guide sensitivity

[BassSteve]

hey guys,

 

back from my break and will start getting into my fishing again, hope everyone is doing well, just wanted to ask a question or opinion question...between rods made with Alconite, SiC, or Torzite guides, how much of a difference can really be felt in terms of smoothness? I only own rods with maybe Alconite guides so I can't really compare myself. 

 

it seems like they would all "perform" very comparably, but can the difference really be felt or noticed? 

[webertime]

I can't tell the difference between them for smoothness as far as sensitivity.  But the lighter the guide the lighter the rod above the reel and that helps sensitivity.  I built rods that I'll never use braid on with all steel super light guides.

[PBBrandon]

Unless they are AGS guides I cant really tell the difference in sensitivity. Weight and rod balance are affected though. Alconites are good but they are heavier than SiC or Torzite

[Logan S]

It's the weight not the material that really makes a difference....And most blanks probably can't take advantage of the miniscule difference between say an Alconite and a SiC or Torzite. However on a high mod, lightweight, premium blank it might be enough to notice if you're really tuned into your equipment.  

 

The use case for a premium guide IMO is a lightweight, high mod blank you plan to use for techniques with fluorocarbon line.  Braid would make it overkill and mono/nylon would make them a waste.  

 

It's a bigger deal on spinning rods with the larger frames and rings, but with braid to leader being so common these days for spinning techniques, it's a little more of a case by case basis as to whether it's worth it or not.  

[MickD]

The major difference in guide performance on the completed rod is as others have said, weight.  The lighter the guide (titanium vs SS), the less the guides will slow down the recovery from deflection of the bare blank.  You achieve the lightest guide set with choosing the smallest size you can get away with and the lightest guide in that size (titanium frame vs SS).  This can be measured by checking the True Natural Frequency of the blank, then repeating it with different guides.  You will see the advantage of lighter guides with higher TNF numbers.  The big question is whether or not one can feel what might be a 10 % or so difference in TNF.  It should result in longer casts and a crisper, cleaner, feel AND most likely better sensitivity  (ability to feel a bite).   Out on the rod, in the area of running guides on spin, is where the difference is the greatest.  Yes, I have numbers to back up my statements.  When I am after the highest performing rods, rods intended for finesse,  I use the smallest titanium-framed Fuji guides (and titanium framed tiptop)  I can get away with.  Usually 4mm runners and tiptop.

[BassSteve]

5 hours ago, MickD said:

The major difference in guide performance on the completed rod is as others have said, weight.  The lighter the guide (titanium vs SS), the less the guides will slow down the recovery from deflection of the bare blank.  You achieve the lightest guide set with choosing the smallest size you can get away with and the lightest guide in that size (titanium frame vs SS).  This can be measured by checking the True Natural Frequency of the blank, then repeating it with different guides.  You will see the advantage of lighter guides with higher TNF numbers.  The big question is whether or not one can feel what might be a 10 % or so difference in TNF.  It should result in longer casts and a crisper, cleaner, feel AND most likely better sensitivity  (ability to feel a bite).   Out on the rod, in the area of running guides on spin, is where the difference is the greatest.  Yes, I have numbers to back up my statements.  When I am after the highest performing rods, rods intended for finesse,  I use the smallest titanium-framed Fuji guides (and titanium framed tiptop)  I can get away with.  Usually 4mm runners and tiptop.

interesting points..so would it be safe to assume that you believe Fuji guides are the best quality guides on the market ? I'm not even sure who the competitors would be honestly, i don't buy components or build custom rods 

[Alex from GA]

Like the others have said it's weight on the end that matters.  I use size 5 Minima or SSR guides for all my freshwater and inshore rods for running guides.

[BassSteve]

24 minutes ago, Alex from GA said:

I use size 5 Minima or SSR guides for all my freshwater and inshore rods for running guides.

is that a Japanese company or Finnish or something? I'm not familiar with guide manufacturers 

[GetFishorDieTryin]

Guides definitely effect the performance of the rod.  The lighter the rod and the better the balance, the more sensitive it will be.  I got my first rod with AGS guides and I feel like they make a difference for slackline sensitivity.  The tradeoff is durability.  I have more confidence in Ti Sics/Torzites to take damage and still function, but time will tell.  

[BassSteve]

 

7 minutes ago, GetFishorDieTryin said:

Guides definitely effect the performance of the rod.  The lighter the rod and the better the balance, the more sensitive it will be.  I got my first rod with AGS guides and I feel like they make a difference for slackline sensitivity.  The tradeoff is durability.  I have more confidence in Ti Sics/Torzites to take damage and still function, but time will tell.  

that's interesting, another guide that people don't mention much is Fazlite. it's not the premium one but they still seem pretty nice....by the way your "woah son" thing at the bottom reminds me of what I hear roland martin say sometimes when he is catching fish in his videos lol 😄

[GetFishorDieTryin]

To me fazlite is as serviceable as alconite as a material, but alconites cost a little more so they are a little more desirable to most.

Yes, the whoa son! is from RM lol.

[Logan S]

For a casting rod, a "standard" 10 guide setup of Alconites would run you about $27, vs about $22 for FazLite.  Most people would spend that $5 to get the Alconites.

