cidgrad96 Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 9 or 10... which is the right number? There's your first difference. 10 is probably too many to start with. 9 with micros, 8 with standard guides. - it is either more or less weight added to the blank. More weight added = less sensitive rod - more guides impact the natural flex of the rod blank - impact on casting distance through proper line control on the cast - impact on line control when fighting a fish - spinning rods are set up generically because they don't know what size reel you are using. When I know the reel size, I can use guides half the size, placed correctly, which results in a more sensitive rod (see 1st bullet) and typically a longer casting rod. A rod for a 4000 series reel won't be spaced the same as a 2500 I've never used a spacing template that was absolutely correct for a each individual blank of a certain make/model. Factories don't space individual blanks. Too expensive because of time.
Super User Dan: Posted July 1, 2009 Super User Posted July 1, 2009 how much can spacing the guides differently really affect casting distance, or "line control" when fighting fish? I don't really even understand what "line control" when fighting fish means...
cidgrad96 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 It's about line control in both cases. Keep the line on a straight path to achieve maximum distance for casting. Example - guides spaced too far can create slap - takes the line off the straightest path and robbs you of distance. For fighting a fish, it's keeping the line in the same curve of the blank so as to maximize the power in that blank and letting the blank work how it's supposed to... a better tool. Example - improperly spaced guides can cause the blank to flatten incorrectly, reduce the rod's ability to fight fish, or incorrectly distribute the weight on the blank under load. Also, higher framed guides on top produce more torque (line is trying to push down and under the blank - resulting in twist) which really adds wear and tear over the lifetime of the rod. This is why spinning rods fight fish better - no torque - guides are under the rod. Blank itself has an impact huge impact on casting and fighting - but it's a total package and guides are what keep the line on the blank. I've picked up plenty of factory rods (not a steez I concede) where the line drops below the blank on a casting rod - that's not good. I've also picked up GLXs where the craftsmanship was terrible. Guides not properly aligned, gooped up epoxy, football finish on guides, etc. I haven't seen enough Steezs to judge that.
steezy Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I can tell you from experience, I've caught a 2 - 4 lb'ders on my little 6' steez in the past 2 days and it was plenty bent when I was crankin them in and thanks to the generous number of guides (and quality) the line stayed right on top of the center of the rod. My previous BPS signature series rods were also a great performers but the steez are flawless.
bass wrangler569 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I don't know anyone that gives a dump about guide spacing At least not anyone that knows squat about rods. ;D Really? How different can 9 or 10 guides be spaced on a 6'9'' rod with different effect? I don't get this either. Granted, I only have half a dozen rods under my belt but I have never heard of much discrepancy in rod spacing. Guide choice, single or double foot, even guide number sure but like you said, I don't know how many different ways you can put 9 guides on a 6'9" rod. As far as rods, as far as sensitivity goes, GLX, but steez rods do look sick.
Super User Dan: Posted July 1, 2009 Super User Posted July 1, 2009 I don't know anyone that gives a dump about guide spacing At least not anyone that knows squat about rods. ;D Really? How different can 9 or 10 guides be spaced on a 6'9'' rod with different effect? I don't get this either. Granted, I only have half a dozen rods under my belt but I have never heard of much discrepancy in rod spacing. Guide choice, single or double foot, even guide number sure but like you said, I don't know how many different ways you can put 9 guides on a 6'9" rod. As far as rods, as far as sensitivity goes, GLX, but steez rods do look sick. yeah, there is only so much room for variation. You would really only be able to move the guides so much and I really don't see that making a noticeable difference.
christopherjake Posted July 1, 2009 Author Posted July 1, 2009 I wish G-Loomis would use other materials for the handle than cork, but there is no way in heck Daiwa can beat Loomis' warranty. I just purchased a Steez but after reading their warranty, I wish I hadn't. For such an expensive product, Daiwa's warranty is crap.
sweet daddy Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 The only reason I have a steez rod is thanks to a gift card. I would never pay more than a hundred bucks for a rod. If paying for a high dollar pole floats your boat, don't be a crybaby when others laugh at your three hundred dollar status symbol. I have a G loomis hat that I payed way to much for, and I get the tool treatment every time I wear it.
