Spool Bearing Upgrade & Minimal Casting Gain Concerns

[DEPS_250]

I am thinking about upgrading the stock spool bearings on my Daiwa Tatula 300 to aftermarket performance spool bearings.

 

The problem is, the Daiwa Tatula 300 comes with Daiwa's 'base/standard' Magforce braking system. Based on what I have read and researched, the standard Magforce braking system is basically 'ON' all the time and therefore is 'constantly' applying braking force throughout a cast's full length/arc/time.

 

With this in mind, it got me thinking that upgrading the spool bearings would only be worth it if I had a Daiwa reel that came with a higher tier and/or higher tech braking system like Daiwa's Magforce Z. Since the Daiwa Tatula 300 comes with the standard Magforce, I am thinking upgrading the spool bearings might just be a lost cause and I might not even see any performance gains.

 

Essentially, would the constant braking force from the standard Magforce braking system 'negate' any performance gains from aftermarket bearings? Even if there is a slight performance gain, I feel like it would be so minimal/minuscule that I would probably not even feel it.

 

With that said, Has anyone in here ever experimented with aftermarket performance bearings on Daiwa's base/standard Magforce braking system? Did you see and/or feel any noticeable performance gains? 

[webertime]

So you went down the rabbit hole.  The stock bearings if properly cleaned and lightly lubed are nearly as good as wizz-bang ABEC 126 bearings.  The higher on the ABEC scale the smoother (IE less energy lost to resistance).  But there's more too it.  The load on the bearing (weight of spool and line) is pretty darned light and more importantly the duration of the rotation (how long the spool spins) is very short regardless of the braking system. So you may see a tiny improvement in distance but is it $20-$70 better?  That's up to you.  Not to me.  Now if the bearing were rotating much longer and a heavier weight then yes you can save energy (watts) but this would be important on say bicycle hubs and Bottom brackets on a high level performing cyclists bike where the wheels/crankset is spinning waaaaaay longer.  But a 4 second cast... not much gained.

 

 

[F14A-B]

6 minutes ago, webertime said:

So you went down the rabbit hole.  The stock bearings if properly cleaned and lightly lubed are nearly as good as wizz-bang ABEC 126 bearings.  The higher on the ABEC scale the smoother (IE less energy lost to resistance).  But there's more too it.  The load on the bearing (weight of spool and line) is pretty darned light and more importantly the duration of the rotation (how long the spool spins) is very short regardless of the braking system. So you may see a tiny improvement in distance but is it $20-$70 better?  That's up to you.  Not to me.  Now if the bearing were rotating much longer and a heavier weight then yes you can save energy (watts) but this would be important on say bicycle hubs and Bottom brackets on a high level performing cyclists bike where the wheels/crankset is spinning waaaaaay longer.  But a 4 second cast... not much gained.

 

 

I tend to agree, 10 years ago I bought ceramic bearings and put them in a Curado 50E. Very little gain, I’d say it pitched a little easier and those bearings were straight up noisy 😂. I removed them and went back to stock. 

[FishTank]

54 minutes ago, F14A-B said:

I tend to agree, 10 years ago I bought ceramic bearings and put them in a Curado 50E. Very little gain, I’d say it pitched a little easier and those bearings were straight up noisy 😂. I removed them and went back to stock. 

 

I have had mixed results with bearing upgrades. I did put a pair of Boca Abec 7 bearings in a Chronarch 51e and it was not great at first. It took probably 20 hours (6 months to a year) with light oil on that reel for the noise to finally go away but casting was vastly improved. It's a total blast to fish. I have them in several other reels as well.

 

I also purchased two used Cores,  51 and 101. The previous owner replaced all the bearings and had orange seal Abec 7s put in them. Seemed like a waste but they are amazing.  

 

On the other side things, there is the two 2012 Antares I have.  Both casted well before replacing the bearings but I had one spool bearing that needed replaced so picked up four new ones. I really didn't see much improvement but they are smooth after all these years of fishing. It seems to me that the 3x10x4 part bearing in their upper end reels is better or equal to the Abec 7 ceramics. 

 

Then there is Daiwa.  It took me till this year to realize there are some issues with their stock bearings.  They're not bad. They just need to be cleaned of all the grease or oil that's in them. I just worked on 8 Tatulas variants, 4 Steez's, 2 Zillions and a Millionaire CT. Except for the Steez's, each one had a bearing that felt off. Between the 15 reels, I replaced 7 bearings. The rest got cleaned in an ultrasonic cleaner and oiled. They feel totally different.  Really smooth. 

