Theories on Line and crankbaits

[retiredbosn]

It is 7 degrees here in the mountains of WV, wintertime and my arthritis doesn't allow me to be very mobile. As a result I have had a lot of time on my hands and have been filling the time with researching lines and their effects on crankbaits. What follows is some of my thoughts that I would like to have validated or refuted.

First is the false advertising on most crankbait packaging. The diving rates given on the packaging of the crankbaits are either formulated by actually casting the crank or trolling. If trolling you will have a hard time getting the crank to the stated depth. When I have contacted various manufacturers they have responded with the same answer, that the depth ratings are calculated assuming .012 diameter line, trolled. None however bothered to state how much line they had out to get to the depth on the packaging. Anyway on to the line.

Mono the oldest and most popular type of line, from what I have gleaned still the standard that all cranks are rated from. The good news is that the 10lb test line that the manufacturers use to calculate the depth is .012, which means that using a quality mono you can actually use 12 or sometimes 14 lb test line and still be in the ball park of the depth rating. However mono has an open cell construction which means that the line actually absorbs water, which reduces strength and causes more water resisitance on the line when being retrieved. So I have pretty much concluded that using regular mono I will never actually get the advertised depth on the crankbait.

Fluro, the new darling of the industry and pros. As a disabled vet living on a fixed income, I have difficulty spending the money on this line. I have read that some test show that the flouro will stretch around 15%, mono stretches 25. Now before anyone has a knee jerk reaction the zero stretch claims made by manufacturers is a myth. Everything will stretch when there is enough pressure applied. I don't care if it is wire rope, braided line, flouro, mono, dental floss, a steel girder. Actually the faster the pressure is applied the less stretch any material will stretch before breaking. The slower and steadier the pressure is applied the farther the material will stretch. Anyway fluoro has approximately the same diameter as mono, but the reviews I've read all agree that the crankbait will dive a little deeper on flouro when compared to mono of the same diameter. This lead me to conclude that the closed cell construction of the fluoro results in less resistance on the line as it is retrieved. Therefore the diving aspect of the crankbait is not only a matter of line diameter but water resistance against the line. The reviews all agreed that flouro is slick, knots are little harder to tie and to get to hold than on mono, i.e. a regular cinch pulls through on flouro, so the reccommended knots are the palomer and improved cinch. So to recap the flouro gets the crankbait deeper because of the closed cell construction and its ability to repel water resulting in less resistance against the line, the fact it sinks is illustrative of these properties.

Braid the darling of the media turned into a sow's ear. The reviews on this product and crankbaiting are all over the place. Some people sing it's praises others declare that the braid destroys the action of the bait, pulls the hooks out, etc. However most agreed that 10lb braid will allow the crankbait to dive deeper than any other line, this of course is due to the diameter of the line. I have not found any site or information to confirm what I'm getting ready to type, and hope that someone here can validate. I'm betting that cranking with braid that has the diameter of .012 will result in the bait being more shallow than either the mono or flouro. The reason is again that the water resistance against the line will be more than either of the other two. Most braided line floats, and has an open cell construction which would result in a lot more resistance on the line when being retrieved.

This brings me to the last consideration, copoly line. The line supposedly shares the properties of flouro and mono. I'm hoping that the line having a closed cell construction has better crankbait potential than mono, not as slick as fluoro as therefore better knot strength, with better abraision than mono. What has been your experience with this type of line? Also do my opinions mirror what you have experienced on the water with these lines? Any comments will be appreciated. thanks

[warmer]

great research.  are you taking requests on research projects?

i like co-poly and or flouro on my cb's.  the line sinks, which also helps me achieve greater depths esp w/ sinking cranks.

my main concern w/ braid is that braid smaller than 30lb will end up flying off my real on a long cast if there is any overlap or digging in on the reel.  i watched to many rattle traps fly off into the distance when the line snapped in the reel.

mono is fine, i find i have to change it out more regularly than i do flouro, and i guess i know why now.  if it is absorbing water and weakening that would explain it.

thanks!

[Bassn Blvd]

Wow,  that's a lot of thought you put into this.  Let me ask you this though.  I have a crankbait that supposedly runs 4-6'.  If I'm fishing in 10' feet of water with a 2' visibility, how do I know if my crank is going to the 4-6' range or not?

[retiredbosn]

In the absence of any thing that you can judge from, ie grass line at 5 feet, fish suspended at that range or a graph, you don't know for sure.  Rapala publishes a book that you can buy that shows how deep their baits run on different lenghts of line at different speeds and different diameters of line, there is also precisionangling.com that sells a book that does the same thing with a variety of bait companies.  All I am saying is that there is a lot more to what causes a crankbait to dive to a certain depth than just line diameter, there is line construction, length of cast, speed of retrieve, etc.  What I found annoying is that the depth ratings are typically calculated from trolling a bait on 150 feet of line at 5-7 knots.  Also the baits didn't varying more than a foot or so with a change in line size from .012 to .014.  

[Big Tom]

What I take from all of this is that you should crank with what makes you the most comfortable and confident, be it 10 pound mono or 30 pound braid. I personally use 15# P-Line Cx Premium and catch my share of crankbait fish.

[roadwarrior]

Well, for $4.88 you can try Yo-Zuri Hybrid and see if you like it.

