Super User flechero Posted July 23, 2009 Super User Posted July 23, 2009 I see this quote all the time and it's just not usually true. By the way I mean no disrespect to those who have said it, I just think it's misunderstood. shorter rods= better accuracy Those who claim this usually use shorter rods... but the claimed improvement in accuracy is a result of having used them more, not an actual by product of the tool. I used to use almost all 6'6" rods and was very accurate with them. I now predominantly use 6'10" and 7' rods and am just as accurate as I was with the shorter rods. It's what you are used to and use most often that gives the greatest accuracy. I suspect that holds true for *most of you, in *most situations. Quote
Lucky Craft Man Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I think what also helps is how well suited the rod is for the lure you are casting. I feel I am most accurate with my 7'5" rod when I am casting weightless Senkos (it seems to load up perfectly). Though, if I add a slip weight to the Senko, I feel my accuracy suffers a little (the rod almost loads up too much). Quote
Super User islandbass Posted July 23, 2009 Super User Posted July 23, 2009 Well said. I couldn't agree more. The frequency of using said rod determines accuracy. Rod length can make certain targets easier to hit which does play a minor role in accuracy, but it still remains in the angler's abilities moreso than the length of the rod. Quote
lightsout Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 agreed. I seem to release a lure just a little later when casting a shorter rod. Quote
Koop Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I agree for the most part, though I have a reservation that is most likely just a fault of my own. I use 6'10-7'6 rods predominantly and always have. Though when skipping lures I find it MUCH easier to do on a 6' rod (that I normally do not use) than any of the 7'ish rods that I am more experienced using. Not sure why just seems to have more control. Though that is the only instance I can think of. Quote
Super User flechero Posted July 23, 2009 Author Super User Posted July 23, 2009 control and skipping are different than accuracy. You probably skip in close quarters, which would lend itself to a shorter rod... Quote
Koop Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Yes to skipping in close quarters. I assumed they were one in the same, accuracy in placing where your skip is to end up. I suppose that also has to do with the control as well. Quote
Super User Muddy Posted July 23, 2009 Super User Posted July 23, 2009 With ya all the way Keith; I tried up to the &'s ( preferance for salt water) Being as I do not like to sit high in a boat I use 6'6", and they suit me fine Quote
vatech Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I see the point here, but based on pure physics alone the argument fails. Can a person be extremely "accurate" with a shotgun? Yes. Can a person be extremely "inaccurate" with a rifle? Yes. Is a shotgun more accurate than a rifle? No. I put the word "accurate" in parenthesis because it's an improper use of the word, the correct word would be proficient. Good topic Quote
Super User Muddy Posted July 24, 2009 Super User Posted July 24, 2009 No the word is accurate. I have practiced a lot of hours and can throw a bait, with any of my four rods, into dead center of a small dounut tire at 30 yards. This has been accomplished by a lot of practice and only 2 years at full time bait casting. This is accuracy, not proficiency and with time I am sure I can get better. This is not great feat compared to some of my regular fishing partners. I have fished with a few great casters, and have heard them call the spot and put the bait right on it,that is what I call consistent accuracy Comparing a shotgun to a rifle here is very irrelevant since throwing a bait , one time to a small target does not represent a fire pattern of a shotgun :-? Quote
vatech Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 All my point is, it's the nature of the instrument to be that way (in the rod's case due to physics and in the gun's case it's obviously due to design) and I was trying to demonstrate that with an analogy. And it sounds to me like you're very proficient at being accurate with all of your rod lengths! ;D Quote
Super User Maxximus Redneckus Posted July 24, 2009 Super User Posted July 24, 2009 Close range yup better accuracy... but flippin or pitching does the same thing still hard to flip or pitch DEEP up under a pier or trees though thats where a 5-6 pistol grip rod excels roll casting Quote
Lucky Craft Man Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I see the point here, but based on pure physics alone the argument fails. Can a person be extremely "accurate" with a shotgun? Yes. Can a person be extremely "inaccurate" with a rifle? Yes. Is a shotgun more accurate than a rifle? No.I put the word "accurate" in parenthesis because it's an improper use of the word, the correct word would be proficient. Good topic I'll give you a short 5' saltwater trolling rod and I'll take my 7'5" Senko rod and I will predict I will be able to cast more accurately than you would be able to . I am by no means a great caster, but length alone is not the only variable in casting accuracy. Quote
Koop Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Comparing a shotgun to a rifle here is very irrelevant since throwing a bait , one time to a small target does not represent a fire pattern of a shotgun :-? It's called chumming! ;D ;D ;D Quote
Super User RoLo Posted July 24, 2009 Super User Posted July 24, 2009 I'm not sure that the statement: "shorter rod = better accuracy" is left to opinion, I believe it's mechanics. The fulcrum of every cast is the tiptop guide. The greater the distance between the tiptop guide and the angler's hand the more magnified his casting error. For instance, a 4-ft rod that's held 1/4" offline, will be 3/4" offline with a 12-ft rod. Quite naturally, we all become proficient with the rods we use day-in and day-out. But all things being equal, and based on physics, the shorter rod is inherently more accurate. Roger Quote
vatech Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Bingo! Roger hit the nail on the head. LuckyCraftMan, I accept your challenge!!!! Bringggg ittttt. Quote
