Fluorocarbon Showdown Sequel (New TT Test Results)

[PaparockArk]

TackleTour Fluorocarbon Showdown had a very interesting article on Fluorocarbon lines. One intersting thing in the conclusions was that "for now, realize that we were able to validate some myths (water absorption, abrasion resistance) debunk others (low stretch), and at least, call to question the claims of still more (poor knot strength) when compared against a popular and widely used monofilament like Berkley's Trilene XL."

The tests they ran showed "The one thing we can clearly state is, all the fluorocarbon lines we tested have either the same, or in some cases, more stretch than our baseline Trilene XL."

Here are the brands they tested:

Complete Article here:http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbontestpg5.html

Further tests look most interesting to prove or disprove commonly held views about fluorocarbon lines. How have these results related to members experience in the field with theses listed products? I hope members will reply to show their experience with these same products. I just bought some Youzuri H2O to test on Bull Shoals to see how it performs and will post on it later.

[Guest avid]

I think the major finding of their excellent report was that BPS flouro is among the best you can buy.  Lines costing much more performed worse, or marginally better in some areas.

I have since bought the XPS flouro in 8 lb and 14# and it is excellent.

[PaparockArk]

I think the major finding of their excellent report was that BPS flouro is among the best you can buy. Lines costing much more performed worse, or marginally better in some areas.

I have since bought the XPS flouro in 8 lb and 14# and it is excellent.

Yes, I like the Bass Pro XPS also. I purchased some Youzuri H2O because here on Bull Shoals with the water so clear but with a slight green tint green tint mono has always worked better and at times the fish seem to shy from some flouro. It may be they are picking up some type of contrast difference, but I am not sure. Youzuri H20 comes in a geen tint that I thought I would try alongside the clear to see if the green tint would make a positive difference or not. You never know until the fish tell you their opinion because the fish around here are very educated don't you know.

[RoLo]

When it comes to fluorocarbon, I'd really like to see a showdown based on the main weakness of fluorocarbon.

I use spinning tackle, and the wiry behavior of fluorocarbon alone prevents me from using that line material.

Oddly, I've never seen a fluorocarbon shootout that compares the "manageability" (suppleness) of each brand.

BTW: That's one kool avatar (red fox?).

Roger

[PaparockArk]

When it comes to fluorocarbon, I'd really like to see a showdown based on the main weakness of fluorocarbon.

I use spinning tackle, and the wiry behavior of fluorocarbon alone prevents me from using that line material.

Oddly, I've never seen a fluorocarbon shootout that compares the "manageability" (suppleness) of each brand.

BTW: That's one kool avatar (red fox?).

Roger

Winged Cat/Fox Gauardian.

TackleTours says they are going to test fluorocarbon lines of the major brands for handling and more in future tests so we will just have to see what comes out. I found the strecth results intersting since everyone had for so long been saying how flurocarbon had little to no strecth and then to find they were pretty much equal to mono. I like it when someone puts claims and actual products to real world tests to get a side by side comparison.

[dodgeguy]

i had been telling you guys for a year and a half prior to that that flouro has as much stretch.it does however transmit vibration far better than mono.i'm using seguar invizx right now and there is a major difference in sensitivity.previous to using this line i hated flouro because of managability issues.right now i have 10 lb test on a 40 size spinning reel with no line issues.all you guys who dislike flouro should give the seguar invizx a shot.

[Jeff H]

I suppose I should try flouro sometime but I'm really comfortable with my Berkley XT.  I have a couple rods rigged with Power Pro, one of which I only use as a search rod when I want to feel out deep features on a structure with a football jig.  Otherwise I've never felt the need to change my system and am for the most part happy with the XT for at least 70-80% of my fishing.

I'll look into the Seguar Invisx and the BPS XPS Flouro and try it sometime this summer.

