Santee Lake. I think they found the body.

[TnRiver46]

19 minutes ago, JHoss said:

I had the opposite experience a couple years ago. Was fishing from the kayak and had my inflatable stowed in the front hatch. Got stopped by DWR who asked if I had a PFD. I opened the hatch and showed them my inflatable and they were good with that. Made no mention of needing it to be on. 

 

 

He was just ready for lunch and didn’t look too closely 

[casts_by_fly]

3 hours ago, JHoss said:

I did plenty of googling before posting. Even in the link you provided the only thing that remotely aligns with what you're saying is, "Often approved only when worn." Nowhere can I find any wording that the must be worn at all times.

 

 

https://dwr.virginia.gov/equipment-regulations/#:~:text=The operator%2C each rider%2C and,Except non-motorized vessels.

Seeing as USCG seems to give the final say to the states, I looked at my state, Virginia. Nowhere does it state that an inflatable must be worn. In fact, they have a section about inflatables: 

 

A Special Note about Inflatable Life Jackets

Inflatable life jackets are lightweight, comfortable to wear and take up about one-tenth the storage room of conventional foam-filled life jackets. Most are USCG approved only for persons 16 years of age and older who are not engaged in whitewater or skiing activities or riding on PWC. They are a great choice for adults on the water!

 

 

 

 

 

Class 5 PFDs are approved by the coast guard for special activities for which each has its own rules and requirements.  The manufacturer is required to tag each PFD with the activities approved and the conditions for use.  See two manufacturer examples below.  Mustang just says 'most must be worn at all times to comply with the label', presumably because they make a wide range of class 5s and wanted to be more general on that information page.  NRS is specific on that product page that it must be worn to comply.  I have the bass pro version and the label clearly states "must be worn to comply with USCG regulations".

 

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/CG-ENG-4/PFDSel/

https://www.boatus.org/life-jackets/types

 

https://mustangsurvival.com/pages/pfd-classifications

https://www.nrs.com/nrs-matik-inflatable-pfd/pltz

[JHoss]

20 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

 

Class 5 PFDs are approved by the coast guard for special activities for which each has its own rules and requirements.  The manufacturer is required to tag each PFD with the activities approved and the conditions for use.  See two manufacturer examples below.  Mustang just says 'most must be worn at all times to comply with the label', presumably because they make a wide range of class 5s and wanted to be more general on that information page.  NRS is specific on that product page that it must be worn to comply.  I have the bass pro version and the label clearly states "must be worn to comply with USCG regulations".

 

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/CG-ENG-4/PFDSel/

https://www.boatus.org/life-jackets/types

 

https://mustangsurvival.com/pages/pfd-classifications

https://www.nrs.com/nrs-matik-inflatable-pfd/pltz

Interesting. This is the closest I've seen to a government agency having some sort of rule or law on them. I have one of the Onyx vests- I guess I need to read the label when I get home today. 

 

 

 

[VolFan]

I don’t understand the thought of buying an inflatable to stow it. If you’re just going for compliance get a cheaper foam vest. Neither helps you when stowed.

[T.J.]

New Jersey states type V must be worn at all times underway. See top of page 15 Type V Hybrid. 

 

https://www.nj.gov/njsp/info/pdf/marine/021606-boating-safety-manual.pdf

[JHoss]

17 hours ago, VolFan said:

I don’t understand the thought of buying an inflatable to stow it. If you’re just going for compliance get a cheaper foam vest. Neither helps you when stowed.

They take up significantly less space, which is important on a kayak or jon boat. 

 

 

[Darth-Baiter]

19 minutes ago, JHoss said:

They take up significantly less space, which is important on a kayak or jon boat. 

 

 

i think that is the point of @VolFan.  why go thru the trouble of buying one and then stowing it?  which is kinda how the poor soul found out that fateful day (in the story)...it shouldnt be stowed.  it should be worn which makes the stowabiltiy a moot point.  

 

but your point is perfect.  i put mine in luggage and took it to mexico.  i backed out the CO canister.  zero issues.   it did stow perfectly with my baits and stuff. 

[JHoss]

Growing up fishing the saltwater, lifejackets were there in case the boat was going down. You'd go get them from wherever they were stowed in the event that your boat was sinking. No one ever put a lifejacket on unless there was an active emergency requiring it. I really don't get the freshwater obsession with wearing them. The only time I can see it really helping an able bodied adult is if you're running a boat at 50+ mph- it's worth it in case you get thrown and knocked out. But on a kayak or boat not exceeding 40... why? When I did kayak tournaments, I found them to be more of a hazard than an aide because of how much hotter you get wearing them. I always felt like the odds of me getting a heat stroke from wearing one were far greater than the odds of a me getting knocked unconscious, falling over, and drowning. In my jon boat or skiff that max out shy of 30, I have no worries about being knocked out from the impact with water if I fell out. The kill switch would kill the engine if I fell over and then I'd just swim the short distance to wear the boat settled.

 

I really don't get why there needs to be a law to wear them for grown ups or why I, as boat owner and captain, can't choose to go out by myself without one on board. The only person who could get harmed from those choices is myself. It's not like a seatbelt where me not wearing one could cause my body to become a danger to anyone else in the vehicle. Let people make their own choices and live with the consequences of their actions. 

 

[fish'n Jim]

Good thread, thanks.   Not an easy lakes to navigate.

