Hi everyone, need some help, noisy bait caster.

[Rich G]

Hi, I recently purchased a Daiwa Alpha bait cast reel from Japan Tackle. The reel has made noise since the day I purchased it. I did add a drop of oil on the spool bearings before I used it the first time. I was reading a post about the Alpha reels ( any new reel ) that said to check and oil the spool bearings before you use the reel the first time because they could be dry, they did seem a little dry and did not spin too freely. After I oiled the bearing I still had noise and thought that maybe i should try a different oil. I re oiled the bearings and have tried three or four different reel oils and it is still noisy. So i finally decided maybe I have to much oil built up or something so I removed the clip from the magnetic cast control bearing to remove and flush out the bearing and check for wear. Of course the little retainer clip popped off and was lost.( I thought I was being careful not to loose it ) I proceeded to remove the bearing. When the bearing came out I looked inside the bearing cavity and noticed what looked like small very fine metal particles. I proceeded to remove the the spacers from the bearing cavity to remove the particles and clean out the cavity. I noticed there was three spacers, first being a oring type spacer, second being a what looks like a graphite spacer with a pattern across it that was in contact with the end of the spool shaft and a smooth brass spacer behind it that contact's the screw that removes the magnetic brake. I am thinking that the smooth brass spacer should be next to the spool. I am wondering if anyone can tell me if the brass spacer should be next to the spool end and the graphite spacer should go behind the brass spacer ? I made a new clip to retain the bearing and put the brass spacer next to the spool, I also lightly polished the end of the spool with 1200 grit emery cloth to remove some pretty substantial roughness on the end of the spool shaft. Does it seem that I am on the right track? I was thinking of trying the reel again tomorrow to see if it makes less noise. Thank you for you advise in advance, sorry for the long post, have a great day, Rich.

[Raul]

Sol & Alphas lubing & oiling, aside from some insignificant differences ( different handle & different gear material ) they are the same reel. Check your schematics to see where does that part you are mentioning is located.

BTW, which kind of oil you used to lubricate the bearings ? the wrong oil viscosity in those bearings worsens any sound.

[lubina]

My Alpha F also came with a casting noise, so did a couple of my latest TD-Zs.....what I do with my reels, I oil them just out of the box and they go in the hybrid ceramic ball bearing upgrade list....it is worth every dollar!!!!!

[Rich G]

Hi Raul, thank you for reel maintenance link and reply. I tried the Quantum Hot Sauce first, then the Pen reel oil, then Abu Garcia reel oil. The Pen reel oil seemed to deaden the noise the best and longest. Non of these oils stopped the noise for a day of use. I did download the schematic for the Daiwa Sol since I could not read the Japanese schematic that came with the Alpha. The  Sol schematic has the parts I am in question about as Spacer A, Spacer B, and they do not look any different to me on the schematic, I can tell that Spacer C seems to be the O-ring spacer that rests against the edge of the spool bearing. I am thinking that the Spacer B should be the smooth Brass spacer that lightly makes contact with the end of the spool shaft. The spool shaft was pretty rough and probably should not have been that rough from a reel that has only been out fishing probably six times. I will know more tomorrow when I use the reel again. Thank you again for your link and reply, have a great day, Rich.

[Rich G]

Hi Lubina, you must have been typing at the same time I was. Thank you for your reply. I was thinking about upgrading the bearings to ceramic because I like the reel I just do not like the noise. While reading some posts about reel maintenance, it seems you should not have to oil your reel after every fishing trip, like I tried to do to get rid of the noise. Lubina which kind of ceramics did you buy and from who did you purchase them from, I may want to upgrade if i can not cure the noise with what I just changed as far as the order the spool tension washers was in. Have a great day, Rich.

[Raul]

The oil I use for my Alphas, Pixys & TDZs is Daiwa oil ( you can also use Shimano oil ), it 's extremely low in viscosity ( almost like water ) but it goes away easily so I oil those bearings every trip. I have to say that the Alphas & the Pixy do make a louder hum when you cast and the spool is rotating than other reels I have, I attribute it to the sideplate design and material acting as a resonance chamber.

[Rich G]

Hi Raul, I will see if changing the order of the reel shim spacers has any effect. I never adjusted the spool tension so that the spool would stop when the lure comes in contact with the ground, I always left just a very very small amount of end play in the spool to try and get the farthest cast possible. I think that now that I have a smooth spool shaft spacer shim against the spool shaft that it just might make less of a humming noise when casted. I was a little surprised to find the bearing end washer is a soft material, I may try a different material for that washer also, I can see a hum coming from a bearing that is allowed to oscillate side to side at the end of the spool shaft. I will post if I have any luck testing the reel tomorrow. Thank you for your help and advice, have a great day, Rich.

[pathfndr2]

I recently had the same trouble with a different brand.  Tried about everything you have.  Culprit was simply a bad bearing.  Replaced the bearing and end of the trouble.   Dunno if bearing was bad from the manufacturer or what.  Inspection with a magnifying glass revealed a not perfectly smooth surface.  Looked  etched as if it had been subjected to something corrosive.  

