Problems with closed-face spincast reels???

[Oldbritguy]

My local fishing spot has lots of big bass buried in heavy weeds. Only way to get 'em is dropping a lure into small gaps.

The only way I can do this is using a closed-face spincast reel and an overhand catapult cast (holding the hook and putting a big bend in the rod) that throws the lure accurately about 30 - 40 feet into the holes in the weeds. Works really well for casting. But the problem is neither of my two spincast reels seem very happy handling big fish. Do not reel in very smoothly, line often goes slack, poor drag, etc. etc. Unfortunately this cast can not be done with a baitcaster or a spinning reel.

Do I need more practice using the spincast reels - or maybe another brand - or is this an inherent problem with this design concept?

Oldbritguy

[IwillChooseFreeWill]

You can cast almost anything into any spot with any reel with enough practice. Right now my accuracy sucks on anything except spinning reels.

[5bass]

[movedhere] General Bass Fishing Forum [move by] five.bass.limit.

[grimlin]

Spin cast reels do not have the drag power to pull anything out of the slop or weeds.

This is where the technique "flipping" with a baitcaster with a powerful drag system comes to play.

I'm not sure i want to be holding the hook and bending the rod...that sounds like a disaster/accident waiting to happen. 

[Crestliner2008]

I think you may want to try the "pitching" technique for your application. You can find tons of information here on pitching, as well as online, doing a Google search. You can pitch using a baitcasting rig or open-faced spinning rig.

As far as you spincaster goes, do you have an "on-off" anti-reverse switch? If you do, turn it off (allowing the reel handle to turn in either direction) and crank down the drag rather tight. This way you can "back-reel" to control your fish vs. trying to rely on the reel to do it.

Better yet, get yourself a good 6'6" - 7' Med-Hvy Spinning rod and a series 4000 reel to match. Load this with 20# PowerPro and use about a 2', 17# test fluorocarbon leader. This kind of rig will get bass out of anywhere!

[Grey Wolf]

What every one is trying to say is "GET RID OF THE SPINCAST" and get an outfit that will do the job.

[grimlin]

I think you may want to try the "pitching" technique for your application. You can find tons of information here on pitching, as well as online, doing a Google search. You can pitch using a baitcasting rig or open-faced spinning rig.

As far as you spincaster goes, do you have an "on-off" anti-reverse switch? If you do, turn it off (allowing the reel handle to turn in either direction) and crank down the drag rather tight. This way you can "back-reel" to control your fish vs. trying to rely on the reel to do it.

Better yet, get yourself a good 6'6" - 7' Med-Hvy Spinning rod and a series 4000 reel to match. Load this with 20# PowerPro and use about a 2', 17# test fluorocarbon leader. This kind of rig will get bass out of anywhere!

well,now that i realize it.....flipping would be hard at 30-40 feet...Not sure why i said flipping at this point.Brain fart maybe?

But ditto on what  Crestliner2008 said.

[Red Bear]

closed face reels can handle big fish...in open water. but if your pulling fish through heavy/thick grass and weeds you should be using atleast a spinning reel. i love bass fishing an open pond with my zebco 33, its fun because the 33 isnt a heavy set up. but it seems to me your problem is accuracy with your casts. that catapult cast you speak of seems dangerous. you should set up buckets 30-40 feet away in your yard and practice casting into them to improve accuracy. as far as the quality of your spincast reels, try cleaning them and greasing the gears and such, maybe theyll reel smoothly then. not much you can do about the drag on them, just learn to fight the fish a bit longer, work your rod more to gain leverage on the fish, its not all about the reel power everytime. i cant explain the line going slack though, may be something in your technique...

[The Rooster]

Doing that type of cast isn't so bad, danger wise. Just make sure you grasp the hook in the J bend of it BELOW the hook point, not above. If it's a lure with trebles, grasp the REAR treble hook by one J bend of the three, not the bait body and not the front hook. Just make sure you don't aim it at anyone. Just like shooting a gun at an event where there are more people than just yourself present, you just have to aim properly and be safe. I saw a bass pro demonstrating something like this at an outdoors event several years ago, pulling the lure and bending the rod, firing into the air, and while in the air he'd remove his hat and catch the lure in it behind his back. Just like anything else, if you're stupid with it you can get hurt but if you do it correctly and safely it can work well.

What about pitching?? I can see flippin' wouldn't work but pitching should do some casts depending on how far away they are.......right??

What about spinning reels that have the trigger system that holds the line for you such as something like the older Quantum Hyper Cast where you hold onto the trigger until you are ready to release the line?? Might replace a spincast reel and still allow for doing that "slingshot cast" he described.

[Oldbritguy]

Thanks Rooster. I am aware of the potential problems you describe. I also saw a bass pro demonstrate this "catapult" cast at a fishing show some years ago. Wonder if it was the same guy? And he also used a spincast reel (Zebco I think).

Regarding your idea of the 'trigger-style' spinning reel; I have a couple of these and it does work O.K. with them, but the spincast does it smoother.

Maybe I'll try to learn to 'pitch' (Not sure exactly what that is; flip or pitch? whats the difference?).

Thanks for all suggestions and ideas. I guess it just confirms my suspicions that the spincast reel concept has its limitations as well as its advantages.

[Paul Roberts]

I guess I'm not picturing the problem. Is this pockets in submerged/emergent vegetation, or pockets in shoreline cover -in which you have to get under stuff?

I guess, regardless, there are two things required here -accurate casting, and winching fish from cover. The first can be done with all three: spincast, spinning, and casting. For the second, winching fish from cover, reverse the order in terms of effectiveness.

