NPFL DQ

[GReb]

Kind of like the steroid era in baseball. They’re all doing the same thing, some just get caught 

[JHoss]

1 hour ago, Pumpkin Lizard said:

It's just amazing that the narrative went from "Scott Martin doesn't even need inside info on his home lake" to "Scott Martin is a scumbag" so easily and with basically just rumors.

That's part of what irks me. I was one of the one's who said what a class act Scott was for self reporting and how he handled it. But if I'd known the story coming from Scott and BASS wasn't true, I certainly wouldn't have supported the guy in this case. To me, it seems like they're trying to protect the image of one of their golden boys. And that comes at the sake of their credibility. It makes me question what else they've covered up for the good of their brand. 

 

 

 

All of BASS's problems here go away with one of two simple changes:

1) Punish Jaden Parrish the same way they punished Herren and Martin.

OR

2) Be more transparent about what happened. Tell us why Parrish's violation was minor enough to warrant a fine when he top 10'd the event while Herren got DQ'd when he finished 44th and didn't even go near the area he was alleged to have gotten illegal info about. Tell us that Scott self reported after he learned a video was floating around outing him. 

 

Just my opinion. I'll still watch the same amount of BASS coverage this year because I want to see the best anglers compete, but I wouldn't be surprised to see BASS lose its grip on the top tournament trail over the next few years. 

43 minutes ago, GReb said:

Kind of like the steroid era in baseball. They’re all doing the same thing, some just get caught 

Great analogy. And the only people who get hurt by it are the honest ones. 

[Texas Flood]

BASS doesnt need to be transparent to the public. Deal with it in house and move on.

[Glenn]

3 hours ago, JHoss said:

Wouldn't the more posts and activity you have on here, be better for you?

That's assuming anything goes here, which is not the case.  This site is about the fun and enjoyment of the sport.  Topics like this drag it down, especially when it becomes a recurring theme.

 

If you like drama, there are several social channels that already offer that.  Go knock yourself out.  But leave the arguing, click bait, and controversies behind when you come back here.

 

Thanks!

Glenn

[Pumpkin Lizard]

2 hours ago, JHoss said:

That's part of what irks me. I was one of the one's who said what a class act Scott was for self reporting and how he handled it. But if I'd known the story coming from Scott and BASS wasn't true, I certainly wouldn't have supported the guy in this case. To me, it seems like they're trying to protect the image of one of their golden boys. And that comes at the sake of their credibility. It makes me question what else they've covered up for the good of their brand. 

 

 

 

All of BASS's problems here go away with one of two simple changes:

1) Punish Jaden Parrish the same way they punished Herren and Martin.

OR

2) Be more transparent about what happened. Tell us why Parrish's violation was minor enough to warrant a fine when he top 10'd the event while Herren got DQ'd when he finished 44th and didn't even go near the area he was alleged to have gotten illegal info about. Tell us that Scott self reported after he learned a video was floating around outing him. 

 

Just my opinion. I'll still watch the same amount of BASS coverage this year because I want to see the best anglers compete, but I wouldn't be surprised to see BASS lose its grip on the top tournament trail over the next few years. 

Great analogy. And the only people who get hurt by it are the honest ones. 

Count me as someone who doesn’t care if they are transparent. 

 

Scott Martin is kind of mid as a competitive angler. I don’t see him as a golden boy.

 

Also the rumors could be BS or not even what they are portrayed to be. 
 

 

 

[JHoss]

17 hours ago, Texas Flood said:

BASS doesnt need to be transparent to the public. Deal with it in house and move on.

Should they be transparent to their anglers and their members? I say yes. If I fished the Open on Rayburn and missed out on money because a guy in the top 10 violated the no info rule and only received a fine, I'd sure want to know the details an the why. Some people will go to another organization if they continue to disagree with the way BASS is handling things. Not everyone will share that mentality, but if a decent percentage of their anglers get fed up with it and leave, BASS would crumble. 

 

15 hours ago, Pumpkin Lizard said:

Scott Martin is kind of mid as a competitive angler. I don’t see him as a golden boy.

 

Also the rumors could be BS or not even what they are portrayed to be. 

