Rod Sensitivity� Upgrade or BIG Upgrade ?

[surfer]

This is my first post. I have been reading for about two months and wanted to thank all of you for such detailed ideas and tips. It has made my 6 months of fishing grow in leaps and bounds.

I also want to thank you all for introducing me to the Bait Monkey. We got a long great for a while. He would tell me what to buy and in turn the bass would bite. Lately he hasn't lived up to his end of the bargain. So now I want to make friends with the rod ranger, or whatever you guys call him. I am ready to step up and get a more sensitive rod. I have a few questions just to make sure I understand correctly.

I have only paid attention to fishing for about 6 months now. I use Suffix braid with floro leader (thanks to this message board). I have a 7 ft ugly stick with a Cardinal reel and a 6'6" Abu Garcia $40 combo. I also have a Shimano Sahara real that I intend to pair with a new rod. I was about to upgrade to a 7' Fenwick GT. After reading a few threads about Rod Sensitivity and Rod vs. Real: Which is More Important it sounds like I should spend the $200+ and get one of the guarantied for life rods. I can justify the price if spread it across the remainder of my fishing years.

G. Loomis vs. Fenwick

Is a G Loomis IMX too much upgrade for a novice? Will I be able to appreciate it or will it just make a bunch of confusing noise in my hand? Am I better off learning on a Fenwick GT ($60) for a year or two before I make the big jump? :-/

Thanks in advence.

[Raul]

There is no such thing as too much of an upgrade, if I had all the choices we now have back then 3+ decades when I started fishing I would have started with GLoomis or StCroix.

My philosophy is: spend the most you can right here right now once and for all so you won 't have to spend in the future unless you want another.

This doesn 't mean in any way I 'm implying that you should spend right now 200+ plus in a rod, what I mean is to spend your money wisely, there are plenty options out there.

-GLoomis GL2 are cheap compared to other GLoomis models and are great rods and a quantum leap forward from that Fenwick you have in mind.

-StCroix Avid are also top notch at a good price, better than GL2s just a lil bit more expensive.

-Falcon Cara is another great rod for the money

-Shimano Crucial for what I 've heard are similar to a GL2 in characteristics.

None of those rods I mentioned exceeds the 140 dollars mark ( depending upon model & length ) which is really not that much for what you get for your money when it comes to lightness and sensitivity.

You are asking: Am I better off learning on a Fenwick GT ($60) for a year or two before I make the big jump?

Why spend 60 dollars now and more in the future ? 60 + the cost of the future rod = nonsense.

Why nonsense ? because under those conditions you could have purchased an even better rod right from the begining.  

[roadwarrior]

If you buy another brand now, you'll probably still end up buying a G.Loomis sometime down the road, but if you buy a Loomis now chances are you won't buy another brand "down the line." I fish other brands including a Fenwick Techna (AVS70MM), three of my rods are St. Croix and I have one Lamiglas. Over the years I have owned All Star, Lightning Rod and a number of Zebcos. If I had it all to do over or just moving forward, I would buy G.Loomis.

Specifically:

Spinning: SJR783S or SJR843S  http://www.reedssports.com/Product.taf?_function=detail&_ID=1271

If you hit "Add to cart" you'll see a 10% discount, no sales tax and free shipping= $220.50 delivered

Baitcasting: MBR844C  http://www.reedssports.com/Product.taf?_function=detail&_ID=555

$234 delivered

[jayhawkfishin]

If you can afford it why not go for it is my question.  It will most likely make your time on the water better.  

If you plan to continue fishing why not get the good stuff.

[surfer]

I assumed you guys were going to go that way and had already prepared two more questions. But you already answered those also. Thanks for the link and thanks for the sound advice.

Just for fun i will post the other two questions.

Choosing a high end rod.

I am not %100 sold on G. Loomis, but listening to you guys it sounds like I can't go wrong with a G. Loomis. I fish 45% weightless and 1/8 oz t-rigs in light to heavy cover, 45% weightless plastic buzz tails in light to heavy cover, and 10% Spoons, Rapalas, etc.

Now don't laugh, but I only use spinning reels. It's just a personal preference as my time is limited and I don't want to learn a casting set up and untie three birds nest per session. I have also grown accustom to a 7ft rod. Anytime I use something else it just feels weird.

SJR842S GL3 vs. SJR843S IMX

I notice on the G. Loomis web site SJR842S fits nicely being a M Fast rod, but is only offered in GL3. Would I be better of getting the M/H Fast SJR843S in IMX ?

[huskertko]

If you buy another brand now, you'll probably still end up buying a G.Loomis sometime down the road, but if you buy a Loomis now chances are you won't buy another brand "down the line.".....