Super User Gone_Phishin Posted July 1, 2009 Super User Posted July 1, 2009 The only reason I have a steez rod is thanks to a gift card. I would never pay more than a hundred bucks for a rod. If paying for a high dollar pole floats your boat, don't be a crybaby when others laugh at your three hundred dollar status symbol. I have a G loomis hat that I payed way to much for, and I get the tool treatment every time I wear it. People can laugh all they want. Whenever I am fishing my BCR GLX I know I have the most sensitive rod I have ever handled. If feeling more bites and catching more fish is something to poke fun of, well, then laugh away...I know I'll be smiling too.
The_Natural Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 It's splitting hairs; they are both light, sensitive rods. If you value extreme light weight and cutting edge looks...go Steez. If you like a more traditional looking rod with pure, raw sensitivity...go GLX. GLX Steez Sensitivity 10+ 9 Weight 9 10+ Balance 9 9 Build Quality 9 9 On a side not, the Zillion rods are right there with the Steez rods in the sensitivity department, but the Steez rods are noticeably lighter in weight. The Zillion and IMX would represent another tough decision, and you would have to answer the same question of what you value most.
steezy Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Hey Christopherjake, Whats the issue with the Daiwa Steez warranty? Its a lifetime warranty on the Steez so Im really interested in why you think the loomis warranty is better.
cidgrad96 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I don't know anyone that gives a dump about guide spacing At least not anyone that knows squat about rods. ;D Really? How different can 9 or 10 guides be spaced on a 6'9'' rod with different effect? I don't get this either. Granted, I only have half a dozen rods under my belt but I have never heard of much discrepancy in rod spacing. Guide choice, single or double foot, even guide number sure but like you said, I don't know how many different ways you can put 9 guides on a 6'9" rod. As far as rods, as far as sensitivity goes, GLX, but steez rods do look sick. yeah, there is only so much room for variation. You would really only be able to move the guides so much and I really don't see that making a noticeable difference. I don't think it's been disputed they are not good rods - I see more of a philosophy discussion here... there's a difference in a factory rod and a custom rod. No doubt. Dan felt the weights can't be beat - that's bunk. They can be matched at the least. So we're down to splitting hairs. Is the guide spacing bad on a Steez? No. Never said that. But the same rod would perform even better with individual static testing and different guides - something that's going to come from a custom builder. Unfortunately the blanks aren't available, but there is comparable stuff out there. Hey... your money - your choice. Just trying to understand the logic and bias toward the high end rods.
christopherjake Posted July 1, 2009 Author Posted July 1, 2009 Hey Christopherjake, Whats the issue with the Daiwa Steez warranty? Its a lifetime warranty on the Steez so Im really interested in why you think the loomis warranty is better. Daiwa would only warranty the rod if you had the original or copied receipt. You have to send $30 to them and they would either repair or replace it ONLY if the rod was defective. Loomis also has this limited lifetime warranty but they have another warranty they call the Xpeditor warranty where you send them $50 and you get a brand new rod shipped both ways no questions asked.
Super User .RM. Posted July 1, 2009 Super User Posted July 1, 2009 OK here's what I don't get... not trying to thread rob and feel free to blast me..But why would anyone drop $300+ on a rod that is built in a factory? A competent custom rod builder can get more out of blank, offer things not available on factory rods, and make the rod specifically for you and how you fish - including grip size, grip material, guide options, and the list goes on. Just trying to understand why people are willing to drop serious coin on something mass produced when they can get a better tool for less money. :-/ Because you (as a builder) no matter how much you try, cannot compete with the Expeditor Service or the Limited Lifetime Warranties... Tight Lines All!!!!
