallow water.  The lead is ground in the gizzard, taken up in the digestive tract, and ultimately interferes with a wide range of physiological functions.  In a number of instances birds died as a result of lead ingestion and, through the years when lead was used for waterfowl hunting, lead poisoning die-offs were not uncommon.  Since nontoxic regulations were implemented, I know of very few instances where notable lead poising losses have occurred.  Lead poisoning was one of a number of sources of annual duck mortality that could be addressed directly.  While not the most important source of mortality, it was one that could be essentially eliminated.

I wanted to know for myself, nothing against lead.  I will continue to use it until a better/reasonable allternative is available.  

PS

The only ducks I have seen die of lead poisoning are the ones that I am lucky enough to shoot.

[Crestliner2008]

FishTank - THANKS  for the great articles! Very enlightening indeed. I'll continue to use steel (lots cheaper than tungsten & legal, for the time being - until they determine that rust poisoning is a problem  ;D.

[Ballpark Frank]

Moving back to the topic. I only recently(last year) started fishing plastics and alot of my reasoning was money. I got tired of the cost of unretrievable lost lures, primarily cranks and swimbaits. Now I find that I should spend $4-$6 on 4 weights to use my $3 bag of lizards, to throw in cover with a greater chance of snags and breaks. No way, I will continue to use lead and occasionally brass.

[Matt Fly]

There are times that some noise attracts fish and sometimes it doesn't.

I don't see how a 1/2 oz lead bullet weight makes that much of a difference on a 12 inch worm when TX rigged.    

   Whats the deal?   Tungsten changes the profile by how much in length.

          A Texas rigged worm doesn't make that much noise unless you add a bead or something.    Most of us push the worm over the eye, thus no metal to metal.

    A carolina sinker with a 4 foot leader only matters if you have added something in there to make noise with it.

A smart fishermen will use the cheaper lead when he can get away with it so he can save his expensive tackle for when the conditons calls for something smaller in size.

   What looks better?    a baby brush hog rigged with a 1/4 oz lead bullet  or the same with 1/4 tungsten.

Ducks eating lead is the lesser issue.   Its ducks that have been wounded, that arent bad enough or life threatening at the time, but lead will eventually cause lead posining later after the wound healed.      

   Thus, the laws were changed for migratory birds.

I'd start buys some alternative weights.     One of these years, just like in huntng, you will see lead free tackle, and thats gonna make things go Higher in price unless theres a cheaper metal out there.

   

[Tpayneful]

I don't think Catt and I are even contest that Tungsten is more expensive.  If you don't think it isn't worth the cost....good for you.  I was at a Fishing Seminar yesterday and Shaw Grigsby said that he only uses Tungsten.   He had three reasons.

1. Smaller profile

2. It is harder thus transmitted vibrations better

3. The weight doesn't get hung in the bass' mouth when you set the hook therefore it will not interfere with the hookset.

I started using Tungsten weights last year and I have only one reason that I use it.  I can feel the bottom, cover and a fish bite better than with lead which I believe helps me catch more fish.  A. I want to catch more fish and B. I can afford the weights.  Also, I have a lure retreiver which has a 100% retrieval rate when it has been used.