Old vs new design specs.

[fish'n Jim]

I've posted that I've changed out all the electronics on my 520C and thought I had the gremlims tamed.   In recent close out conversations w/ Garmin tech, about other issues, when we were 'talking'(vis email) power, he handily pointed out they REQUIRE higher gauge wiring to satisfy the warranty.   (I think it's just an out and they're protecting themselves, because if you look at the specs there's no way you need to run 6 Ga for ~4 amps 12 VDC!   The TM max pulls >50amps and it's 6 ga?   So I'm stuck in a quandary - to wire to spec or not.  Personally I don't see any way except the port side TM cableway and that causes interference.   I don't think I can snake 2 6 ga up the starboard conduit with all the other wire in there already.   These boats are foam filled.   I'm getting a quote from a marine electrician and his opinion this coming week.   More later.   The neck down to 20-22 ga at the connector also?   

I just noticed the new Ranger ad, stating "they now use 6 ga for electronics".   Whoopee!   Selling point, but is it necessary?   The typical way is to grandfather.   I ran the same set-up on my earlier Z-20 and it worked flawless.   Maybe the new gen is more iffy with all the wireless comm.?   Do I really need a message on my graph that I got a phone call or text when the phone is in the glove box on low power?   Or are they spying on me?

Anyone fighting upgrades, let me know what you're doing, going to do, or been told.

As fast as I change electronics, I don't see adding a few months of life for a measly warranty on one unit.   If they're as good as I think won't become an issue.   They would not give me, how long the life the extra Ga wiring adds, their power spec, so I could not calculate the options.  Typical control of voltage is by a capacitance bank, but I understand they have one internally. (redundant design?)   The Charge is doing a good job now of holding at 12 VDC up front but the control is a bit slow when you step on the TM, dips a tenth or two momentarily..

[Tennessee Boy]

Saying they require a specific wire gauge is absurd.  Now saying they require a certain voltage is reasonable and the voltage drop in the wiring is affected by the length and gauge of the wire.  If they told me they require 6 gauge wire I would ask them why the power cord they supply that runs to the unit is not 6 gauge.  

 

I've checked the specs on several Garmin units online and they all say the voltage requirements are 9 to 18 volts.  There is no way your voltage is dropping below 9 volts due to your wire gauge.

[WRB]

DC voltage drops significantly if the wire size is too small due to resistance. AC voltage not affected as much.

Always used 6 gage wire for the battery to TM for decades SOP.

surprised the Bass boat doesn’t have 6 gage primary TM wire from batteries to the bow.

Tom

[F14A-B]

Yup.. go with 6 gauge. Sorry but that’s probably why you’re having that voltage dip when you run your trolling motor, Tom is totally right. I pulled 6 on my Skeeter years ago and never had any issues for the 10 years I ran it.. Good luck. 

[Tennessee Boy]

@fish'n Jim  Are you running the electronics on the same battery as the trolling motor?  

[fish'n Jim]

Sorry late getting back.

Since I "tuned" up the "Charge" (onboard battery control) system and put the LVS on a switch, the voltage is quite stable around 12 VDC through out the day, measured on the bow unit.   Charge's making corrections based on system voltages /amp draws since it monitors all 4 (31 AGM) batteries and transfers energy where needed when big motors running and not.   I might still change out the starting battery since it spent the last 2 years not getting full charge.   I'm waiting on an estimate to run 6GA up to front before I decide further action.

Technically, I don't see new wire being necessary, only a warranty issue, not performance, as I ran nearly the same setup on my Z20 w/ no issues.   Ranger didn't say much and recommended 10 ga. if two front units, but I'm only running one.  But their new boats advertise 6 ga for those boats that look like a control room, not a fishing platform???   Who has time for that?   I don't advertise.

I think that bow circuit is branched off the console power anyway.  To know the exact length of each wire/ ga to make calculations would take some uneasy exploration.  The starboard conduits aren't easy to access.   

If one runs another set of power wires up with the TM conduit on the port, asking for interference.

If you're familiar with a 520C, the TM runs off 6 ga on a separate 3 battery 36VDC circuit.  112 TM's capable of >50A draw.    Only the battery system controller is connected and would know when drawing.   All electronics on the NMEA network are powered off the 12 VDC starting batt.   Plus there's wireless comm between the bow & console units, charge, and iphone.

ps: I see some tournaments are requiring use restrictions on forward facing sonar(FFS).   They require the transducer to be disconnected and a red cable cap applied.   If your FFS unit is not switchable, it runs but no sonar.    May causes heat issues.   I'm no longer competing, just raising the issue.   Eventually, the manufacturers will sort this out, but we're dealing with it in real time like most beta tests too soon to market.  One reason I tried to prolong changing out as long as I could.   But the tech is pretty slick.   Last week, I was watching a "big bass" roaming under my boat.   I could see all it's movement, dorsal and tail fins.   

My boat is down this week.   During annual, I noticed timing belt was worn.   I'd bought the belt but procrastinated on repairs.   Trailering last Tues, I heard a slapping noise.   When I went to  replace belt, it was slack, and the tensioner wouldn't move.   Waiting on new tensioner.   

[Tennessee Boy]

I would love to see the email you received from the Garmin tech.  If the guy said they require 6 gauge wire for their electronics I would get confirmation from someone higher up.  It's ridiculous.  Also,  they need to know if their techs are making up rules as they go.

[fish'n Jim]

Problem attaching the instruction file.   It's pdf but gets a not allowed.

It's in the installation manual so not made up.   In order to come direct from the battery on my boat it's ~25" of run.   6-8 Ga depending on actual length req'd.

From the email:

 

"Per our Garmin Marine Warranty Policy: "7.1.1 Installations not in accordance with the installation guidelines provided in the Garmin/Fusion/EmpirBus branded user/install manual will invalidate the warranty." 

 

10 AWG is the minimum required gauge size to power the GLS10 black box (for runs up to 15 feet from the battery, per the installation instructions for the GLS 10 black box below). 

 

Garmin_Panoptix_Livescope_Install_Instructions_EN.pdf.

Per our Garmin Marine Warranty Policy: "7.1.1 Installations not in accordance with the installation guidelines provided in the Garmin/Fusion/EmpirBus branded user/install manual will invalidate the warranty." 

 

10 AWG is the minimum required gauge size to power the GLS10 black box (for runs up to 15 feet from the battery, per the installation instructions for the GLS 10 black box below). 

 

Garmin_Panoptix_Livescope_Install_Instructions_EN.pdf

[Tennessee Boy]

Thanks for posting that.   Requiring a minimum gauge for a specific length of wire is reasonable since gauge, length of the wire and the amount of current determine the voltage drop in the wiring.  All that matters is the voltage to the unit.

 

I looked at the specs for the GLS10.  It pulls a maximum 58 watts which is a lot.  It also specifies that the required power input is 10-32 volts.  There is no way the voltage will drop below 10 volts unless the battery is very low.

 

Here's a good resource for determining wiring requirements.

 

https://www.***.com/resources/1437