[PaparockArk]

Dodgeguy, what is your opinion and experience about the visibility issue in ultraclear water fishing with fluorocarbon? I used fluoro in saltwater with good sucess but here is ultraclear freshwater some are telling me that the clear version fluoro on bluebird days can cause it to shine in the water due to contrast and can cause the fish in my lake to become line shy. Bull Shoals can have 20 foot clarity with a slight green tint. That is my reasoning for purchasing the new green tint Youzuri H2O. I have not been able to try it yet to test it sided by side with the clear Seagar. Returning to my roots so to speak after so many years with so many advances in technonogy it is like learning to fish freshwater as a beginner in many ways. Some things I hear turn out to be true and good advise and others things turn out to just be false information put out by the tackle makers and passed on by individuals as fact like always. Trial and error tells the tail but can be expensive especially with the prices of some tackle now days. Sorry I missed your posts on fluoro strecth for instance. If you have any more observations please pass them on again even if you have done so before.

[FishTank]

I have tried Berkley Transition and Seaguar Carbon Pro and both of them were the worst lines I had ever used.  I have been reading about Seaguar Invisx and Gamma and I think I will give it one more try but if I have no success, they will be the last fluorocarbons I'll try.

As far as the ones I have used, both of them broke easily, not strength was OK, and both had more memory than any other line I have tried.  The memory was so bad on the Carbon Pro that it cut my casting distance in half; you could actually hear the line hit the guides when you cast.  One other thing, they both streched like a Slinky on a hook set.

I am starting to think, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[acar555]

I agree with Dodgeguy about the Seaguar Invisx it handels very well.  I have been using 6 and 8 lb. on a 20 size reel with great results.  The whole advantage to Flouro was that it was supposed to have the same refractive properties of water so light would pass thur it exactly as it does thru water.  I don't know if I really buy into the whole fish being line shy theory.  I have caught plenty of smallmouth bass out of very clear water (20ft. +) with braided line even out fishing others in my boat using mono and flouro.  But I do believe if the angler believes it makes a difference, the confidence in that it does, will give them better results.

[dodgeguy]

Dodgeguy, what is your opinion and experience about the visibility issue in ultraclear water fishing with fluorocarbon? I used fluoro in saltwater with good sucess but here is ultraclear freshwater some are telling me that the clear version fluoro on bluebird days can cause it to shine in the water due to contrast and can cause the fish in my lake to become line shy. Bull Shoals can have 20 foot clarity with a slight green tint. That is my reasoning for purchasing the new green tint Youzuri H2O. I have not been able to try it yet to test it sided by side with the clear Seagar. Returning to my roots so to speak after so many years with so many advances in technonogy it is like learning to fish freshwater as a beginner in many ways. Some things I hear turn out to be true and good advise and others things turn out to just be false information put out by the tackle makers and passed on by individuals as fact like always. Trial and error tells the tail but can be expensive especially with the prices of some tackle now days. Sorry I missed your posts on fluoro strecth for instance. If you have any more observations please pass them on again even if you have done so before.

my opinion is not formed as yet.that is why i am sticking with flouro for a full season to form a intelligent opinion.i know i caught 2 times as many fish with cajun red cast as i did with straight braid from one season to the next.i'm not sure if visibilty had anything to do with it.

[Triton_Mike]

I'm gonna disagree with the stretch results primarily because fluorocarbon polyvinylidene flouride...PVDF for short is a closed cellular flouropolymer.  Meaning it does not absorb water.  Nylon monofilament absorbs water. Thats why your nlyon lines doesn't last as long as fluorocarbon lines do hence they stretch more.  Once you add water into the equation the outcome is different.  If you have been fishing a pure 100% fluorocarbon for any lenght of time there will be no doubt which one is more sensative.  It's night and day, apples and oranges ie it's not even a disputable fact.  Technically the lines with higher abrasion resistance handles more poorly.  So to get to one extreme you have to give up another extreme.  Most like a middle ground.

Mike

[links_man2]

I read some where that Fluorocarbon does stretch as much as mono, but that once stretched it does not go back to the original length like mono. I have not tested to see if this is the case, but it would explain why Fluoro would be more sensitive than mono.

[dodgeguy]

i have also heard that if you stretch them out after each use it keeps them more manageable.

[Guest avid]

I found the strecth results intersting since everyone had for so long been saying how flurocarbon had little to no strecth and then to find they were pretty much equal to mono. I like it when someone puts claims and actual products to real world tests to get a side by side comparison.

The claims of low stretch continue.  The TT test is the second I have seen that soundly disproves the low stretch contention but the manufacturers and their pro endorsers continue to perpetuate this myth.

Brad was very eloquent in his scientific reasoning for why F/C SHOULDN'T stretch.

