question about line visibility

[brushhoggin]

        With colder weather getting closer, Im getting ready to fish slower with plastics, jigs and such. And I'm sure this has been discussed here before but I'm relatively new and probably missed out. But can fish see and be spooked by braided line or any other line not suitable for a particular application? Is it just me or do i catch more using a line nearly invisible (to fish) like mono? Or is it completely disreguarded through the instinctive urge to react/bite? thats what i'd like to think.

[Grey Wolf]

This has been covered many times . If you do a search you'll find many differant opinions.

Some use braid.

Some use braid with floro leader.

Some just use floro.

Water clearness is the whole secret.

[brushhoggin]

i did search, reworded my question several times...each time no results. braided just behaves better than floro. floro stretches a little when it gets water logged and if my line stretches in the escape attempt, that tiny bit of slack will screw me sometimes.  

[J Francho]

If you are worried about braid spooking the fish, just use a fluorocarbon leader.  I have good success with P-Line CFX leader material.

[brushhoggin]

yeah that does make the most sense. how long should this leader be? does this also depend on water clarity? the deeper the longer the leader right?

[Glenn]

Click the "search" link on the tab above instead of using the search box.  You'll get better results when you select a time span longer than a week.

[J Francho]

yeah that does make the most sense. how long should this leader be? does this also depend on water clarity? the deeper the longer the leader right?

Not really, 18" is all you need, though I use one that is 6-12'.  This prevents the braid from wrapping at the tip, and lets you retie several times.  Alberto knot for the braid to leader connection.

[grimlin]

I find decreasing your line size can help as well.

[WRB]

To start with line is a complex topic and to date there isn't a panacea for all applications.

Today's braid or superbraid is about 1/3 smaller in diameter per lb test than mono or fluorocarbon (mono being a single nylon filament).

How bass see line and react to line differs with water clarity or depth of light, the type of lure and activity level of the bass. In clear water with bright light and inactive bass, the line needs to be close to invisible to get bass to react. In the same clear water at night the line diameter or type doesn't matter as long as it doesn't affect the lures action. Active bass in off color water in or around cover, the has little affect on the bass, like at night.

If you are fishing in lakes that have toothy fish or heavy cover, braid is an advantage. Under average conditions either mono or FC line works good. FC line sinks, both mono and braid float. FC line has lower knot strength than mono or braid.

It all comes down to how you fish and where you fish.

I fish deep clear highland reserviors and use mono for top water, spinnerbaits and crankbaits, FC for jigs, worms and spoons. Braid for heavy cover; jigs and frogs. Since FC line has lower knot strength, I rarely use it for leader, 1 knot is better than 2.

Using braid with FC leader is very popular today, it's just not my cup of tea. If a FC leader works, than I spool FC line.

WRB

[Paul Roberts]

There was some research in which LM were tested in a lab to see what they could discern (by either food reward and/or electric shock -don't remember the details) . Anyway, they found bass can detect mono lines as thin as 6lb test in clear water up close. Vision also varied with individual bass a fair amount.

But...the study MADE the lines relevant to those fish -by repeated reward and consequence. In our fishing it's a different story.

I've seen enough situations where people have been successful tying braid direct, even in fairly clear water, that it's probably more in our heads than something with the bass.

Not to say bass can't learn to associate lines, or be turned off by them. But I think most of the time bass can't make the relationship. Now, where it really comes into play is diameter affecting action. This is a biggie. Also, it's possible bass can hear or feel lines in the water -I am convinced carp can -although they are specialized in their hearing.

Bottom line, I use a leader with braid. But, I'm not too spooked by fore-going that at times.

[RoLo]

Goldenrod and ragweed are both in bloom during the hayfever season.

While goldenrod displays showy golden blooms, ragweed has inconspicuous flowers that are easily overlooked.

As a result, goldenrod is commonly blamed for hayfever, while ragweed, the true culprit is often unnoticed.

In my opinion highly visible line is like goldenrod, it causes no problem but is highly conspicuous and takes the blame.

A predator that wolfs down an 8 plug and 3 large trebles hooks is not likely to be spooked by the sight of a fine filament.

I believe that line diameter is the true culpritthe ragweed that causes line-drag. When finesse fishing,

as the line-diameter and line-drag are increased, the action of the lure becomes more impeded and more unnatural.

When I started fishing with polyethylene braid, I used a fluorocarbon leader.

I soon grew tired of dealing with fluoro, which was nearly as wiry as my titanium pike leaders.

I then switched to copolymer leader for a brief spell, but today I tie direct to everything without any leader.

There has been no measurable difference in our fishing action, in fact, this has been one of our best years in the recent past.

Roger

[Banor]

I think now this discussion is going in the right direction thanks to Paul and RoLo.  That direction being what affect different lines have on the presentation of the bait.

I posted my experience relating to this a while back in another thread but I'll recap it and try to keep it short.

During a tournament my co-angler and I were fishing a drop shotted fluke.  We were using the exact same bait presenting it in the exact same unique way, which was snapping the bait twice once it hit bottom to cause a reaction strike.  It was a very effective presentation for my co-angler who caught close to 40 fish and I caught exactly 3.

