spiral wrapped

[.dsaavedra.]

what is a spiral wrapped rod? ive heard it a bunch and ive always thought it was jsut the way they wrapped the threads to make it look pretty. i just say theredtorpedos new rod and its spiral wrapped and i noticed the guides werent in a line. is tht what spiral wrapped is? the guides go up the blank in a spiral instead of a line?

what are the advantages of this? seems like it would greatly reduce casting abilities and make lots of friction when you reel in...

[castaway]

Rod builders have been using this type of guide positioning since the 1920's, it's nothing new.A guy named Chuck Roberts built rods using this system, many people still refer to it as the Roberts wrap today.If your out west, it is known as acid wrap.The spiral positioning , if done correctly,has a great advantage over conventional casting rod guide system. It allows the line to go from the top of the blank, to the bottom as a spinning rod guide system is designed.The rod is less likely to twist, when fighting a fish and it prevents the line from coming in contact with the rod blank as well.Of course, when using the normal casting guide system. The rod builder would lay the rod guides out to prevent the line from coming in contact with the blank,but the rod could still be subjected to twist under load pressures. The mass production of factory made rods don't take the time to build the guides correctly for the specific rod blank. :-?

[Gatorbassman]

I spiral wrap all the rods I build. They are, by design, better fighting rods then the standard guide placement. The lighter the action of the blank the more you notice this advantage. I don't think there are any production rods that are spiral wrapped.

[castaway]

I spiral wrap all the rods I build. They are, by design, better fighting rods then the standard guide placement. The lighter the action of the blank the more you notice this advantage. I don't think there are any production rods that are spiral wrapped.

What makes them better fighting rods, than the standard straight guide system ?  :-/

It is possible that a rod builder could take apart your existing factory made rods and make them better.I am not a rod builder, but I just had a couple of factory rods redone by a friend who does build rods.I don't know what he does, but you can tell that they are more sensitive, than they were. He also added nice decorative wraps, a better lure keeper and put my name on the blanks as well as removed the foregrip on them as I wanted. I think he went through alot of trouble to prove the point that he could make them better, from a rather heated discussion at the local tackle shop meeting. We were verbally beating him up pretty good. You know he was right, he did make them alot better. Ivan

[.dsaavedra.]

thanks guys.

i still think that going thru all those curves would reduce casting distance though....

[Guest muddy]

Well from experience I can tell you it has no effect on casting distance None once so ever. The spiral rod Alpster built for me is my first and the next custom built i get will also be spiral wrapped. Fighing a fish with the spirals is so much better than with conventional wraps. But I guarentee the spiral wrap has nothing to do with shorting the cast and everything to do with fighting a fish 8-)

[.dsaavedra.]

ok thanks for clearing that up....i'd dont know if i'd like a spiral wrapped rod.

[Guest muddy]

do you use baitcasting equipment?

[Gatorbassman]

ok thanks for clearing that up....i'd dont know if i'd like a spiral wrapped rod.

I thought that at first but I don't think that anymore. I will always build my rods with a spiral wrap.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

What makes them better fighting rods, than the standard straight guide system ?  :-/

Because the eyes are on the spline of the rod, it's natural backbone.  No twist.

[flechero]

Dave,

When built right, you'll see NO decrease in casting distance or accuracy.  The only difference you might feel is that after a few hours of cranking or spinnerbait fishing, you should be less fatigued.  Most of the benefit is for the rod, not the fisherman.

If you want more detail or in depth info try a quick search of the tacklemaking and rods,reels sections- using all dates and spiral, acid or roberts wrap(ped)"  You'll get all of your questions answered and then some.  

[dbass]

Actually IMPO the best way to get your answerers about a spiral wrapped rod would be to USE one, then make your decisions on whether or not it is for you.

Many anglers even when educated about the spiral wrap system, and accept what the system actually does, still will not own one do the strange look the rods have..

Guess if you made the rod out of carrot sticks then spiral wrapped it, it wouldn't be such a oddity would it...

Just my .02¢

Tight Lines All!  

[castaway]

What makes them better fighting rods, than the standard straight guide system ? :-/

Because the eyes are on the spline of the rod, it's natural backbone. No twist.

Thank You for the answer. Ivan

[lubina]

This is something I haven't talk to anyone before, I have one spiraled on a SC II H, St. Croix blank built by David Green and I feel I can get faster in a fight and get fish out of the nasty easier with that rod vs with other with the same rating.........

It is a dream to fish with anyway.....

[dbass]

What makes them better fighting rods, than the standard straight guide system ?  :-/

Because the eyes are on the spline of the rod, it's natural backbone.  No twist.

