Greasing gears in a reel, what's the proper way??

[The Rooster]

Here's a dumb question since I've been doing this for years already. How do you properly grease a set of gears for a baitcast reel?? Main gear and pinion gear.

I normally just slowly turn the main gear and apply grease as I turn it to where each tooth is filled to level, with no excess beyond what it takes to do this. Anymore and the grease gets shoveled off to the sides and piles up in the corners of the reel, gets into bearings and slows their rotation, and all that bad stuff. But it seems that this is still not enough to completely remove grinding feeling from a retrieve. So I'm at a loss for what to do further to improve things.

To let you know what I did prior to this, incase it matters for this issue, I cleaned the gears using dishwashing soap and a toothbrush, dried thoroughly, and then applied the grease to the dry gears (always do this when I clean reels). This works on some of my reels and not for others. It's like it's a hit or miss thing. They're all the same reels, BPS Extremes. The gears were as clean as they could be, just shiny brass, no dirt, no water, no wear that I can see though I'm sure some is there.

Any ideas for improving things (besides replacing the reels for Curados, though I'm starting to NOT be opposed to this)?? Surely the Extreme reel is not THAT bad of a reel. But I do have to say I never had this issue in a Garcia or Quantum, the only other brands of casting reels I ever owned and serviced myself. They were a one shot deal, lube and done, worked perfect afterwards.

Also, I'm using Zebco branded grease and oil. 

[Big Bait Fishing]

i know you don't want hear this but i think you might make the move away from the extremes , just seem like they don't last  :-/ you know you want to , just go ahead and do it already  ;D ;D ;D

[ib_of_the_damned]

I have been wanting to know about this too. I want to be able to service my reels properly, the only thing that I have done is break them down to clean the dirt and grime and give a few drops of oil here and there. I haven't gotten around to greasing the gears yet. I really hope you get an answer.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Applying grease to fill the contact areas of the clean, dry gears is correct. Wear, misalignment, bad bearings are some of the things that can affect the smoothness of a reel. Proper cleaning and lube does wonders for any reel, but it can't make up for material or design issues.

[The Rooster]

I'm starting to think these Extremes aren't really that well built after all. I have 5 of them, and just cleaned one thoroughly for a friend too, so I have experience with 6 in all.

My friend's reel came out flawlessly, his is so smooth now that it makes my 5 look bad. And when he first sent it to me it felt slightly rough as well. I cleaned it just as described above and now it feels like new again. That was its first cleaning. When I did mine previously they all came out like this too, after their first times.

But now that I'm on the second or third cleaning of some of them I just cannot make them to feel new again it seems. First, I had one straight out of the box get rough on me after only 5 times of using it. I could have easily sent it back for a replacement but I did not since BPS was going to send me a newer model different from the rest. I'd have had one odd reel after that and I didn't want that so I just kept it for a "parts reel" incase something happened to the other 4. I cleaned it after deciding to keep it, but it didn't help. With the rest of them, seems after a while they develop roughness too, and eventually there's nothing you do can take it out. I've cleaned them in the past and restored it on a couple, and now it's back again. This time I can't get it out, and I used the same techniques as before, same materials too.

And this time I did something I've never done before too. Took the handle paddles off to see how they were made. They didn't need anything done to them but I just wanted to know. I discovered one bearing on one end of the axle, and a nylon bushing on the other end. That will not last and it's no wonder I have one reel here now that has a little handle vibration, as it's the oldest one and does not have handle bearings, so I guess it just has 2 nylon bushings in it. What a crock!! Seems I bought disposable reels after all.

It still casts like a dream. Reels in just fine. I just don't enjoy using it since I can feel that little roughness as it comes in. Now knowing the handles will wear in eventually takes the fun out of it altogether.

All I have to say now is.....Shimano or Daiwa............here I come!!

[The Rooster]

Applying grease to fill the contact areas of the clean, dry gears is correct. Wear, misalignment, bad bearings are some of the things that can affect the smoothness of a reel. Proper cleaning and lube does wonders for any reel, but it can't make up for material or design issues.