I'm not up on what's available in spincast nowadays, but have dabbled some in them over the years for various applications. They just do not have the winching power (nor speed) you need to get a fish's head up and keep it coming to drag it out of trouble. For this, casting gear is far superior. Large high quality spinning reels CAN do this, but are still much less efficient than casting reels for this. A couple years ago I sheered the handle off a Daiwa Black Gold (saltwater spinning reel) winching a 3lb bass out of slop. Rich Zaleski (of In-Fisherman fame) told me he once snapped the reel seat stem off a saltwater spinning reel doing the same -on a bass that hit 7lbs, after he hand-lined the last few feet LOL.

I can understand your issue, maybe, if you cannot stand up in your boat, which is required for both pitching and flipping. If you are sitting low in a tippy canoe, wading, or in a float tube (as I often am) then you are relegated to mostly casting. I can then see the bow-n-arrow casting you are describing (I use that a lot for fly-fishing brushy creeks). In my float tube I hit pockets well with both spinning and casting tackle, and penetrate cover with a heavy weight and a high "parachute" cast.

I guess, without fully understanding your casting needs there, I would suggest you get a casting rig and practice accurate and controlled casting (quiet entry and instant engagement). I would suggest not too long a rod (for accuracy), and one with both a flexible tip (for accuracy) and power in the butt for getting that head pointed at you, and keeping it coming.

Sorry for the long post, just trying to figure out why you feel casting tackle won't work for you. Just to re-iterate, casting tackle has the winching power spin-cast doesn't. Spinning is better, but not in the league with casting tackle for that use.

[Fishes in trees]

That "catapult" or "bow and arrow" cast is an accident waiting to happen.  Sooner or later you are going to space out and not hold the bait correctly and it will drive the hook into your finger past the barb.   That will hurt.

To reiterate what the other folks are saying, you need to get yourself a bait caster and learn how to pitch.  All you need is a lane to the target, and if you've got a lane, you can make that cast.

If you have to sit down in your boat, you can learn how to pitch sitting down.  Takes practice.  Or learn how to do that little underhanded Jimmy Houston type roll cast.  That is an accurate cast.  A case in point, Have you ever seen Jimmy Houston miss with that cast?  I didn't think so - neither has anyone else.  Jimmy Houston might have missed once - a couple of decades ago, but the camera man was changing tapes at that moment and missed it.

[Oldbritguy]

I really appreciate all the input and suggestions here. To answer a few questions: I am a well-practiced baitcaster for more than 35 years, and I love using the level wind reels. I can usually hit a soup-plate at 40 feet with the normal overhead cast.

However, that being said, I still have trouble getting accurate overhead or side casts into weed pockets only a foot wide - 30 - 40 feet away. Whereas, using the spincast/'bow and arrow' technique I can hit it just about every time. Only problem is when a fish takes I find it hard to drive the hook in solid, and then get the fish out of the weeds.

It seems I really need to learn how to pitch and flip using the baitcasting rig. Two techniques I have never tried and know little about. Are there any instructional videos in this forum (or elsewhere) that show pitching techniques in detail?

Thanks again for all help.

[The Rooster]

I know you can find some on youtube.com. Search pitcing and flipping on there to see what you can find. I went there to watch them do it to try to learn how myself. I have a DVD here at home that has Gary Klein explaining and doing some of both though and that helped me the most.

Also I disagree that the bow and arrow cast is an accident waiting to happen. That's like saying all people who shoot guns or bows will eventually shoot themselves in the foot. Guns are things that you cannot afford to become zoned out or get lazy while using or then and accident will happen for sure. You keep your head in the game and pay attention to NOTHING else except what you are doing at that moment while using it. Same with this technique, if you don't pay attention and make sure you do it right then an accident CAN happen, but doesn't have to. I mean sooner or later I might rare back for a big two handed cast using a 7' MH rod and a 3/4 oz. spinnerbait and hook my buddy in the ear as the lure sails by. Doesn't mean it's just waiting to happen.

[Paul Roberts]

I really appreciate all the input and suggestions here. To answer a few questions: I am a well-practiced baitcaster for more than 35 years, and I love using the level wind reels. I can usually hit a soup-plate at 40 feet with the normal overhead cast.

However, that being said, I still have trouble getting accurate overhead or side casts into weed pockets only a foot wide - 30 - 40 feet away. Whereas, using the spincast/'bow and arrow' technique I can hit it just about every time. Only problem is when a fish takes I find it hard to drive the hook in solid, and then get the fish out of the weeds.

It seems I really need to learn how to pitch and flip using the baitcasting rig. Two techniques I have never tried and know little about. Are there any instructional videos in this forum (or elsewhere) that show pitching techniques in detail?

Thanks again for all help.

Don't let us turn you entirely off of spin-cast. You may be able to make make it work for you. Maybe this is a reel size/lb test issue too? There are some saltwater models out there -I have one I've used with 200# dacron for archery-fishing. The biggest issue with spin-cast for me has been retrieve speed. You want >20ipt (inches per handle turn). ABU makes one that offers 25ipt -the 170i. It comes with 12lb line. I've been thinking about getting one for my young son as his 33 has only 8lb in it. And it also only offers about 17ipt -too slow for many retrieves and for keeping heads up. Look through the BPS catalog or site -BPS provides ipt for all reels. Every catalog and site should do the same. And look for saltwater models. I know there's at least one that's been designed for use with braid. But...definitely check the retrieve speed.

In the end though, my guess is you'll find spin-casts just won't hold up under the strain of winching bass from cover. Learn to flip and pitch too -it's very precise.