I don't disagree that Scott is nothing special in that field of anglers, but he is Roland Martin's son, which is why I'd consider him a golden boy of sorts. He was groomed for this and set up for success by his dad. He's got a substantial following with his TV shows and what not and is making far more from those and sponsors than he is from winnings. I think it's safe to say that he helps BASS more than being on the Elites helps him. 

 

As far as the rumors, the only way to nip that in the bud is to officially address them. Otherwise, we're just waiting on the storm to pass and people to forget.

[Pumpkin Lizard]

1 minute ago, JHoss said:

Should they be transparent to their anglers and their members? I say yes. If I fished the Open on Rayburn and missed out on money because a guy in the top 10 violated the no info rule and only received a fine, I'd sure want to know the details an the why. Some people will go to another organization if they continue to disagree with the way BASS is handling things. Not everyone will share that mentality, but if a decent percentage of their anglers get fed up with it and leave, BASS would crumble. 

 

I don't disagree that Scott is nothing special in that field of anglers, but he is Roland Martin's son, which is why I'd consider him a golden boy of sorts. He was groomed for this and set up for success by his dad. He's got a substantial following with his TV shows and what not and is making far more from those and sponsors than he is from winnings. I think it's safe to say that he helps BASS more than being on the Elites helps him. 

 

As far as the rumors, the only way to nip that in the bud is to officially address them. Otherwise, we're just waiting on the storm to pass and people to forget.

Amongst the competitors sure.

 

I just listened to portions of the two latest Mercers. I can never get through the whole things.

 

Feider said that he was happy that BASS was finally cracking down on the cheaters. From the sounds of it I bet if you took an anonymous poll of the anglers these penalties are popular. Feider also said that Martin has been cheating for 30 years and that he can think of 10 cheaters in the Elites off the top of his head.

 

The other episode with Palaniuk. Herren failed 4 successive polygraphs. Passed the 5th after opening up about speaking with two different individuals. That doesn’t sound so innocent.

 

Martin, he simply said that there was more to it and left it at that.

 

The rule is very old and was made and requested by pro anglers. They don’t want outcomes affected by “information”.

[Texas Flood]

41 minutes ago, JHoss said:

Should they be transparent to their anglers and their members? I say yes. If I fished the Open on Rayburn and missed out on money because a guy in the top 10 violated the no info rule and only received a fine, I'd sure want to know the details an the why. Some people will go to another organization if they continue to disagree with the way BASS is handling things. Not everyone will share that mentality, but if a decent percentage of their anglers get fed up with it and leave, BASS would crumble. 

 

 

Anglers, yes. Members who get a monthly magazine, no.

 

 

Again, keep it in house and move on.

[JHoss]

1 hour ago, Pumpkin Lizard said:

I just listened to portions of the two latest Mercers. I can never get through the whole things.

 

Feider said that he was happy that BASS was finally cracking down on the cheaters. From the sounds of it I bet if you took an anonymous poll of the anglers these penalties are popular. Feider also said that Martin has been cheating for 30 years and that he can think of 10 cheaters in the Elites off the top of his head.

 

The other episode with Palaniuk. Herren failed 4 successive polygraphs. Passed the 5th after opening up about speaking with two different individuals. That doesn’t sound so innocent.

 

Martin, he simply said that there was more to it and left it at that.

 

The rule is very old and was made and requested by pro anglers. They don’t want outcomes affected by “information”.

This is the next thing I'm listening to. I saw that Feider said anyone who reads the rules is looking to cheat and he may not be wrong.

 

29 minutes ago, Texas Flood said:

Anglers, yes. Members who get a monthly magazine, no.

 

 

Again, keep it in house and move on.

There's plenty of anglers who are displeased with how it was handled. "Belief without evidence is a sign of irrationality." Seems irrational to assume BASS is handling this correctly without any evidence being put out there. 

[Texas Flood]

26 minutes ago, JHoss said:

This is the next thing I'm listening to. I saw that Feider said anyone who reads the rules is looking to cheat and he may not be wrong.

 

There's plenty of anglers who are displeased with how it was handled. "Belief without evidence is a sign of irrationality." Seems irrational to assume BASS is handling this correctly without any evidence being put out there. 

I never said or assumed BASS is handling it correctly or not. My point is, the public does not need all the information presented to them at all times. It doesnt concern us like it does the anglers.