Actually the spine has nothing to do with the backbone of a rod. That is found in the taper of the rod blank when rolled.

I have posted this before and will again here...

Spine:

Or "Effective Spine" is an effect created by several manufacturing anomalies. The result is that the rod blank will favor bending along a particular axis when load is applied.

Spiral Wrap:

A method for taking the line to the bottom of the rod on conventional casting type rods. Results in a rod which will not twist under load and is inherently stable.

[dave]

David,

I once had a custom rod maker (more than a few actually)  talk about finding the spine of each rod they build.  One then told me that neither St. Croix or GLoomis do this.  I called St. Croix the following Monday and they confirmed that they don't.  He said that the graphite,  once it is rolled,  has a natural curve/bend.  Is this what is meant by the effective spine?  Your opinion as a rod maker?

[dbass]

Dave,

One then told me that neither St. Croix or GLoomis do this.  I called St. Croix the following Monday and they confirmed that they don't.  He said that the graphite,  once it is rolled,  has a natural curve/bend.  Is this what is meant by the effective spine?

Builders have known for a long time, the manufacturers cannot take the time to spine a rod, it cuts down on production times. Hell I use a thread finish that takes a minimum of 8 hers to cure to touch, most all large manufacturers use an ultraviolet triggered finish that takes 10 minuets to cure. Also look at the grips manufacturers are using they are preformed, they don't have a lathe turning cork anywhere in the plant, even those that are now producing split grips Ha Ha what a joke they are nothing more than foregrips cut to be used as split grips. All in the word of production times....

There have been some strong threads on the rod building forum, many of the old timers have started placing guides on the curve of the blank, and stating that finding the spine of a rod isn't as necessary as once believed.

But the threads are mainly from builders, trying to figure out how to place the guides on the spine of the blank, when there is a dogleg or curve in the blank. The answer is usually don't worry about spining the blank, just put the guides on the curve, that it usually runs only a quart turn off of the spine. I sometimes think that is were the turn natural curve came from.

IMPO the only natural curve that I have ever seen on a rod blank, was when I took posession of a bent, or, crooked rod blank.

IMPO it is still a necessity to spine a rod to get the full impact of the spine in the rods setup.

I have been building and finding the spine in all my custom builds for 15+ years now, and will continue to do so..

Hope this answered your question and doesn't confuse.

Tight Lines All!!!!  

[dave]

Absolutely.

[MickD]

It wasn't mentioned yet that there are a number of ways to do the spiral wrap.  My last rod was done with the "simple spiral" as recommended by Tom Kirkman of the Rodbuilders.org forum http://www.rodbuilding.org/list.php?2.  I think Reelmech has some good info on spiral on this site-will check and report back.

My last casting rod was built this way and before I wound the guides I tried it with simple spiral, conventional, and a progressive spiral, and could find no difference in casting performance.

You can easily demonstrate the advantage you get in fish fighting by taking a conventional casting rod, and load the rod with the rod in one hand and the line in the other, starting with the line directly under the rod tip.  Generate a substantial bend in the rod with the line aligned right under the tip, then move your hand with the line outboard so that the rod is being loaded somewhat from the side.  When your line hand gets far enough outboard the rod will snap over with the end guides now going under the rod instead of staying on top.  The rod will have twisted 180 degrees in an instant.

If when fighting a fish you always have your conventional casting rod pointed at the fish then you may not feel a difference, but if the rod is loaded from the side, then you will see and feel a conventional rod snap as in the experiment above.  The spiral rod will be stable under any loading conditions, and as a result will be stressed less (no twist + bend, only bend).

Rodbuilding.org has a library that had the instructions for the simple spiral, but in a nutshell it goes like this:  Size and locate your guides in a normal fashion for your casting rod.  Put the rear-most guide on top, and all others on the bottom, but in the same axial locations as if you were going to wind a conventional rod.  Add an extra guide 1/2 way between the normal guides 1 and 2 and locate it at 90 degrees to the others.  I put that guide on the right side so it will be up when I lay the rod down with the reel handles up.  It should be no bigger than normal guide number 2 and should be a very low profile guide.  Its only function is to keep the line off the rod during the transition from the top to the bottom, and it will be loaded, as all others are, directly in line with the foot of the guide (this is important on heavy duty rods).

[MickD]

Couldn't find what I thought I remembered from Reelmech.  There is a lot of info on Rodbuiders.org and just do google search for spiral wrapped fishing rods.

[dave]

Couldn't find what I thought I remembered from Reelmech.  There is a lot of info on Rodbuiders.org and just do google search for spiral wrapped fishing rods.

FYI  DavidG is the REELMECH