Leader to Braid Knot Help

[RWHusker.]

Please help me with a few questions.

1. Im tying 15# Pline Fluorocarbon line to 50# and 30# Sufix Braid.

Should I be using the fluoro leader line? If so what is the difference for $18 for 300 yds on the fluoro line vs. 25 meters for $8 on the leader line?

2.  It seems split on whether to use a leader of tie straight to the braid.  Tom Redington said to always use a leader so I've tried to follow his advice.  BTW our water isn't overly clear in Nebraska.

3.  I'm tying a double uni and on snags my line breaks at the leader knot.  The braid knot is there along with a coil of fluoro.  So it appears the leader knot or line is at fault.

Your opinions/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

GO BIG RED

[Tokyo Tony]

If you want to use leader, then why not? Better abrasion resistance around rocky stuff.

In my opinion, the Uni to Uni knot is the all-around best knot for braid to flouro. It's really easy and quick to tie, it's smaller than most other knots I've used, and it's one of the strongest. It's stronger than the blood knot, for example, and easier to tie.

I've been tying some Slim Beauty knots in my basement to experiment, and although they look a little smaller than the Uni to Uni, they're not as strong, according to my tests.

With braid to flouro knots, those are my three priorities (in order from most to least important): strength, small size, and how fast you can tie it. Uni to Uni has my vote.

Make sure when you tie it that you make 4 wraps with the flouro and 7-8 with the braid for best results.

[Wayne P.]

I use regular 20# fluorocarbon line, not the leader material, with 20# and 30# braids with the uni-uni knot connection. I always use 6 turns on both sides. Never any knot failures. I also use the uni-knot for the terminal tackle. The connection flows easily through size 6 rod tips. I trim the tag ends flush with the knot. Simple, strong, and effective. Where your breakoffs occur is not a surprise- 30#-50# vs 15#

[RWHusker.]

Where your breakoffs occur is not a surprise- 30#-50# vs 15#

Even though the diameter of the braid is smaller?

[OkobojiEagle]

If you have a "coil of the leader" remaining my bet is the braid knot is tightening and cutting the leader.  I always dab a little super glue to both sides of the knot to prevent this "over-tightening" of the braid knot.  Works for me... your mileage may vary.

[Wayne P.]

No, diameter has nothing to do with it, the braid strength is twice or more of the fluorocarbon. The fluorocarbon is the weakest link. Simple physics

[BassinDave]

I use 30lb braid and 12lb fluoro leader with a J-knot, always wet line before tightening knot. Never had a problem yet. Coil of fluoro attatched to knot on braid probably means that the fluoro was damaged by the braid when the knot was tightened, wetting line should lubricate line to prevent damage.

[Grey Wolf]

Eliminate the leader , end of problem.

[Garnet]

We have a wonderful thing around here called walleye season were we snap jig bucktails in heavy weed, rock and zebra mussels.

For the last 6 weeks I've been testing flouro and flouro leaders and the winners are BPS XPS and double surgeon knot. I used the same rods and reels just different flouro and different knots.

Garnet

[steve328]

A little dab of super glue on  the knot makes a lot of difference. I use 10 Fireline with a 10lb BPS XPS leader. Last time I went fishing I broke off probably 4 or 5 hooks ( submerged timber ) and never did break the leader knot. I use the slim beauty knot.

[SimonSays]

Try the Improved Albright knot (also known as Alberto knot) I've been using this one exclusively.  It's not difficult to tie once you get the hang of it and it's STRONG.  I use the trilene 100% pro fluoro at 8lb and i've never broken off at the leader.  The terminal knot (Imp cinch) will break before the leader knot.

[rboat]

Unless your water is really clear forget the leader. I used to use mono & floro and now use straight braid. I never noticed a decrease in strikes and no knot or leader break. To me, each knot is always a weak link. Give it a try.

[MickD]

I have used the uni knot for years on both bait casting (usually 20 # flouro to 30-50 # braid) and spinning (usually 10# flouro to 10-15 # braid) with very little trouble.  Due to wear and tear going through the guides, I retie every few days of fishing.

With rods with very small guides I sometimes feel that the knot is too big for the guides so have started to experiment with the Albright knot-too early to comment, but theoretically it should be a smaller knot than the Uni since it has fewer diameters of the line in the knot.

Another issue can be the length of the leader.  Short casts very well, as does long (leader much longer than the length of the rod), but some times when the leader is barely on the reel when the cast is started, it feels like it really hits the guides hard on the cast.  When it is the right length, you don't even feel it going through.

Obviously, if you can convince yourself that the braid is invisible to the fish, use no leader, but I'm not there yet.  And I really like braid.

I use the flouro that is designed to be line and not the super expensive leader kind of flouro, and have no indication that the flouro is a problem.  There are some flouros that seem to be very sensitive to knot procedures, so if you find a problem you might try a different brand, and be sure to wet the knot and slo o o wly pull it tight.  I've never used super glue.