 

 

Are you this up in arms when a NFL player gets in trouble and you dont get all the information you think you need?

 

 

 

[Pumpkin Lizard]

32 minutes ago, JHoss said:

This is the next thing I'm listening to. I saw that Feider said anyone who reads the rules is looking to cheat and he may not be wrong.

 

There's plenty of anglers who are displeased with how it was handled. "Belief without evidence is a sign of irrationality." Seems irrational to assume BASS is handling this correctly without any evidence being put out there. 

Is it irrational to belief that they handled it improperly without any evidence?

 

The people that are stirring the pot are essentially trolls. The anglers are always complaining about something but the crackdown seems popular.

[Texas Flood]

No way this thread stays open much longer. lol

[Pumpkin Lizard]

4 minutes ago, Texas Flood said:

No way this thread stays open much longer. lol

 
I like the convo. Plus it’s not like we’re not being civil. 

[Texas Flood]

1 minute ago, Pumpkin Lizard said:

 
I like the convo. Plus it’s not like we’re not being civil. 

I do too and I also agree but I've seen others get shut down for less. 

[Pumpkin Lizard]

3 minutes ago, Texas Flood said:

I do too and I also agree but I've seen others get shut down for less. 

Then we will just have to talk about the Ray Scott musical.

[JHoss]

46 minutes ago, Texas Flood said:

Are you this up in arms when a NFL player gets in trouble and you dont get all the information you think you need?

I don't recall an instance in my lifetime where the NFL swept a cheating scandal under the rug. Everyone that I've heard about was addressed publicly and punishments explained. 

 

Perhaps more importantly, I never have any chance of playing in the NFL. I do have chance to fish in a BASS Open. So it's very reasonable for me to care more about how a league is run if I may be a part of that one day. The way that BASS has handled a number of issues this year would push me to fish with another organization if I was making that jump right now. 

 

31 minutes ago, Texas Flood said:

No way this thread stays open much longer. lol

I don't see any problems with the way we're all communicating on this thread. Everyone's being civil. You'll never see the perspective of the other side if you don't talk to the other side. 

[Texas Flood]

10 minutes ago, JHoss said:

I don't recall an instance in my lifetime where the NFL swept a cheating scandal under the rug. Everyone that I've heard about was addressed publicly and punishments explained. 

 

Perhaps more importantly, I never have any chance of playing in the NFL. I do have chance to fish in a BASS Open. So it's very reasonable for me to care more about how a league is run if I may be a part of that one day. The way that BASS has handled a number of issues this year would push me to fish with another organization if I was making that jump right now. 

 

I don't see any problems with the way we're all communicating on this thread. Everyone's being civil. You'll never see the perspective of the other side if you don't talk to the other side. 

My first thought is the Ray Rice incident. If youre fishing in BASS tournaments then absolutely you are correct. I just dont think the general public needs to know every detail IMO.

 

 

Also I agreed with @Pumpkin Lizard about this thread but you know when one might come to an end sometimes.

 

 

[JHoss]

I remember seeing the footage of Ray Rice hitting that woman. I was pretty young at the time, so I don't remember if there was a potential cover up before it came out, but at some point it all came out. 

 

But the actions of an athlete outside of their league is a whole different topic than an athlete cheating within their league. I can see how in some cases, the legal system may not be willing to release all the info. Nothing a league could do there.

 

The first things that came to mind for me were Deflategate and the Redskins scandal. Both of those were well publicized and I think the NFL even brought in the feds to help figure out the Redskins deal if I'm remembering correctly. 

[DogBone_384]

23 hours ago, Glenn said:

it's just a big nothingburger

 

Is that like a 'big kahuna burger'?

 

[Tennessee Boy]

Sports participants and sports fans have been complaining about how rules are enforced by officials since the beginning of time.  This happens in almost every sport.  There are no changes that can be made to the rules or the level of transparency that will change this.  Release more information and people will complain about the new information.  As long as humans are involved in calling the shots and interpreting the rules there will be accusations of unfairness and rumors of conspiracy theories.  If the last batter in the World Series strikes out on a called strike,  people will complain about the call.  What if the league later determines that the umpire missed the call?  Should that be made public?  It never ends.