We narrowed it down to everything being identical except for the line.  I was using braid and he was using fluoro.  I of course immediately attributed it to line shy bass and concluded that the smallies were line shy so I should never use braid when targetting smallies in clear water.  The very next day I went out with newly spooled fluoro and caught several fish in the same area.

After comparing the two lines side by side over the next couple weeks with the same presentation I had an epipheny.  Braid tends to drag much more in the water and as a consequence same weighted baits will fall much slower with braid (or even larger diameter line for that matter) than 8 lb fluoro.  The net result was our presentation was targetting a reaction bite and the thinner fluoro was causing the bait to pop up and fall much faster.  The fish were getting a much longer look at the bait with braid than fluoro.  

Take that lesson for what it's worth.  It definately turned on the lightbulb for me.

B

[sodaksker]

Great info guys, I appreciate your posts. I wish I had a little more to offer on the subject but, all I have are theories. My theory is that the line diameter is the culprit as well. Not so much in limiting the action of the bait, although it could be a factor but, I agree with paul roberts about the sound or vibration that a bigger diameter line gives off. The bigger the line the more water displacement it gives off. Could this be spooking the fish? I don't know but, the water displacement and vibration of larger diameter lines have to make more "noise" in the water. It also seems to me that the "braid" lines even though they are smaller in diameter seem to make more noise or disruption in the water.

Next year I am going to start fishing with 4-6 lb yo zuri and see if I don't see an improvement.

[roadwarrior]

Well, I know we have some very successful smallmouth

fishermen that are going to pooh-pooh this comment, but

I live by it: The difference between Yo-Zuri Hybrid #6 v #8

is the difference between catching a lot of fish or none at all.

8-)

[.ghoti.]

Well, I know we have some very successful smallmouth

fishermen that are going to pooh-pooh this comment, but

I live by it: The difference between Yo-Zuri Hybrid #6 v #8

is the difference between catching a lot of fish or none at all.

8-)

I'm going to agree with that based on my experiences. In the two places I fish most, switching from #12 to #10 will very often result in more fish in the boat. Dropping to #8, on a spinning rig, will produce even more.

Doesn't happen all the time, but it happens often enough that I pay attention to it.

I had always assumed that it was a line visibility issue. RoLo may have made a very valid point. It's entirely possible that the effect of differing line diameters on the action of the bait is the reason for the change in productivity, on the days when this occurs.

Another variable to consider when trying to solve the daily puzzle.

[Lurking]

I used to spend a lot of time thinking about this question.

I have caught many fish on mono and many fish on braid w/fluro leaders, and many fish on straight braid. The best bass man I know fishes straight braid all the time no exceptions and this man always catches fish.

Honestly I don't think it's ever made much difference which line config I've used. I decided to go with braided line w/mono leaders (of similar diameter) a while back and I've stuck with that decision. One of the main reasons I wanted mono was in case I needed to break the line. Breaking 30# braid is no fun...I keep a breaker handy to wrap the line around in case I need to break off, even with that the process can be downright dangerous. I always look down and try to protect the main areas, but a 1/4 oz. spinnerbait sizzling past your head at high speed makes me think twice about straight braid. My buddy that uses braid only just cuts line out when he's hung up like that. That defeats one of the main reasons I like the braids so much, it lasts a long time.

So I use braid with clear mono leaders. Works for me...I don't worry about the line and focus on my techniques. I've seen the most improvements this way - from my improving my techniques, than from line.

[Paul Roberts]

I used to spend a lot of time thinking about this question.

I have caught many fish on mono and many fish on braid w/fluro leaders, and many fish on straight braid. The best bass man I know fishes straight braid all the time no exceptions and this man always catches fish.

Honestly I don't think it's ever made much difference which line config I've used. I decided to go with braided line w/mono leaders (of similar diameter) a while back and I've stuck with that decision. One of the main reasons I wanted mono was in case I needed to break the line. Breaking 30# braid is no fun...I keep a breaker handy to wrap the line around in case I need to break off, even with that the process can be downright dangerous. I always look down and try to protect the main areas, but a 1/4 oz. spinnerbait sizzling past your head at high speed makes me think twice about straight braid. My buddy that uses braid only just cuts line out when he's hung up like that. That defeats one of the main reasons I like the braids so much, it lasts a long time.

So I use braid with clear mono leaders. Works for me...I don't worry about the line and focus on my techniques. I've seen the most improvements this way - from my improving my techniques, than from line.

Good post.

I hadn't thought about having to break off (I use a mono leader too). But I'm in a float tube so this could possibly be a safety issue.

Here's an interesting observation on the subject of braid and catchability from a really good site:

http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/2008/09/interesting-but-relatively-meaningless-observations.html

[SWMIBASSER]

dropping line size and increasing catch rates is lMO attributed to better action/more natural action and not to reduced visibility.

I've made some conclusions pertaining to line size/visibility based on observing bass all summer long in a clear water creek that we have lived on since summer. It is loaded with largemouth cruising back and forth.....Has been really helpful IMO. Like having a natural aquarium in your backyard.