 

Same 10 guide setup in SiC is about $63....Ti/SiC about $93... Torzite about $113.  You can't buy AGS guides but NFC makes carbon framed guides that are similar and would likely run you around $150.  

 

Obviously the jump from Alconite to SiC is significant, and huge to Titanium or carbon.  If I'm building to a certain budget, I always recommend Alconites first on the theory that the money saved can be put towards a nicer blank since that would deliver a higher performing rod than using premium guides on a lesser blank.

 

Picking guides for a custom rod is not the same as evaluating the guides on factory rods though (IMO).  I personally wouldn't let the guides on a factory rod be a huge part of my purchase decision, most rods will have appropriate guides for their price point...But there are exceptions, for example the Daiwa Rebellion line was $200 but came with polished SiC guides, which made them stand out against other rods in the $200 class.

[MickD]

15 hours ago, BassSteve said:

interesting points..so would it be safe to assume that you believe Fuji guides are the best quality guides on the market ? I'm not even sure who the competitors would be honestly, i don't buy components or build custom rods 

I prefer Fujis because they are very high quality, like jewelry for the rod, have a  good number of ring and finish options, and their software for locating the reduction guides on spin is bulletproof with KLH reduction guides.  The KT's for runners way out on the the blank are very light.  I have never had a Fuji fail or cause any problems.  Alps guides are high quality also, but I prefer the look of Fujis for most rods.  There is one brand which I won't mention here, but I won't use because their titaniums break easily.  There are a lot of brands to chose from , but I don't know what to expect from them, not having used them.  

[BassSteve]

1 hour ago, MickD said:

I prefer Fujis because they are very high quality, like jewelry for the rod, have a  good number of ring and finish options, and their software for locating the reduction guides on spin is bulletproof with KLH reduction guides.  The KT's for runners way out on the the blank are very light.  I have never had a Fuji fail or cause any problems.  Alps guides are high quality also, but I prefer the look of Fujis for most rods.  There is one brand which I won't mention here, but I won't use because their titaniums break easily.  There are a lot of brands to chose from , but I don't know what to expect from them, not having used them.  

oh ok valid points there, I guess it can be said pretty much anything Japanese made is going to be high quality. Japan is a leader in the fishing industry after all but I also hear Sweden or Finland is too

[FishTank]

The only guides I have used that I believe added sensitivity to a rod were Recoils. The reason I say that, several years ago I broke a GLX JWR 803C that had the Recoil guides. I loved this rod. Through warranty, Loomis sent me the next generation of GLX JWR and it did not have the Recoil guides. It was a definite downgrade in terms of sensitivity, still good though. Then the NRX comes out just a few months later with Recoil guides and I bought one. It was like fishing my old GLX but a little better.   The Recoil guides to me definitely made a difference. 

[BassSteve]

2 hours ago, FishTank said:

The only guides I have used that I believe added sensitivity to a rod were Recoils. The reason I say that, several years ago I broke a GLX JWR 803C that had the Recoil guides. I loved this rod. Through warranty, Loomis sent me the next generation of GLX JWR and it did not have the Recoil guides. It was a definite downgrade in terms of sensitivity, still good though. Then the NRX comes out just a few months later with Recoil guides and I bought one. It was like fishing my old GLX but a little better.   The Recoil guides to me definitely made a difference. 

i have seen the recoil guides only a few times browsing rods online, it seems they are very rarely used on rods, and the rods they are used on seem to always be very expensive. why is this type of guide used on high end rods? are the guides expensive, or are they just not as popular as typical guides with an inner ring? 

[FishTank]

1 hour ago, BassSteve said:

i have seen the recoil guides only a few times browsing rods online, it seems they are very rarely used on rods, and the rods they are used on seem to always be very expensive. why is this type of guide used on high end rods? are the guides expensive, or are they just not as popular as typical guides with an inner ring? 

Not 100% sure. It's probably because they are lighter than most and again,  maybe the sensitivity of them.

[MickD]

4 hours ago, FishTank said:

The Recoil guides to me definitely made a difference. 

. . . because?

 

most likely because they were very light.  The lighter the guides on most rods and the higher the TNF, the crisper and cleaner the rod feels, and most likely more sensitivity.  

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

On 3/1/2025 at 10:37 AM, MickD said:

The major difference in guide performance on the completed rod is as others have said, weight.  The lighter the guide (titanium vs SS), the less the guides will slow down the recovery from deflection of the bare blank.  You achieve the lightest guide set with choosing the smallest size you can get away with and the lightest guide in that size (titanium frame vs SS).  This can be measured by checking the True Natural Frequency of the blank, then repeating it with different guides.  You will see the advantage of lighter guides with higher TNF numbers.  The big question is whether or not one can feel what might be a 10 % or so difference in TNF.  It should result in longer casts and a crisper, cleaner, feel AND most likely better sensitivity  (ability to feel a bite).   Out on the rod, in the area of running guides on spin, is where the difference is the greatest.  Yes, I have numbers to back up my statements.  When I am after the highest performing rods, rods intended for finesse,  I use the smallest titanium-framed Fuji guides (and titanium framed tiptop)  I can get away with.  Usually 4mm runners and tiptop.

Well said.