 

College football is my first love and I'm just glad these types of controversies don't exist with it. 😆

[JHoss]

52 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

If the last batter in the World Series strikes out on a called strike,  people will complain about the call.  What if the league later determines that the umpire missed the call?  Should that be made public?  It never ends.

Isn't this exactly why they've been testing electronic strike zones and are allowing replay review of balls and strikes this year? Seems like the major sports organizations learn from their mistakes, albeit rather slowly. One of my main points on this thread is that BASS learned nothing from past scandals that they swept under the rug (i.e. Tony Christian). They have a prime opportunity to be better and at least share with their field of anglers why certain punishments have varied for breaking, essentially, the same rule. 

 

When Jaden Parrish got fined, BASS announced that he had received information but it didn't impact his results. That's why he was fined $4,000 of his $13,542 in winnings for finishing 5th out of 234. I just don't get how they can say his info didn't help his finish when he finished 5th? Meanwhile Herren got DQ'd for information that, by all accounts out right now, he didn't use by fishing in an entirely different area. 

 

 

[F14A-B]

Scott Martin used to be a hammer..

 

I won’t believe he’s cheating because he’s not winning nor finishing in the top 10..Fielder claims he’s been cheating for 30 years? That’s a ridiculous off the cuff statement. 
 

Take it for what it’s worth, People read rules because they’re wanting or trying to comply,

3 hours ago, JHoss said:

This is the next thing I'm listening to. I saw that Feider said anyone who readsthe rules is looking to cheat and he maynot be wrong.

Edited Thursday at 06:35 PM by F14A-B

[Tennessee Boy]

41 minutes ago, JHoss said:

Isn't this exactly why they've been testing electronic strike zones and are allowing replay review of balls and strikes this year?

I think it will be a huge improvement when a computer is calling balls and strikes.  Eventually I expect that all pitches will be called this way.  It will be more accurate.  Then we will move on from bad umpire conspiracies to bad software conspriacies. 😆

[JHoss]

58 minutes ago, F14A-B said:

Take it for what it’s worth, People read rules because they’re wanting or trying to comply,

It definitely goes both ways. I'd agree the average person reads rules to comply, but others definitely read them to look for gray areas to exploit. There are "KVD Rules" and "Wheeler Rules" in both BASS and MLF rulebooks because those guys would try find gray areas they could exploit. Not necessarily anything wrong with it if no rule is broken, but proof that even the most highly respected guys in our sport will read a rule book to look for an advantage rather than compliance. If they're doing that, then other's are certainly looking for gray areas to exploit in the current rules. 

 

40 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I think it will be a huge improvement when a computer is calling balls and strikes.  Eventually I expect that all pitches will be called this way.  It will be more accurate.  Then we will move on from bad umpire conspiracies to bad software conspriacies. 😆

I see no downside to it. I like that they're trying new things and making corrections when they don't work. I really like when a replay review shows an umpire how badly they blew a call.

 

BASS did that to an extent when they adjusted the no entry fee deal after anglers expressed frustration. 

[Logan S]

1 hour ago, JHoss said:

One of my main points on this thread is that BASS learned nothing from past scandals that they swept under the rug (i.e. Tony Christian).

This was FLW - now MLF - and not BASS.  Tony is the DB Cooper of bass fishing, don't think anyone will know exactly what happened, how it happened, and why it's so secretive...I really want to know though!

 

If there's one thing I've learned about information, cheating, and tournament fishing is that there's ALWAYS more to the story....Herren's seemed innocent then you hear he failed 4 polys....Scott's seemed innocent then you hear about some mysterious video and an ultimatum.  Most have been like that... The NPFL one was caught live, so there was nothing to hide. 

 

People underestimate just how little information it takes to help a good fisherman.  Something as simple as, "north end is better than the south end," is immensely helpful to an angler who knows what they're doing but has a limited practice window.  Knowing if your roommate is catching them can also help you in many different ways, as others have pointed out.  It's why the information rules are tricky and also why enforcement is and should be strict (if they are going to have the rule).

 

I personally now think they need to scrap the info rules and instead completely wipe all gps data the night before official practice begins, maybe again after practice ends too. They can get all the information they want, but when it's go-time they still need go out and find things for themselves.  Guys will still cheat and try to sneak things in or whatever, but at least it will be more black and white.