Of course it complelety ignores the actual test results demonstrating that in reality it does, and quite a bit.

Moral:  When the manufacturers make a claim.  It is always the truth  

[Cephkiller]

I'm leaving the stretch thing alone for now until some hard evidence comes my way. I will say two things, though:

1) I've noticed that my clear fluoro is very visible in ultra clear water so I continue using it mainly for its sensitivity. I will try some green as soon as I run out of the clear.

2) The sensitivity is vastly superior to mono but this is completely independent of stretch. Think of it this way. If you hold a rubber band a steel tension spring of equal length and equal stretch and I tap the end of each with a hammer you will feel the tap much stronger in the hand holding the tension spring. This is because of the spring's greater density and hardness and thus, its greater conductance of vibration. That is why fluoro is so much more sensitive than mono.

[captbob]

I notice Sufix invisaline is missing from your chart. It's the best for abrasion resistance, rocks, branches, dock pilings etc. I put the whole 30M spool on top of braid for backing.

 For clear water a German line called Tectan beats the Fluorocarbons, could never understand why. But it's got no abrasion resistance, nice & supple for casting tho.

 Keep both on separate rigs and switch off. Have found one would catch when the other woulden't, with same bait on same piece of water.

 Every day is different, clear, cloudy, sky and water, but no day is "Bad".Switch and experiment you never know, don't beat a dead horse even if it was a top producer in "similar" conditions.

[sal669]

There was an article (I think In In-Fisherman) that was addressing the isue of Fluorocarbon in clear water on bright days and they said that fluoro acts similar to "fiberoptic" cables that handle information transmission using light. So the line captures the sunlight and sends it in the water, making the fluoro line look like a long neon tube streching from the surface of the water to your lure/bait.

This issue is easily eliminated if you cut the line and retie it like you would have a leader. The light would travel in this case only to the knot. The leader would not be seen by the fish.

If that is true, why not use braid or mono and a 2-6 ft fluoro leader ??? That's what I'm doing for a long time now, but not because of this finding. Because of managebility and cost efectiveness.

As for the Tectan Premium line, I'm using it on 2 spinning reels and one baitcaster for about 3 years now,and I like it a lot. It is slowly replacing P-Line on my reels ( I still have a couple spools of P-Line which I will use, but I don't think I'll buy more).You have to chose the line(Tectan) based on line diameter, not lb rating. That's the European standard( and I think they use the same sistem in Asia too, but I'm not sure). Anyhow, lb rating is not accurate, so I compare diameters on the lines I buy.

I would just add that I didn't noticed Tectan to be less abrasion resistent than other lines with the same diameter.

Hope it helps...

[senile1]

I'm leaving the stretch thing alone for now until some hard evidence comes my way.  I will say two things, though:

1)  I've noticed that my clear fluoro is very visible in ultra clear water so I continue using it mainly for its sensitivity.  I will try some green as soon as I run out of the clear.

2)  The sensitivity is vastly superior to mono but this is completely independent of stretch.  Think of it this way.  If you hold a rubber band a steel tension spring of equal length and equal stretch and I tap the end of each with a hammer you will feel the tap much stronger in the hand holding the tension spring.  This is because of the spring's greater density and hardness and thus, its greater conductance of vibration.  That is why fluoro is so much more sensitive than mono.

Is this study not hard evidence?  This isn't the first study that I've heard about that demonstrates fluoro stretches quite a bit.  Two or three months ago, Bassmaster magazine had an article that stated that fluoro stretches like mono as well.  I agree that I can feel more with fluoro than I can with mono, but I can't deny what these studies show.  

[Cephkiller]

Is this study not hard evidence?

This is only anecdotal evidence.  See the quote from Tackletour below.

Stretch: Surprisingly, a biproduct of our tensile test was our ability to watch the stretch in each of our line samples before they broke. We stopped short of collecting data on this observation due to a number of questionable variables

Also, the Tackletour test was done with dry lines.  I am merely saying that perhaps fluoro does stretch less when wet.  Perhaps it stretches just as much or more, but this test does not prove it either way.  I am willing to accept the results regardless because to me, it feels like it stretches less and that is good enough.

[PaparockArk]

TackleTour's Fluorocarbon Showdown Sequel!! Is out!!