I guess it's possible that some things inside can be out of alignment.  Must be from wear over time.  Everything went back in just the way it came out and the reel functions and operates just fine.  I just don't like the way it feels. 

[ksbasser]

  I don't want to start any arguments with this post or any brand wars but, I get very tired of seeing guys bash BPS reels. They sell some reels that are excelent quality and some that are not. The extreme is one of the best reels for the price that there is. PERIOD. Is it built as good as some $200 to $400 reels? NO. But it is built just as good as many reels for twice the price. If you use them a lot, every reel made will wear down. Thats why they sell replacement parts. If you expect that you can simply clean a reel, year after year and have it stay new, then you have been misled. You can't do that with any brand. You certainly can;t do that with a Shimano. Look at some other recent posts. Many Curado owners report that the reel felt rough out of the box. Many say that the backplay in a curado drives them nuts. many say they are the best ever. I have serviced over 1000 reels, a mixture of every brand there is, in the last year. I have found that every brand will need replacement parts after a certain amount of use. I have seen many shimano reels that are a year or two old that have seriously worn parts. The good news is that most of those parts are not expensive. As for the handle issue you saw. Thats the same for every brand. The cheaper reels may not have any bearings in the handle and the most expensive will have 4. the med priced reels will have plastic and one bearing. Curado reels didn't have any bearings or bushings in the handle untill just the last few years. If you listen to BPS bashers long enough, you will start to beleive them. What they don't tell you is that thier reels have the same problems that yours do.

[rubba bubba]

You may want to flush in some degreaser in the line guide, and then blow it out with an air compressor. Many times you'll get granules of dirt hidden in there that you can't get to without some stout air.

[J Francho]

Proper greasing starts with a spotless cleaning.  No point in doing anything if the reel isn't completely stripped down and scrubbed clean.  A small paiunt brush with, trimmed to about 1/4" works for greasing gears.  I press the grease into each tooth with the brush.  If you're lust filling the teeth up to the peaks, you aren't getting deep into the teeth, and probably using too much.

[NBR]

Whwen gears are messed there is a bit of clearance between the root of one gear and the bottom of the other. There is also a bit of side clearance between the gear tooth and the mating side. More grease than the cumulative space available just squeezes out.

I put a layer over the tip openings of the larger gear and let pinion push the grease into the gear. This eliminates having a lot of excess grease inside the reel to be cleaned out the next year.

I am not a reel repair guy but I did spend some years designing gears.

[BassThumb]

I strip it completely, clean the main body and parts parts with degreaser soap and hot water, and dry with a towel and some compressed air. Then I lightly grease the gears with my fingertip, reassemble and give each bearing a shot of oil, spin the gears and collect the excess grease that squeezed out with a Q-Tip.

I'm going to try J Francho's idea of using a trimmed paintbrush to spread the grease next time.

[J Francho]

Its neater.  Less cleanup that way.  I used to over coat the gears, let them mesh, and wipe off the excess that squeezed out.  You definitely don't want gear grease in the drag stack, burns up too easily.

[BassThumb]

Its neater. Less cleanup that way. I used to over coat the gears, let them mesh, and wipe off the excess that squeezed out. You definitely don't want gear grease in the drag stack, burns up too easily.

If you're not using gear grease on the drag, what are you using? I use the same Hot Sauce grease on the gears as I do on the drag washers. Am I missing something?

[J Francho]

Cal's or Shimano drag grease.

[BassThumb]

Ok, thx. You say that gear grease in the drag will burn up faster than the drag grease will?

I usually grease my reels twice a year, with a complete cleaning in Spring and a quick lube in August.

[J Francho]

Yes, twice now

[Steve1357]

Rooster, it takes time, but to find the answer to the source of the rough feel, start swapping parts around.

On my many Abu round reels over the years, I've replaced two pinion gears to get rid of the rough feel, they were smooth as new afterwards. To describe what it feels like, you can turn the handle and you can feel each tooth mesh.

If you haven't yet, pick up an ultrasonic cleaner. Amazing what it will do with hot water and a little Dawn dishwashing detergent, you'll see the crud float out of the bearings and gears and save the abuse on your hands from chemicals...