Couldn't have said it better, it is kind of like the saying coaches have about retirement, if your thinking about it, it is already time to pull the trigger.  I bought cheap rods then moved up to better rods, then finally bought my first loomis.  Now it is just a matter of time until the wallet weighs enough to buy another one.

[Jig Man]

I have the IMX blank in 843c in both spinning and baitcaster.  In baitcaster it is great.  In spinning it is one step more than I like.  If I had do overs I would back down to an 842.

[The Next KVD]

you can't go wrong with St. Croix Avid series.

[fishindad]

surfer,

These folks have all given you great advice. Like them, I have used many brands of rods including custom built by Thorne Bros. as well as Loomis IMX and GLX. I can add a few things to consider.

1. What techniques do you like to bass fish with? If you're a 'rookie' then I suggest you learn what I call the 4 basics: wormin, jigs, spinnerbaits and crankbaits. By this I mean two vertical techniques and two horizontal techniques. If you had four high/top end rod and reel combos to do this it could set you back $1K-$2K easily.

2. Are you rough on your tackle? I am guessing you may not have a rod locker on your boat? High end tackle is like an investment and you need to take care of it. Maybe not baby it but ask any of these guys and I'm sure they'll tell you you can't neglect your stuff and let it bounce around in the boat.

3. It is not what rod and reel you're using that matters in boating fish, it's how well you can present the baits and how well you can detect strikes, especially when fishing jigs and worms. You need to develop a feel for casting and working these baits...there is no shortcut to catching fish.

All that said, if I had to do it all over again, I would agree with roadwarrior and have all Loomis (or St. Croix) top end rods and Daiwa (or Shimano) reels. However, in my humble opinion, I say you should look at Falcon rods, specifically the Lowrider series. These are IMO the best value as well as they have an incredible selection of bass specific rods to choose from. I can recommend a few if you like. You can get two for the price of an IMX and what you want to do now is start with one really nice spinning combo and one really nice casting combo. Bite the bullet and learn how to use a baitcaster and you won't regret it. In any case, look at Falcon's LFS-5-1610, a MH spin rod 6'10" long, a sweet rod (I have the casting version). With 10-12 lb. line it can do all the heavier stuff. For the lighter stuff they have the LFS-4-1610, a new rod I have not used.

I am not sponsored in any way by Falcon (or any other rod company) I'm just a weekend angler who like everyone else, is still learning about bass fishing. I hope I didn't confuse you even more. Good luck with your rod selection. You can't go go wrong with any of the rod companies like Loomis, St. Croix, Falcon or Lamiglas (all made in the USA).

Jim

[Hawgin]

If you buy another brand now, you'll probably still end up buying a G.Loomis sometime down the road, but if you buy a Loomis now chances are you won't buy another brand "down the line."

Okay, time for a quick editorial interjection.

I know you would never believe this from reading this message board, but there actually are some of us out here that own other top in rods besides G. Loomis, and have been completely satisfied with our rods.  I think Loomis rods are excellent and I will not bad mouth their products, however personally I own several Fenwick Techna AV's and I've never said, "Gee, I wish I would have bought a Loomis instead."  Yes, I have fished with both IMX's and GLX's, and they are great.  I will put my rods up against them any day.  Guys who fish top end Kistler's, St. Croixs, Powell's, etc feel the same way.  If you buy a Loomis you will never regret your decision, but then again you may feel the same about other top end rods.  I would recommend that you pick a price point and then handle several rods in that range.  Don't limit yourself to just looking at one brand because that's the name you hear the most.  

[Guest avid]

Fishing rod technology has come a long way in the past 10 years.

Those of us who advocate Loomis and St. Croix do it as much for the outstanding customer service that has a long standing reputation for excelence.  No doubt there rods are the finest but you could pay $500 for a megabass rod and arguably have the finest off the rackrod built in the world today, but close the truck door on it and you have the worlds most expensive back scratcher.

they won't do a thing for you.

[surfer]

Thanks everyone.

I am novice enough to not know everything I need to look for in a rod.  Smart enough to admit it and ask for help.  To be honest I trust your opinions better than my own.  Three months ago (before I joined this forum) I read an article that compared rods and praised Ugly Stick.  So I went in Bass Pro, picked it up, whipped it around, and it felt fine.  Fished with it for about three outings before I realized the sensitivity was terrible.  So I switched back to my old rod for fines tactics.

I have weighed all that I have read here and on other threads.  From what I gather there are two answers that I have received to the first two questions big upgrade and Loomis.  1) Yes  2) There are other options, but that's a good option.  I am not going to put another thought into it.  I am going to push the easy button.

Obviously I want to catch more fish.  But I know the rod won't do it for me, but it dose increase the sensitivity factor or strike detection as FishinDad puts it..

