Top Heavy Rods Need Heavier Reel???

[ghost]

I've been pondering this about hearing a rod that's top heavy, rods especially baitcasters & using a reel say under 7.5-8 oz would still make a rod top heavy.  I am thinking rods that are 7' & over would be considered top heavy in some mfg/models?  

So a heavier baitcast reel like over 8 oz to 10 oz would balance out a top heavy rod, right?

I do have a St Croix LTB 7' MH Spinnerbait b/c rod & to me it does feel top heavy, even the 6'10" MH Cabelas XMLTi b/c rod I have feels top heavy.  I mount my Zillion reel that's 8.5 oz  or Shimano Chronarch 101B 9.0 oz or last years Quantum Energy at 9.5 oz on either of these rods & the heavier reel does feel more balanced on these rods.  I throw on a new 2009 Quantum Tour Edition 7.5 oz  or Shimano Chronarch MG51 b/c reels & the rods don't feel not balanced.

Is that the idea, a heavier reel for top heavy rods?  I don't really like adding weights to the end of rods to make them feel balanced, like rods that have built in weight systems.  It makes the rod feel heavier even after putting on a light reel.

[Dan:]

Balance points are in front of the foregrip. When you add a reel behind that balance point it will shift the balance point closer towards the reel. A heavier reel will shift the balance point closer to the foregrip than a light reel.

So yeah, if you have a top heavy rod, one way to help balance it out (if only marginally) is to put a heavier reel on it. It's not going to make a lot of difference but it will shift at least a little.

I don't mind a rod/reel combo being a little top heavy for tip down presentations. As long as it's not REALLY unbalanced than I don't mind that much but a balanced reel definitely feels more comfortable and fishes better.

As for weight systems, they do add weight but they can also help balance a rod. A well balanced rod can *feel* lighter than a rod that is actually lighter if it is unbalanced. The problem with weights is that the added dense material is just more to dampen vibration.

[The Rooster]

I have to agree about the weights in rods. I don't like the idea at all. Even though it seems like a good idea, just knowing I'm purposely adding weight to correct a problem that I probably could have eliminated out of the equasion by choosing a rod that was better balanced to start with........that just kills it for me. There are so many rods on the market, and reels too, that it's always possible to match up a combo that fits your needs and is balanced as well, in my opinion that is.

Plus I also tend to see it as something that would come unscrewed and fall in the lake and I'd be minus an essential part of my rod then.  

[dodgeguy]

(1)all rods are tip heavy.

(2)imho the correct balance point is the center of the reel seat.this makes the rod neutral when you hold it.

(3)this means any reel no matter what it weighs will work on a propely balanced rod and not change the balance.

(4)this can only be acheived with balance weights.

(5)when fishing a properly balanced rod feels weightless even though you have added weight to the butt end.this cause less fatigue and makes it easier to feel bites.

(6)http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_16515_100004002_100000000_100004000_100-4-2

[Wayne P.]

ghost, if you hold the rod at the foregrip during retrieve, then the reel weight will help with the balancing. Otherwise, the suggestions made by dodgeguy will be your solution.

Dan, adding weight to the rod butt will not dampen the vibrations from the reel seat to the rod tip since you are not adding density to that part of the rod. It may if you have a tip guide attached to the butt and use the rod backwards.

[flechero]

Why would anyone be ok with adding 2+ oz of reel to balance out a combo but not like the idea of adding  weight (when less is required in the rod since it's further back) to the butt of the rod, when less weight (added to the rod) will give you a more balanced feel?  

Makes no sense to me.  

[Dan:]

(1)all rods are tip heavy.

(2)imho the correct balance point is the center of the reel seat.this makes the rod neutral when you hold it.

So you are adding balance weights to all of your rods?

I prefer my balance points to be an inch or two in front of the reel seat. I can usually achieve that without weights.

Wayne, I understand that fingers should feel the vibration before the waves travel to the back of the rod tip but I think the waves travel back and forth through the rod too fast for our fingers to tell the difference between the vibrations on the way from the front to the back or the back to the front. On a hollow piece of graphite like a fishing rod I don't see how it's possible to add anything to any place on the rod without dampening the sensitivity somehow. At least that's how I think of it, like a high speed echo that goes back and forth throughout the rod. Does that even make sense?

[Wayne P.]

Dan, no it doesn't make any sense if a reel is installed on the rod. The 8-14 oz. of reel on the reel seat will do most of the vibration dampening so any vibrations that reach the butt for a return trip will be minimal. An additional 1/2-2 ounces at the butt won't make any more difference than using different weight reels.