Although I use #12 on my cranking rods, you should try the #10

to get your desired line diameter (.012" diameter, 16.5 lb test):

http://www.yo-zuri.com/Products/Prodline/HybridLineChart.htm

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_10201217____SearchResults?ordProd=Y&CMID=TOP_selectitems#itemDetail

8-)

[retiredbosn]

Roadwarrior,

to your knowledge does anyother manufacturer do a true copolymer like Yozuri?  I really like buying from my local tackle store, nothing like supporting your local "hookers", and do not know if they carry YoZuri.  I noticed on their website they claim that other manufacturers just coat the nylon with floro, which results in a "ladder-type" of bonding instead of molecularly bonding on all sides of the polymers.  

BTW for those who are wondering why I'm researching this so much, I guess it goes back to my bird hunting days.  I can talk about choke sizes, shot size, dram equivilent of powders, the affects of backboring, felt recoil, and don't even get me started on dogs!  I guess I'm just really curious and like to know as much as possible about the tools I use to enjoy my hobby.  

[Raul]

how do I know if my crank is going to the 4-6' range or not?

Use the force Luke !  

[vicdotcom]

Wow, that's a lot of thought you put into this. Let me ask you this though. I have a crankbait that supposedly runs 4-6'. If I'm fishing in 10' feet of water with a 2' visibility, how do I know if my crank is going to the 4-6' range or not?

If you just want to test, color your line with something bright for the first 5 feet.  Lets say a pink or neon sharpie.  then tie the lure on and toss it out.  Start retrieving.  If your crank is diving about 5-6 feet, then your colored line should not be visible.  If you are retrieving and you see pink line, then you are under 5 feet.

But remember, take your measurement when the lure is about 5 feet away from you.  Because if you look at the line on a 40 yard cast, the angle will give you an innacurate reading point.

[roadwarrior]

The term "copolymer" covers a lot of ground. Both Gamma

and P-Line CXX are copolymers. Each have unique characteristics

or something making them quite different.

Yo-Zuri Hybrid Ultra Soft is nearly as limp as braid. In the smaller

diameters and with an application of KVD Line & Lure Conditioner,

original formula Hybrid is equally manageable on spinning tackle.

(The Ultra Soft has a higher percentage of nylon in the formula).

Gamma is fine line and some Hybrid users have switched to that brand.

The only negative is pricing, but it's juster higher, not outrageous.

I'm sure you would find Gamma to be very user friendly, too.

P-Line CXX is very popular here on the forum. I fished it exclusively

for several years. The line is tough as nails, but the memory is

atrocious, especially in cold weather.

So, as usual, we're faced with trade-offs.

8-)

[J Francho]

I'm using 8 and 10# CXX.  Since I use casting gear, memory and twist are non issues.  By going to 8#, you can easily get a long cast off, and the diameter won't hold your bait up.  My fishing partner used Yo-Zuri, in the same sizes, and we have similar results.

[J Francho]

Wow,  that's a lot of thought you put into this.  Let me ask you this though.  I have a crankbait that supposedly runs 4-6'.  If I'm fishing in 10' feet of water with a 2' visibility, how do I know if my crank is going to the 4-6' range or not?

Because your bait will snapping off the tops of coontail every few cranks, and likely get bitten by a nice fish  Seriously, if you're "pullin' water" on the entire retrieve, you aren't getting nearly enough attention from the fish.

[The_Natural]

The only correction I will make in your post is about fluoro stretching.  It generally stretches as much or more than copolymers.  The thought that fluoro doesn't stretch came from its use as a leader long before it was made suitable for main line use.  The fluoro leader material is stiff and indeed doesn't stretch much.  When they softened up the fluoro to make suitable for main line use; it gained stretch.  

[BARON49_Northern NY]

If trolling you will have a hard time getting the crank to the stated depth.

Great job on all the research you have done. However, as an old Muskie, Striper, and Walleye fisherman, trolling is one of the most popular ways of fishing for these species. I would like to point out normally a lure trolled will dive deeper then one that is cast and retrieved using the same exact line. It has been my experience that what ever is published on the package can be exceeded easily when trolling with .012 line and even deeper with thinner lines. The line when trolling that will get a lure to the deepest depth is braid due to the no stretch and thinner diameter.

Hope this helps with your research.  There is also a book published about what depth lures will run at when trolled and the same company publishes one now about lures that are cast and retrieved.  I will try to find the name of it for you.

[J Francho]

There are actually books with just about every crank made, and and the depths they can be trolled.  I can't think of the title, but one comes in a 3-ring binder and is waterproof.  I remember my uncle had a book plugs and depths way back.

[Bassn Blvd]

Wow, that's a lot of thought you put into this. Let me ask you this though. I have a crankbait that supposedly runs 4-6'. If I'm fishing in 10' feet of water with a 2' visibility, how do I know if my crank is going to the 4-6' range or not?

If you just want to test, color your line with something bright for the first 5 feet. Lets say a pink or neon sharpie. then tie the lure on and toss it out. Start retrieving. If your crank is diving about 5-6 feet, then your colored line should not be visible. If you are retrieving and you see pink line, then you are under 5 feet.

But remember, take your measurement when the lure is about 5 feet away from you. Because if you look at the line on a 40 yard cast, the angle will give you an innacurate reading point.

My ? was a hypothetical one.  I know how deep my lure can go...

[burleytog]

Yo-Zuri Hybrid Ultra Soft is nearly as limp as braid.

[J Francho]

The book is call Precision Trolling and it can be found here.

http://www.walleyecentral.com/romanack2.shtml

That's the one!