The expeditor service is like icing on the cake. I have no intentions of breaking it, but that is one nice safety net to have on this kind of investment

Every body who has offered up a another brand aside form G. Loomis also said in the same post you can't go wrong with a G. Loomis.  I find that to mean other brands compete, hold their own, and even surpass G Loomis, but never by much.  That makes it sound like a crap shout for a novice like me to find one better than G. Loomis.  Easy button pushed.

FishinDad,

You have said some great advice for a novice there.  I didn't know there were 4 basics.  I have throw spinners and crainkbaits with some success.  I thought they were the same type of presentation.  Throw it out and real it back in.  If you can, go slow and close to the tops of the underwater weeds.  Tell me more if you have time.

I like wormin texas and weightless texas mostly in a deadstick style when the wind allows it.  Just learning Carolina. Never jiged.  What category would a soft plastic buzz bait fall into.  I have had great success with these as the go very slow and make a nice gurgling sound on the surface as I real.

I don't consider myself rough on my tackle.  I have only broken one rod in 5 years.  My dumb mistake of picking it up by the tip thinking it was stronger.  I don't have a rod locker.  Only rod holders when I am under way and I lay them down when fishing.

I am still working on presentation.  I had no ideal there were so many presentations that work.  Then again anything can work.  As for the strike detection I am working on that with a rod upgrade and more water time.  I enjoy watching the line with calm winds.

Thanks again everyone.

[SneakySnook]

Buy the g-loomis now and you spend $60 now and $200 later. Spend the $260 now and get a great g-loomis rod. You won't be dissappointed.

[LAO162]

Thoughts from a newbie...

Assuming the G Loomis is "reasonable" for your budget, buy it if know you will regret buying something less expensive. In my many hobbies, I always find that I upgrade to the "standard" that I wanted in the first place. Buyer's remorse is a horrible thing Besides, as you increase your arsenal in the future, you will always have a solid reference when comparing other rods.

That said, don't blow your whole budget on 1 rod, you still need other tackel (and things like shelter, food, clothing, heat )

Something to consider. Before buying your ultimate rod, think about the type of fishing you will do most of the time. You won't want a jig rod if you spend most of your time with crankbaits. And, you you may not want a 7' MH rod if you are a "finesse" fisherman. Thus, the cost of a "decent" general purpose rod may not be wasted if it allows you to fish for a season while you learn what type of high-end rod you need for next season (and the rest of your fishing career).  

Cheers!  Leon

[phase5supply]

you can't go wrong with St. Croix Avid series.

I agree

[fishindad]

Hey surfer,

Thanks for asking questions, that is how we learn, right? And, thanks for not taking my comment about being rough on tackle too personally. I just meant that even with the limited replacement warranty, if you break a Loomis (I have) or St. Croix, you'll feel bad anyway until you get the new rod, which is not 'free' but will feel like it when compared to buying a new one outright. Anyway, stick with your decision and don't buy any tackle based on what someone else uses or says works for them. Only after you gain experience (which really means spend lots more money on tackle) will you figure what equipment works best for you.

As far as the 4 main presentations, I was generalizing, based on which lures have won money in BASS/FLW tournaments. Not that the weekend fisherman (like me) will fish the same lures as a tournament fisherman. For example, I have a demanding job and 2 kids which means my time on the water is very limited. So I choose to fish the way that is most enjoyable to me as well as the most productive based on where I fish (natural lakes) and what I fish for (smallies). I choose to fish mainly soft plastics, mostly grubs, jigs, and tubes. (I love a jig bite; that telltale 'thunk' always makes me excited). So I can get by with one or two rods really.

You hit the nail on the head that horizontal presentations are generally retrieved fast and the jigs and worms (vertyical) are fished slow. When the fish are active, meaning at certain times of the year, it is hard to beat a fast presentation. The fish will chase down baits. When throwing spinnerbaits, always try to 'bump the stump' meaning weeds, docks, rocks, stumps. Anything that makes the bait do something erratic which will trigger the bass. Same goes for crankbaits. Always try to choose one that run a couple feet deeper than the depth you are fishing and bump the bottom. Your strike ratio will go up noticeably when you do this. Use the spinnerbaits around snags and the cranks around more open water (for obvious reasons = treble hooks snag weeds).But, most of the time the fish are not actively roaming or chasing and you will need to slow down and drop a worm in front of their face. I will say that if you can get proficient = confident fishing spinnerbaits and crankbaits, AND jigs and worms, you'll be just as 'dangerous' on the water as Rick Clunn.

I loved reading your last post. You want to learn more and you are discovering what any angler, novice or pro seeks to know...will this lure on the end of my line make the fish bite. The last piece of advice I can give you as someone who has a basement full of lures that never get wet anymore is KISS...Keep It Simple. Learn how to fish those 4 types of baits (though not necessarily those 4 I listed) well and you will be way ahead of the game we all play, catching more and bigger bass. Good luck and have fun.