I gave up on auto-inflatable when mine got wet in the boat under the cover and inflated on it's own in the garage.   Try stuffing that balloon back in the vest.   Great if you never need it.   I don't trust me pulling the cord flying through the air.   Always have your kill switch secured to you when running.   My first year or so competing, early days post kill switch(KS) intro/req'd, one of the boats hit a stump or something both competitors got ejected and KS not attached, motor keeps running, steering flops over, and makes a circle.   One guy got run over and prop hit his shoulder.   It was req'd then, but early compliance wasn't great, but much so after.   I'm not sure today with the hydraulic steering but guess, if the object didn't deflect the lower unit, it'll go in a straight line and crash somewhere.   You can take your hands off the wheel with hyd vs the old cable style couldn't for long due to motor torq.

I respectfully ask, please, some of the kayakers to use one of those high vis flags so we can see you when it's rough and minimize travel in the channel (cut across quickly and go parallel) where boats are running, if you can.   Lots of sky boats, pontoons, etc. too.   It's not a matter of right away if you get run over because you weren't seen...   I've run up on a few, mostly the camo/dark variety that I didn't see, and had to take evasive.   Bright colors great.   And I'm sure you don't appreciate a boat wake coming on you unexpectedly.   Traveling into the sun can also be treacherous due to glare, if it's flat out.   Good polarized glasses a must.

I also water test out any new vest I buy so I know what to expect should I fall out.   I also mark the purchase date inside, so I know when it's time for a new one.   That foam degrades out in the sun.  You won't know if you float or sink, if its old.   I use a mesh vest style in the summer and it's more comfortable than the full vest type - which I use in winter.

[Darth-Baiter]

one guy i fish with doesnt even own a PFD.  kayak dude.  

 

he does however put cute little foam coozzies on his rods so they dont sink.  he says, "accidents happen, you never know.."

 

i bite my tongue, but the irony is thick..and obvious.   so funny.  if his gear was better quality, i am grabbing a few combos...ahhahah..jk.

[casts_by_fly]

3 hours ago, fish'n Jim said:

Good thread, thanks.   Not an easy lakes to navigate.

I gave up on auto-inflatable when mine got wet in the boat under the cover and inflated on it's own in the garage.   Try stuffing that balloon back in the vest.   Great if you never need it.   I don't trust me pulling the cord flying through the air.   Always have your kill switch secured to you when running.   My first year or so competing, early days post kill switch(KS) intro/req'd, one of the boats hit a stump or something both competitors got ejected and KS not attached, motor keeps running, steering flops over, and makes a circle.   One guy got run over and prop hit his shoulder.   It was req'd then, but early compliance wasn't great, but much so after.   I'm not sure today with the hydraulic steering but guess, if the object didn't deflect the lower unit, it'll go in a straight line and crash somewhere.   You can take your hands off the wheel with hyd vs the old cable style couldn't for long due to motor torq.

I respectfully ask, please, some of the kayakers to use one of those high vis flags so we can see you when it's rough and minimize travel in the channel (cut across quickly and go parallel) where boats are running, if you can.   Lots of sky boats, pontoons, etc. too.   It's not a matter of right away if you get run over because you weren't seen...   I've run up on a few, mostly the camo/dark variety that I didn't see, and had to take evasive.   Bright colors great.   And I'm sure you don't appreciate a boat wake coming on you unexpectedly.   Traveling into the sun can also be treacherous due to glare, if it's flat out.   Good polarized glasses a must.

I also water test out any new vest I buy so I know what to expect should I fall out.   I also mark the purchase date inside, so I know when it's time for a new one.   That foam degrades out in the sun.  You won't know if you float or sink, if its old.   I use a mesh vest style in the summer and it's more comfortable than the full vest type - which I use in winter.

 

Part of the compliance part that allows a person to own an auto inflate and have it uscg approved is that you have to inflate it (manually is fine) and rearm it per the manufacturers spec (mine is annually). So I hear you on restuffing it, but it’s not unachievable. 

[VolFan]

I think my point was - if you’re going to spend the money to buy an auto-inflate, the string bikini of self-preservation, why would you store that instead of just comfortably wearing it?

As far as boat speed or water having anything to do with it, that’s a personal choice, but we are in a thread where it was a kayaker who drowned. So it even happens (and more regularly than it should) at no speed. 

[JHoss]

13 hours ago, VolFan said:

I think my point was - if you’re going to spend the money to buy an auto-inflate, the string bikini of self-preservation, why would you store that instead of just comfortably wearing it?

As far as boat speed or water having anything to do with it, that’s a personal choice, but we are in a thread where it was a kayaker who drowned. So it even happens (and more regularly than it should) at no speed. 

1) String bikini of self-preservation is hilarious.

2) No life vest is more comfortable than the most comfortable vest made.

3) Agreed it should be a personal choice. That's the point I was trying to make with my last response.

4) I'd be curious if there was some other sort of medical condition that ultimately caused this persons demise vs a straight up drowning.

[TOXIC]

Safety is a personal thing and I compare it to seatbelt laws and helmet laws.  Some are mandated and some are optional. 

[slowworm]

32 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

Safety is a personal thing and I compare it to seatbelt laws and helmet laws.  Some are mandated and some are optional. 

I agree, but only so far.  In an accident involving a vehicle the victim or body is always associated with the scene of the crash.  Recovering a body can be much less hazardous than recovering an injured victim.  Because if they are dead then the recovery team can take the time to shore up hazards etc.

 

The inverse is true in drowning cases.  Searches for sunken bodies can be extremely hazardous, and the lives of searchers have been lost.  Plucking a dead body buoyed up by a PFD is pretty safe.  And that assumes a fatal stroke/heart-attack/hypothermia type thing, rather than plucking a cold, exhausted boater out.

 

Frankly I think we should only ever search for boaters who go missing on the surface.  If you drown and sink, just hope you bloat and float to give the family the closure they want.