[.RM.]

I am thinking that the smooth brass spacer should be next to the spool. I am wondering if anyone can tell me if the brass spacer should be next to the spool end and the graphite spacer should go behind the brass spacer ? I made a new clip to retain the bearing and put the brass spacer next to the spool, I also lightly polished the end of the spool with 1200 grit emery cloth to remove some pretty substantial roughness on the end of the spool shaft. Does it seem that I am on the right track?

DO NOT change the orientation of the shims for the palming plate bearings. The order is the copper first, then the ceramic (smooth side up), then the oil ring (keeps the ceramic shim oiled), then the bearing pack.

The bearing that is probably making the noise is the spool support bearing behind the engagement T. If you try to take this bearing off of the spool shaft, don't bend the T or score the shaft...

Good Luck & Tight Lines!!!!

[Rich G]

Hi reelmechanic, I did not read your response before I went fishing to see if the reel made less noise. It did make a little less noise but I still was not satisfied. I came home and checked for posts here about my problem. I want to say thank you for your response. I removed the the left palm plate again and removed the bearing to arrange the shims for the palm plate bearing as you suggested. I did notice there is a dull ruff side and shiny somewhat smooth side to the ceramic shim, it originally was definitely the dull rough side against the spool shaft when I took it apart to look at the bearing. I put the ceramic shim shiny side to spool shaft and will see if there is a difference. reelmechanic could you tell me what would be the best bearings to buy for this reel in hopes that new bearings would help keep the noise down when casting, also what oil would make it through a day of casting, (if any)  I like to throw lipless crankbaits and spinnerbaites to find actively feeding fish and then switch to soft plastics if the conditions are right. Thank you for your response and have a great day, Rich.

[lubina]

Lubina which kind of ceramics did you buy and from who did you purchase them from, I may want to upgrade if i can not cure the noise with what I just changed as far as the order the spool tension washers was in. Have a great day, Rich.

Rich for my Alpha I used ZPI Sic that you can find ( order ) at Japan Tackle or Plat. These bearings have no shield so there are easier to clean but you have to do it more often, pretty much after every trip. Most of my Daiwas have TG Rocket hybrid ceramic and this is by far my favorite, you can get them from Heartland Tackle. I have also used his SS ones that are more economical. VXB and Bocas are also very good.

Changing the bearing and the drag washers made a big difference in my Alpha, I also added a bearing to the worm shaft like the TD-Z has and changed the handle to a 90 mm with 4 bearings. My latest thing was  a I'ze red spool.

I use TG Rocket Yellow oil for the bearings and Shimano for every thing else.

Let me know if you need further help.

[.RM.]

I did notice there is a dull ruff side and shiny somewhat smooth side to the ceramic shim, it originally was definitely the dull rough side against the spool shaft when I took it apart to look at the bearing. I put the ceramic shim shiny side to spool shaft and will see if there is a difference.

Yea in assembly line production they have an orientation that the stack should be in. But sometime shims get turned over, in the hurry up mode they are constantly in...

reelmechanic could you tell me what would be the best bearings to buy for this reel in hopes that new bearings would help keep the noise down when casting, also what oil would make it through a day of casting, (if any)

You would think with all the hype the JDM's get around here you wouldn't hear about noisy Daiwa Itö reels. I just got done putting one back together for a member here (RedlineRobert) that had sit for 4 months waiting on side covers to be anodized. The parts were cleaned and placed in baggies for that time, when the reel was re-assembled with lubrication as I would with all reels, no noise and plenty of free spooling.

Can you describe the noise this reel has made since day one?

The oil that came with the reel should be used, if none availible, I have the oil I use availible in my supply shop on-line it is the same as Shimano's..

lubina, has given you good info if your intent on changing the bearings out.. I never recommend bearing changes to higher ABEC ratings, unless you need the rotation speed for casting competitions...Also if you do change to a higher rated bearing you will need a much lighter viscosity reel oil and re-lube more often...

Good Luck & Tight Lines!!!

[Rich G]

 Hi Lubina and reelmechanic, I want to say thank you again for your replies, they are very helpful. I was not to sure if it made a big difference but the reel I purchased was a Alpha 103 Type-F . I think they may have different bearings than the Ito Alpha model. A description of the noise it makes would be a whirring or whizzing type noise when casting, after a hour of casting a whirring, screeching noise mix. It is kind of hard to describe, I can tell there is a big difference from the noise my reel makes compared to other fisherman using similar bait-casters, my reel seems like a siren compared to there,s. I use mostly quarter ounce baits so I do not think I am over powering the reel. I have tried different lines thinking it could just be noise from the line going through the line guide, I tried spooling less line so the line would have a straighter line path entering the line guide. ( P-Line and Gama 8 lb. ) I think maybe that I just put to much into my cast and that maybe any reel I buy will make the same noise. I make my own fishing rods and I wanted this reel to work as a lite weight run and gun reel, I used on a ac68mxf blank. When I purchased this reel I had the Daiwa zillionare and the Revo STX in mind also. I think maybe I should have chosen the Daiwa Zillionare. I think the next reel I purchase will be from a local business like Bass Pro Outdoor World, I think they told me they have a thirty day return policy that they will replace or exchange for another product. I know that I can do some serious testing in thirty days. I think after a few casts I will know if the reel is a keeper. I am not absolutely sure that is what they told me but I think so.