Quotes below are excerpts from the full article that can be found at http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2.html

FC Stretch Test Results: Products in red displayed the most stretch, while products in black showed the least. Some stretched even more after soaking for various lengths of time (color key at top of chart)

""Conclusions from our STRECTH and STRAIN TEST? Compared against our baseline product, Trilene XL, eight of our fourteen lines showed overall stretch results equal to or greater than this baseline when dry. Five of these eight were still worse than the Trilene XL even after we soaked the XL for 3 hours. That's a little over a third of the lines that fared worse than the our baseline mono. Even then, aside from a couple of products, the difference in stretch totals from this baseline was not very significant, and the surprise permanent deformation ( or strain ) results in the fluorocarbon is a bit disturbing. Certainly in this category, the overall performance of our FC lines was a disappointment."

For the full report on the lines tested click http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2.html

NEXT TEST WAS VISIBILITY

"Conclusions from our visibility tests? We'd say largely inconclusive. For one, it's difficult to determine if what we see is the same as what a fish can see. From our photographs, it would certainly appear that some of the lines are difficult to find, but then again, so is the Berkley Trilene XL! What's more, how important is line visibility over, say, line diameter? The larger the diameter of your line, the greater disturbance it will create in the water and the easier it will be for a fish to sense this disturbance through its lateral line. In that case, visibility is really a moot point. Once again, too many variables to consider to truly develop a viable conclusion."

"Conclusion: Have we burst the fluorocarbon bubble? Perhaps so, perhaps not. What we have shown for certain is that fluorocarbon isn't perfect, but then again, what fishing line, or product is? More importantly, we've shown not all fluorocarbon lines are created equal. Some, like the Seaguar Invisx actually have very good knot strength, but this same line has terrible stretch performance. Others, like Sunline Shooter FC is great against stretch, but faired poorly in our knot strength test. Our invisibility tests were inconclusive and the strain results were troubling. We say enough with the lab. It's time to take these tests to the next level and experience both the good and the bad of fluorocarbon on the water to see what the true redeeming qualities of these individual products might be. Certainly, not all fluorocarbons are created equal, but we're now prepared to go out and discover which versions, if any, are worth the expense."

[RoLo]

Perhaps I'm turning to the next page, but I view these fluorocarbon studies as yet another vote for polyethylene braid.

The reason I personally would never use fluorocarbon line is its lack of manageability and wiry behavior (I use spinning gear).

Now we are being told that the stretch-resistance of fluorocarbon is not clearly superior to nylon!

Well, that only leaves "visibility", and the importance of line visibility is debatable at best (fine-diameter is a whole other matter).

It strikes me very odd that fishermen who think nothing of tossing a plug with Three Gaudy Treble Hooks

would anguish over line-visibility :-/ :

Roger

[Lucky Craft Man]

When I first heard how good Flouro was supposed to be, I put it on everything (except for a few rods that have my braid).  Then over time I strarted to go to hybrid and copoly lines, because I didn't see the so called advantage (or cost justification) of the flouro.  Now, I only use flouro on my jerkbait rod.  The only advantage flouro has from my experience is that it sinks (which helps my suspending jerkbaits get a little deeper).  I also found out through my experience that XPS Flouro performed the best for me (which the test seems to confirm).  I wonder how this research will hurt the Flouro fishing line business?  It will be interesting to see.

[islandbass]

I agree with Dodgeguy about the Seaguar Invisx it handels very well. I have been using 6 and 8 lb. on a 20 size reel with great results. The whole advantage to Flouro was that it was supposed to have the same refractive properties of water so light would pass thur it exactly as it does thru water. I don't know if I really buy into the whole fish being line shy theory. I have caught plenty of smallmouth bass out of very clear water (20ft. +) with braided line even out fishing others in my boat using mono and flouro. But I do believe if the angler believes it makes a difference, the confidence in that it does, will give them better results.

I would second this. I like Invizx because it acts like mono. According to the latest test at TT which I jest read a few minutes ago, Invizx while it might be poor in some of the test, touted the best knot stregth retention.

After fishing both FC and mono at 6# test. I have observed a marked increase in strikes in clear water.  Heck, it could be just darned luck.

[dodgeguy]

that's why i'm giving it a whole season to make up my mind.