Lucky Craft Man Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Bingo! Roger hit the nail on the head.LuckyCraftMan, I accept your challenge!!!! Bringggg ittttt. LOL...ok, here are the rules: You get a Shimano Talavera Trolling Rod (5'9" X-Heavy) and a Penn Saltwater Reel. I get a G Loomis GLX BCR893 and a Daiwa Zillion. We will have to cast a weightless senko 80 feet into the center of a tire. Again, I am not the best caster, but I like my chances with a "longer" rod. Quote
cidgrad96 Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Bingo! Roger hit the nail on the head.LuckyCraftMan, I accept your challenge!!!! Bringggg ittttt. LOL...ok, here are the rules: You get a Shimano Talavera Trooling Rod (5'9" X-Heavy) and a Penn Saltwater Reel. I get a G Loomis GLX BCR893 and a Daiwa Zillion. We will have to cast a weightless senko 80 feet into the center of a tire. Again, I am not the best caster, but I like my chances with a "longer" rod. There's a couple other things at play on that one. If the rod doesn't load - you aren't going to get it where you want it. You might can, but it's gonna be a whole lot harder. That salt rod isn't going to load. Unfair advantage. I'm with vatech - you can develop the proficiency to be accurate - with any length rod. I can hand someone a 6' rod or a 7'9" - if they aren't proficient at accuracy, they won't do it with either one. RoLo is right too. Basic physics regarding levers comes into play. When you merge RoLo and vatech's comments you get a good picture of what is happening. The average angler is more proficient at keeping the correct angles on a shorter lever - it's easier. Those who practice or are naturally talented can develop a greater proficiency for accuracy with a longer lever/rod. Compare this to a hammer. Use one with a standard length, say 12". Whack away. Now, go make a hammer with a 2 yard handle and try it... which is easier to be more accurate with until you develop your proficiency? **No facts to support - just my conclusions and opinions** Quote
Lucky Craft Man Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Bingo! Roger hit the nail on the head.LuckyCraftMan, I accept your challenge!!!! Bringggg ittttt. LOL...ok, here are the rules: You get a Shimano Talavera Trooling Rod (5'9" X-Heavy) and a Penn Saltwater Reel. I get a G Loomis GLX BCR893 and a Daiwa Zillion. We will have to cast a weightless senko 80 feet into the center of a tire. Again, I am not the best caster, but I like my chances with a "longer" rod. There's a couple other things at play on that one. If the rod doesn't load - you aren't going to get it where you want it. You might can, but it's gonna be a whole lot harder. That salt rod isn't going to load. Unfair advantage. I'm with vatech - you can develop the proficiency to be accurate - with any length rod. I can hand someone a 6' rod or a 7'9" - if they aren't proficient at accuracy, they won't do it with either one. RoLo is right too. Basic physics regarding levers comes into play. When you merge RoLo and vatech's comments you get a good picture of what is happening. The average angler is more proficient at keeping the correct angles on a shorter lever - it's easier. Those who practice or are naturally talented can develop a greater proficiency for accuracy with a longer lever/rod. Compare this to a hammer. Use one with a standard length, say 12". Whack away. Now, go make a hammer with a 2 yard handle and try it... which is easier to be more accurate with until you develop your proficiency? **No facts to support - just my conclusions and opinions** The point to my challenge is to show that there is a lot more at play then just rod length when dealing with casting accuracy. Like you said, the rod has to be matched with the lure you are trying to cast and the weight of the rod I'm sure has a little to do with it. I do understand Rolo and vatech's point, but that is only a valid argument if you have two rods that are the same weight, same loading characteristics and the skill set is constant. Therefore, if all those are the same, then I agree, a shorter rod could lead to greater casting accuracy. Quote
cidgrad96 Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 LCM - sorry I didn't pick up on that being your point (I use the i was getting tired excuse on this one)! Quote
Super User SirSnookalot Posted July 24, 2009 Super User Posted July 24, 2009 Unreasonable to use a trolling rod as a comparison, it is not intended to be cast. Only true test is casting the same rod in various lengths. Quote
Lucky Craft Man Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 The point to my challenge is to show that there is a lot more at play then just rod length when dealing with casting accuracy. Like you said, the rod has to be matched with the lure you are trying to cast and the weight of the rod I'm sure has a little to do with it. I do understand Rolo and vatech's point, but that is only a valid argument if you have two rods that are the same weight, same loading characteristics and the skill set is constant. Therefore, if all those are the same, then I agree, a shorter rod could lead to greater casting accuracy. I agree with you SirSnookalot. Quote
fathom Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 all in all, i think this is one of those "indian/arrow" deals. am just as accurate with an mbr843 (mh/f) as i am with an mbr783 (mh/f), using the same bait. that said...have used the cbr845 (mh/m) for years...as much as i like it for overhead, open water casting, i was never as consistent when targeting shoreline targets as i am with a cbr785 (mh/m). with a cbr785, i can pop a gnat's *** at 40 paces. am just saying. Quote
Super User Maxximus Redneckus Posted July 24, 2009 Super User Posted July 24, 2009 to me accuracy means a few diff things i can roll cast left or right sideways, backwards,sitting,standing with a 5 -6 pistol grip and HIT my TARGET better and more effiecently then with a 6-6 rod and trigger grip.i Challenge anyone here to a target match within 20 foot no flippin or pitchin and u gotta use a 6-6 or longer rod with a trigger grip and we use a 3/8 jig Quote
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