[Dan:]

Dan, no it doesn't make any sense if a reel is installed on the rod. The 8-14 oz. of reel on the reel seat will do most of the vibration dampening so any vibrations that reach the butt for a return trip will be minimal. An additional 1/2-2 ounces at the butt won't make any more difference than using different weight reels.

a valid point which I had not considered. lol

[dodgeguy]

(1)all rods are tip heavy.

(2)imho the correct balance point is the center of the reel seat.this makes the rod neutral when you hold it.

So you are adding balance weights to all of your rods?

I prefer my balance points to be an inch or two in front of the reel seat. I can usually achieve that without weights. .

Wayne, I understand that fingers should feel the vibration before the waves travel to the back of the rod tip but I think the waves travel back and forth through the rod too fast for our fingers to tell the difference between the vibrations on the way from the front to the back or the back to the front. On a hollow piece of graphite like a fishing rod I don't see how it's possible to add anything to any place on the rod without dampening the sensitivity somehow. At least that's how I think of it, like a high speed echo that goes back and forth throughout the rod. Does that even make sense?

yes i balance all my rods.the weightless tip makes it easier to feel things because you are not fighting the rod weight.

[dave]

I have a 7'6" MH Gator rod. I have a Shimano Castaic on it. I have 2 oz in the butt. When you pick it straight up, feels heavy. When you have it in fishing position, magically light.

[dodgeguy]

I have a 7'6" MH Gator rod. I have a Shimano Castaic on it. I have 2 oz in the butt. When you pick it straight up, feels heavy. When you have it in fishing position, magically light.

exactly!!!

[Dan:]

(1)all rods are tip heavy.

(2)imho the correct balance point is the center of the reel seat.this makes the rod neutral when you hold it.

So you are adding balance weights to all of your rods?

I prefer my balance points to be an inch or two in front of the reel seat. I can usually achieve that without weights. .

Wayne, I understand that fingers should feel the vibration before the waves travel to the back of the rod tip but I think the waves travel back and forth through the rod too fast for our fingers to tell the difference between the vibrations on the way from the front to the back or the back to the front. On a hollow piece of graphite like a fishing rod I don't see how it's possible to add anything to any place on the rod without dampening the sensitivity somehow. At least that's how I think of it, like a high speed echo that goes back and forth throughout the rod. Does that even make sense?

yes i balance all my rods.the weightless tip makes it easier to feel things because you are not fighting the rod weight.

what do you use for balancing them?

[yamisoez]

I totally agree with Dodgeguy. Been using those balance weights for ages.

[Wayne P.]

Dan, I use some BPS rods that have the accessory balancers, I have the BPS balancers that slip on rod butts, and I make some using plastic tips for chairs with weights formed from lead egg sinkers.

The lead takes up less space in the balancers than the brass ones.

I have a couple rods that are balanced by inserting and epoxing a tungsten Carolina Rig weight in the blank by drilling thru the butt.

I have a custom baitcaster that had the balancing weight added to the blank butt before the handle was finished. I ordered it to have a 45 degree tip rise from horizonal with an Ambassadeur 4600C3 while palming it. I also have some rods that are not balanced as the components are light enough to give just little tip weight which I prefer for casting and retrieving horizonal baits (spinnerbaits, crankbaits, etc)

[Dan:]

Dan, I use some BPS rods that have the accessory balancers, I have the BPS balancers that slip on rod butts, and I make some using plastic tips for chairs with weights formed from lead egg sinkers.

The lead takes up less space in the balancers than the brass ones.

I have a couple rods that are balanced by inserting and epoxing a tungsten Carolina Rig weight in the blank by drilling thru the butt.

I have a custom baitcaster that had the balancing weight added to the blank butt before the handle was finished. I ordered it to have a 45 degree tip rise from horizonal with an Ambassadeur 4600C3 while palming it. I also have some rods that are not balanced as the components are light enough to give just little tip weight which I prefer for casting and retrieving horizonal baits (spinnerbaits, crankbaits, etc)

Wayne, you are the master of modifications. I have a weight balancing set for my BPS Extreme rod but I didn't know if anyone made any aftermarket products for anything other than the BPS brands.

[Bankbeater]

How much off balance are we talking here? Is it something you notice as soon as you pick up the rig, or is it something you notice after say an hour's worth of casting.

[dodgeguy]

the differnce is immediately felt.you can feel everything much easier and it's more amplified.you are not fighting the rod weight.the rod sits completely balanced in your hand.

[dodgeguy]

what do you use for balancing them?

[Bantam1]

Personally I leave some rods tip heavy for applications where I fish with the rod tip down. I may balance a rod a little different when I am fishing applications that require it to be tip up. Thats just me...