[BobP]

Most guys over-grease and the excess is thrown or squeezed out of the gears in the first minute of use, becoming reel gunk.  I put a thin coat of grease around the main gear, then brush it into every tooth with a 1/4" brush.  When done, there's no excess to be thrown out.  If you don't disassemble-clean-lube the level wind system, it's a great candidate retrieve vibration (as is a worn level wind pawl). If your gears are noisy, try greasing them with Shimano Drag Grease instead of regular grease.  It can sometimes quiet noisy or nicked gears until they can run in and become smooth again.  The IAR bearing is another vibration suspect.  Soak/agitate the IAR side plate in naphtha, dry and oil it.  Yes it's a pain to do a 100% disassembly/clean/lube but unless you service every moving part of a reel, you can't if a vibration or other problem is cause by a bad part, wear, or just dirt where there should be none. 

[J Francho]

If it looks like this, you did it the right way.

[skunked_again]

If it looks like this, you did it the right way.

this could be the next big thing on the forum.....

identify this reel in its disassembled state. 

that reel looks like a Daiwa of some sort.

[The Rooster]

That reel is a Daiwa.  And that's what mine looked like.  No two parts left sticking together.....except on the magnetic sideplate.  Saw no real need to remove the magnet assembly from the sideplate.  But otherwise I took EVERYTHING apart including the levelwind and also the thumb bar.  I even slid the sleeve out of the clutch bearing and removed the bearing from the sideplate it was in.  I mean if I could take it off the reel then it came off.  Sure is a smooth functioning device now but I hate feeling the gear teeth.  I do admit that I likely overgreased it.  I probably did overgrease it.  I'll try the paintbrush trick next time.  But even if I did overgrease it, how can I still feel the gear meshings?? 

[ksbasser]

If it is definitely the gear teeth causing the rough feel, then simply call the customer service gals at the Springfield BPS rod and reel repair center. Tell them the model number and ratio and order a new set of gears. I think they are $6 to $8 for a set or there abouts. It wouldn't surprise me to find that the rough feel is the worm gear and pawl. try removing the pawl cap and pawl. Then crank the reel. If it's still rough, then it's probably the main gear and pinion gear

[J Francho]

That reel is a Daiwa. And that's what mine looked like. No two parts left sticking together.....except on the magnetic sideplate. Saw no real need to remove the magnet assembly from the sideplate. But otherwise I took EVERYTHING apart including the levelwind and also the thumb bar. I even slid the sleeve out of the clutch bearing and removed the bearing from the sideplate it was in. I mean if I could take it off the reel then it came off. Sure is a smooth functioning device now but I hate feeling the gear teeth. I do admit that I likely overgreased it. I probably did overgrease it. I'll try the paintbrush trick next time. But even if I did overgrease it, how can I still feel the gear meshings??

Black Widow II, or Poor Man's Presso, LOL.

I inspect the magnets on the palm side, and unless its difficult to adjust, or dirty, I leave it.  Its pretty simple, though If you remember that when the hash marks are aligned, the brakes are set to zero.  The parts that can get dirty are in the adjustment knob itself, but you have to remove the magnet stack to get at it.

[BassThumb]

That muffin pan is perfect for this.

[Deputy Dave]

Rooster

You called your Extremes "disposable" in one of your earlier post. I couldn't agree more. I've had at least 10 of them over the last 15yrs or so and I excepted the fact that they sell for $40-$50 (on-sale) for a reason. I don't think that I've ever got more than 2 seasons out of one before they have all started showing the symptoms that your experiencing. If I've decided to stay with an Extreme reel for the rod that it's on I throw the bad one away and buy another one the next time they go on-sale. The Extremes that I have now and the one's I've had over the years are used only on cheap BPS rods and used only for farm pond and strip pit fishing when I'm in the metal John boat. (when the likelihood of breaking a rod and/or damaging other equipment is greatly increased) When I'm in the Skeeter either tournament or just out fun fishing my Extremes and BPS rods don't make the trip. Serious fishing is done exclusively with my various Shimano's and my Revo's.

I would just look at them as an expendable item and accept that they will need to be replaced often or like you have already mentioned, buy some higher end reels.