Jim

[surfer]

I received the G. Loomis SJR842S IMX about two weeks ago.  The MH is amazingly stiff for its weight.  I haven't been able to catch anything over 1.5 # on it yet so I haven't met a decent fight yet.  The first few minutes I was using it a bream was tugging on the tail of my worm and it was so loud in my hand compared to anything I had felt before.  Really nice.

I noticed the third eyelet form the tip (counting the tip) was 1/8 inch lower than the tip two and lower than the fourth.  These seamed to break the smooth curve relation between all the eyelets.  I Called Reed's and they confirmed it was a problem, but said I needed to ship it back to them if they were to help me.  I let them know I wasn't interested in paying for shipping and waiting longer and that they should ship me another and let me fish with the misaligned rod that was still much better than any of my other rods.  They said they couldn't.  Loomis on the other hand said no problem and included a pre paid shipping label with the second new rod.  They trusted me with one of their rods without collateral.

The second rod arrives with the same eyelet alignment.  What?  Two in a row?  Is this part of the design?  I talked with Loomis and their customer service person didn't know any better than I did so I thanked her for the return shipping label and attempt to satisfy and returned the second rod unused.  If I find out in the future that the third eyelet is misaligned it will still fall under a defect and be replaced for shipping.  That's some good customer service.

Is an eyelet being out of align vertically by 1/8 normal for a $200+ rod?  I know 1/8 sound small, but the eye opening is only 1/4 so that's half its own width.

Another new rod.

Now out of coincidence I broke my oldest and first rod right after I received the Loomis.  Darn subconscious bate monkey broke it on purpose in my opinion.  So I am in the market for another rod.  I take a list of rods with me to BPS to so I can see, touch, feel.  I collected the list from everyone's comments on here.  I am looking for a 7ft M Fast spinning rod.  The list is

Falcon Cara

Falcon Lowrider

Shimano Crucial

Fenwick Techna

St Croix Avid

St Croix Premier

G Loomis

BPS had only the St Coix Premier, Shimano Crucial, and Loomis that fit the requirements.  So comparing these and prices I got the Crucial.  

I am as pleased with it as I am the Loomis I got.  My novice hands can't tell which rod is actually better, but I do know I don't need to buy any rods for a few years.  Hopefully by then I will have a more discerning hand.  I think the Crucial is a little more sensitive, but I attribute that the M vs MH.

The Crucial has IM9 stamped on the side.  I remember reading a thread saying the sweet spot for modulus was closer to IM6.  Am I looking at any problems here?

Caught 9 under 2# yesterday in the three hours before sunset.  Good times.

Thanks again everyone for your rod recommendations and everything else I have been able to read about.  My fishing is improving.

[Taliesin]

Anyway, stick with your decision and don't buy any tackle based on what someone else uses or says works for them. Only after you gain experience (which really means spend lots more money on tackle) will you figure what equipment works best for you.

Jim

I have to follow your advice here too. For the most part I am a weekend angler and while my gear gets occassional upgrades, my tackle would be considered substandard by almost everyone here.

I am one of those that find Ugly Stiks perfect for my needs (especially the Ugly Stik Lite Pro).

Many people say they are too heavy for constant use, but the only time I have found that to be a problem is when I spent several hours practicing with my 15' Ugly Stik I use for catfishing (practicing for accuracy and distance, I need to reach 100+ yards for bank-fishing in a non-boating area).

Another comment was a lack of sensitivity, but I have never had a problem with that either. I catch those pesky "perch" on my plastic worms all the time. I feel them fine.

I will admit that my spinning reels have braid on them and this does increase the sensitivity on those.

Finally, cost is a factor. While it would cost me $250 to upgrade my 6 bass fishing rods to an Ugly Stik Lite Pro (2 of them already are), it would cost me at least $1250 to upgrade to the G. Loomis or equivelant.

I grew up using equipment that was well below the standard of an Ugly Stik, so that was an upgrade for me.

I won't say they are the best rod out there, I really don't believe that. I will say that I believe they are one of the best rods for the price. But I will stress that that is my belief and only for MY requirements.

I will also say that if I had the extra $5000 all of my 18 rods and reels would get an upgrade.

[ABC123]

I noticed the third eyelet form the tip (counting the tip) was 1/8 inch lower than the tip two and lower than the fourth. These seamed to break the smooth curve relation between all the eyelets. I Called Reed's and they confirmed it was a problem, but said I needed to ship it back to them if they were to help me.

It is normal. It has to do with the action of the rod, and the taper of the blank, among other things. It's one of the subtle differences between a $50 rod, and a $250 rod. If you look closely, you might find other guides looking like they are out of alignment too, depending on the rod blank.