Keep in mind that for your surface lure fishing you may not like the way flouro sinks and drags your lure under on the twitches.  If that becomes a problem, just use mono.

[ABC123]

Please help me with a few questions.

1. Im tying 15# Pline Fluorocarbon line to 50# and 30# Sufix Braid.

Should I be using the fluoro leader line? If so what is the difference for $18 for 300 yds on the fluoro line vs. 25 meters for $8 on the leader line?

2. It seems split on whether to use a leader of tie straight to the braid. Tom Redington said to always use a leader so I've tried to follow his advice. BTW our water isn't overly clear in Nebraska.

3. I'm tying a double uni and on snags my line breaks at the leader knot. The braid knot is there along with a coil of fluoro. So it appears the leader knot or line is at fault.

Your opinions/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

GO BIG RED

1) Nothing, if your using high quality, pure fluoro line. I use Carbon pro instead of "leader" line. IMO, it's the best "value" out there. Some tough stuff.

2) Do what you like, like what you do. I make sure I ALWAY's have a leader on braid when I'm fishing shallow. Depending on my mood, deep structure, and water clairity, I may or may not use a leader when I fish deeper water. Generally I do use them.

3) 2 suggestions: 1) Retie the leader on more often. 2) Make sure, as your cinching the knot, your not damaging the line. IMO, saliva is better than water to cinch knots, I alway's put the loose knot in my mouth and wet it before cinching.

[South FLA]

1. Im tying 15# Pline Fluorocarbon line to 50# and 30# Sufix Braid.

Should I be using the fluoro leader line? If so what is the difference for $18 for 300 yds on the fluoro line vs. 25 meters for $8 on the leader line?

IMHO:

Flouro "leader line" is stiffer and offers more abrasion resistance than "casting flouro line", though I am not sure it merits the extra cost.

That being said I use casting flouro line as leader unless I am fishing around high abrasion objects such as rocks and oyster bars.  I like the new Trilene 100% flourocarbon and P-line.  For Flouro leader you can't go wrong with Seagur brand.  I have been using it for years fishing for snook, reds, tarpon, and bass with no issues.  

2.  It seems split on whether to use a leader of tie straight to the braid.  Tom Redington said to always use a leader so I've tried to follow his advice.  BTW our water isn't overly clear in Nebraska.

IMHO:

I like the extra stretch the flouro gives me over straight braid, but then again you can set your drag a bit lighter and/or use a less stiff rod to make up for the no stretch of the braid.   If water is dingy then I don't think straight to lure/hook with braid vs. flouro makes a difference with visibility, but I can tell you for certain I have used straight braid while fishing for line sensitive SNOOK and guess what they DON'T BITE.  Lastly, if I am fishing a floating frog and/or a swimming frog I use straight braid, due to the conditions since braid seems to cut through weeds and lilly pads better if I catch a hog or simply get stuck.

3.  I'm tying a double uni and on snags my line breaks at the leader knot.  The braid knot is there along with a coil of fluoro.  So it appears the leader knot or line is at fault.

IMHO:

If two lines of equal strength are tied together the lines will break at the weakest link THE KNOT.  Unless someone in here can shed light on the a knot that test better than 100% of line's breaking strength.  The stronger line will not break first unless it is damaged. Secondly, braid will cut any flouro/mono/copoly attached  to it.  So it makes sense that your breaking off at the knot with the braid knot side of the uni still intact.

My top two knots for braid to mono/flouro/copoly........

1. Uni to Uni

2. Bimini twist on braid side to No Name Knot on leader side (I actually like this better, but I can tie a quicker Uni to Uni), when fishing for tarpon/snook I use it exclusively)

Link for No Name Knot

Link of Bimini Twist (remember you can adjust the size of loop)

http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/fishing_knots/knots_Bimini.html

Here is good link reviewing Flouro carbons

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2.html

[RWHusker.]

You guys are always a wealth of information.  Thanks guysl  I am committed to use leader unless the water doesn't warrant.  I'm going to replace my 15# with 20# on the next spool.  And I think I will by flouro casting line versus the more expensive leader line.  I am going to experiment with a few of the knots when Im prepping at the house and have time and directions but will stay with the uni to uni on the boat.  Thanks again

GO BIG RED

[BFBoy]

I'm using Gamma 25# Flouro as a leader on 30# and 40# Power Pro. I use a blood knot as a connector and have had excellent results. I mad a simple jig to tie the blood knot, and I am able to get very consistent knots.

[surfer]

I am with Tokyo Tony on this one.  I can tie that knot in the dark and its among the strongest.  My leader breaks off also like yours, but with the drag set to 1/2 or less of the rated line strength it is never an issue when a fish is on.  

[MichBassMan]

I've personally had the best sucess with the Alberto knot. However that said, unless the water is gin clear I no longer use a leader when pitching or flipping a jig. It's 65# green power pro right from the reel to the jig, add a lil megastrike to the trailer and they eat it like candy. No knot to fail, no knot bouncing thru the guides.