  I have a couple old Daiwa ProCaster X 153i reels, five ball bearing reels. One is like new but was in the box in a hot garage attic for ten plus years, the other I used off and on over the years, and did not remember that reel making the kind of noise my Alpha reel makes, I cleaned and re lubed the bearings in those reels and they make noise now also, maybe it is that I have better fishing rods know that just accelerate the lure much faster than what I used to fish with and that is where all the noise is coming from, just the spool turning faster than the bearings can handle.

  I am going to try and find someone in Colorado from a Colorado fishing forum that uses bait-casting reels and let them use my rod and see if maybe they notice more noise from there reel also. I just cannot remember bait-casting reels making so much noise, maybe it is because I have mostly been using spinning reels for the last few years and it is all my imagination or perception of how much noise a bait-casting reel makes. I admit when I fish I do go for the longest cast possible most of the time and bring my lure back threw the targeted area. Sorry for the long posts and thank you again for your help, have a great day, Rich.

[.RM.]

whirring or whizzing type noise when casting, after a hour of casting a whirring, screeching noise mix.

This to me would be the result of a dry shim with a high speed spool shaft end rotating on and off of it. Are you real lose on your cast control cap setting?

Reason, there should be no lateral movement of the spool. Before setting the free spooling rate (Cast Control), adjust the CC cap so that there is no lateral movement of the spool, this is to be your zero (0) adjustment. From there you can tighten, but do not loosen from that zero adjustment. It does nothing but cause undo wear and tear on the spool shaft and bearing shims, not to mention make some strange noises.

I just cannot remember bait-casting reels making so much noise, maybe it is because I have mostly been using spinning reels for the last few years and it is all my imagination or perception of how much noise a bait-casting reel makes.

This may be part of the problem. Not using a type of reel can make you listen differently to the workings of the reel.

Good Luck & Tight Lines!!!

[Rich G]

Hi reelmechanic, thank you for all your help. I was going maybe a tad loose on the cast control setting, I thought that maybe a thousandth of a inch or two would not harm or cause problems. The last time I was out fishing to see if I cured any noise I did adjust the control cap so that the lure would fall to the ground and the spool would not keep rotating, it seemed to make the whirring noise the same as when I left a thousandth or two end play. I will fish with the control cap so there is no lateral movement from now on. I have not casted the Alpha reel since I faced the smooth side of the ceramic shim to the spool so I may some luck yet. Thank you for all your help, have a great day, Rich.

[Rich G]

Hi reelmechanic and Lubina, I want to say thank you for all your help and advice. I got to do a little casting today after I had the ceramic spool shim turned with the shinny side toward the spool shaft. It seems that almost 100 percent of the noise is gone, I am so happy I can not believe it. Thank you reel mechanic for telling me that there was a smooth side to the ceramic bearing shim. When I noticed the spool shaft was ruffed up and the wear mark on the ruff side of the ceramic spool shim I thought that the brass shim must be meant to go against the spool, but as reelmechanic so nicely pointed out the shims where in the right order and that there is a smooth side also to the ceramic shim which did not even dawn on me to look at closer. My eyesight is not what it used to be. Thank you both again for your help, have a great day, Rich.

[lubina]

It seems that almost 100 percent of the noise is gone, I am so happy I can not believe it.

Glad that your noise is gone. When casting light lures no many reels do better than the Alpha.

[.RM.]

Rich G,

Probably a combination of oiled bearings and shim faces, plus the CCcap zero adjustment.

Tight Lines!!!  

[Rich G]

  Hi reelmechanic, you are right a combination of things. At first when I got the reel I added a drop of oil to the spool bearings, it seemed like it would not hurt. Adjusted the casting cap and was happy and did not hear any noise for a while anyway, maybe a half hour, then the reel started to make noise no matter how I had the casting cap adjusted. Finally when I got fed up with hearing the noise and re oiling the bearings that had no effect. I disassembled and noticed the chrome metal fragments in the left side plate bearing center. I think if the ceramic shim was smooth side to the spool at the start all wood have been OK. I know that it took two tries to get the ceramic bearing shim to stay smooth side up when I replaced it, it wanted to roll over real easily. Thank you for your help reelmechanic I do not think I would have ever checked for a smooth side to that shim if you would not have told me about it.

  I think that I may give the ABEC 5 Ceramic bearings a try someday to see if I can notice a improvement, I do not mind having to oil more often as long as it is not more than twice a day when out fishing for a ten to twelve hours a day. I do cast a lot so I may be better of with the type bearings I have that will hold oil longer. I can not find where to order Daiwa spool shims from, the older Daiwa I always used could use them but the one I had in the attic they are like new probably because they are I guess. Thank you again for your help reelmechanic, have a great day, Rich.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

Some excellent help here guys, well done.