Pantera61 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Hey Christopherjake, Whats the issue with the Daiwa Steez warranty? Its a lifetime warranty on the Steez so Im really interested in why you think the loomis warranty is better. Daiwa would only warranty the rod if you had the original or copied receipt. You have to send $30 to them and they would either repair or replace it ONLY if the rod was defective. Loomis also has this limited lifetime warranty but they have another warranty they call the Xpeditor warranty where you send them $50 and you get a brand new rod shipped both ways no questions asked. Warranties are a red herring. No one ever put a fish in the boat using a warranty. Warranties are an excellent guarantee people won't take care of their tackle. If a rod breaks and you send it back to the manufacturer they will know whether or not it's workmanship or materials. I had a Megabass rod, basically no warranty. I noticed a problem within the first week, contacted them, sent the rod back and had a refund in 3 days. They didn't have the specific rod in stock. On the other hand, had a good friend who had issues with a rod after the first year and it was manufacturer's problem he got squat. He won't be a customer again.
NOVA Angler Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 The warranty far outweighs the added benefits of a custom rod IMO. I can cast as far as I need to and I wouldn't know how to determine if I've lost fish due to improper guide spacing. Too many variables. Every hobby has it's "philes" (like audiophiles) who strive for perfection in their equipment. That's cool, but just not me.
Super User roadwarrior Posted July 1, 2009 Super User Posted July 1, 2009 Warranties are an excellent guarantee people won't take care of their tackle. I take extremely good care of my equipment, but accidents happen. The G. Loomis warranty eliminates any worries about actually "using" their equipment. Regarding the quality of high-end rods vs. custom made, that probably depends on the builder! Custom may be better, but "production rods" are consistent. I have a few GLX, all of which provide 100% satisfaction. I can't comment on Steez vs. G. Loomis GLX except to say, it just doesn't seem right to saddle a Steez up with a Shimano reel. That's a non-starter for me! :
Pantera61 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Warranties are an excellent guarantee people won't take care of their tackle. I take extremely good care of my equipment, but accidents happen. The G. Loomis warranty eliminates any worries about actually "using" their equipment. Regarding the quality of high-end rods vs. custom made, that probably depends on the builder! Custom may be better, but "production rods" are consistent. I have a few GLX, all of which provide 100% satisfaction. I can't comment on Steez vs. G. Loomis GLX except to say, it just doesn't seem right to saddle a Steez up with a Shimano reel. That's a non-starter for me! : I'm sure you use your tackle. I get the impression you don't abuse your tackle, though. That is the difference. I'm sure you've read the posts of those who send broken tackle back to vendors that had nothing to do with the original sale.
Super User flechero Posted July 1, 2009 Super User Posted July 1, 2009 The warranty far outweighs the added benefits of a custom rod IMO. I can cast as far as I need to and I wouldn't know how to determine if I've lost fish due to improper guide spacing. Too many variables. Every hobby has it's "philes" (like audiophiles) who strive for perfection in their equipment. That's cool, but just not me. We are way off topic here and should have started another thread about a page ago but... It doesn't sound like I will sway your opinion on the merits of a true custom rod, and that's cool... I think you are probably a perfect candidate for the lifetime no-fault warranty. Factory rods aren't bad at all, but they are not the same. I do however, take exception to the term "phile." As for being a perfectionist at times, I'll accept that. If i was "normal" I guess I'd just wrap prefabbed and prefitted components on a blank with spacing charts for Daiwa or Loomis.
Super User roadwarrior Posted July 1, 2009 Super User Posted July 1, 2009 BACK ON TOPIC: It's splitting hairs; they are both light, sensitive rods. If you value extreme light weight and cutting edge looks...go Steez. If you like a more traditional looking rod with pure, raw sensitivity...go GLX. GLX Steez Sensitivity 10+ 9 Weight 9 10+ Balance 9 9 Build Quality 9 9 On a side not, the Zillion rods are right there with the Steez rods in the sensitivity department, but the Steez rods are noticeably lighter in weight. The Zillion and IMX would represent another tough decision, and you would have to answer the same question of what you value most. Good night Irene -Kent a.k.a. roadwarrior Global Moderator
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