[F14A-B]

2 minutes ago, FishTank said:

 

I have had mixed results with bearing upgrades. I did put a pair of Boca Abec 7 bearings in a Chronarch 51e and it was not great at first. It took probably 20 hours (6 months to a year) with light oil on that reel for the noise to finally go away but casting was vastly improved. It's a total blast to fish. I have them in several other reels as well.

 

I also purchased two used Cores,  51 and 101. The previous owner replaced all the bearings and had orange seal Abec 7s put in them. Seemed like a waste but they are amazing.  

 

On the other side things, there is the 2012 Antares I hav.  Both casted well before replacing the bearings but I had one spool bearing that needed replaced so picked up four new ones. I really didn't see much improvement but they are smooth after all these years of fishing. It seems to me that the 3x10x4 part bearing in their upper end reels is better or equal to the Abec 7 ceramics. 

 

Then there is Daiwa.  It took me till this year to realize there are some issues with their stock bearings.  They're not bad. They just need to be cleaned of all the grease or oil that's in them. I just worked on 8 Tatulas variants, 4 Steez's, 2 Zillions and a Millionaire CT. Except for the Steez's, each one had a bearing that felt off. Between the 15 reels, I replaced 7 bearings. The rest got cleaned in an ultrasonic cleaner and oiled. They feel totally different.  Really smooth. 

I’ve thought about trying them again, I’ve just purchased 2 Daiwa HD 1000 reels in the past couple weeks. What did you use in your Daiwa? Also I guess you need a tool to replace the spool bearings? But tbh, the first one is an amazing pitching reel and casts as far as my Bantams and Mets. I just got the second one yesterday and have not tried to throw it yet. The weather is garbage as you know in Indiana 😂 

[FishTank]

3 minutes ago, F14A-B said:

I’ve thought about trying them again, I’ve just purchased 2 Daiwa HD 1000 reels in the past couple weeks. What did you use in your Daiwa? Also I guess you need a tool to replace the spool bearings? But tbh, the first one is an amazing pitching reel and casts as far as my Bantams and Mets. I just got the second one yesterday and have not tried to throw it yet. The weather is garbage as you know in Indiana 😂 

Ya, any reel I work on, I usually test it out but it was 10 degrees last night. Forget it. 

 

For Daiwa and Shimano, I have used Bocas, Spool Speed, Hedgehogs once, and of course stock but I have just replaced a Magsealed bearing with a Abec 7 equivalent and not sure how this experiment is going to work but it was cheaper than the so called replacement from Daiwa. I'm still confused but it looked like Plat wanted $50-$60 for it. On Daiwa's site, it said ship for repair.

 

On the OP original question,  I have the Tatula 300 and have been kind of underwhelmed by its casting.  Im going to wait until spring with this one. I am Daiwa'd out after working on these reels. They were harder to work on and took longer. I think I am going to clean the bearings and then re-oil before buying new ceramics. 

[F14A-B]

2 minutes ago, FishTank said:

Ya, any reel I work on, I usually test it out but it was 10 degrees last night. Forget it. 

 

For Daiwa and Shimano, I have used Bocas, Spool Speed, Hedgehogs once, and of course stock but I have just replaced a Magsealed bearing with a Abec 7 equivalent and not sure how this experiment is going to work but it was cheaper than the so called replacement from Daiwa. I'm still confused but it looked like Plat wanted $50-$60 for it. On Daiwa's site, it said ship for repair.

 

On the OP original question,  I have the Tatula 300 and have been kind of underwhelmed by its casting.  Im going to wait until spring with this one. I am Daiwa'd out after working on these reels. They were harder to work on and took longer. I think I am going to clean the bearings and then re-oil before buying new ceramics. 

Ugh, so Daiwa has become difficult to work on? I hate to hear that, I haven’t used Daiwa since the OG Zillion and TDZ hit the market.. guess I’ll keep my Shimano’s close. 🤣

[webertime]

A better investment for the money spent on bearings is an ultrasonic cleaner.  Great for getting over packed bearings clean.

[Bigbox99]

Its a Tatula 300.  It has an agressive braking profile to handle big stiff plastic lines and clumsy things like glide baits.  It would be the last thing on earth I would want to change bearings on to get crazy free spin.  If anything I would put a heavier oil in them to extend their service life.  I would understand if you did something crazy and spool swapped it like this guy: https://webs.coffee/spool-t/ but for a stock spool?.  The only big baits that are going to casts like rockets and make use of a free braking profile would be weight transfer baits like the Big M 4.0 or a big spoon like in videos in the link above.  In that case get a Z200/Z2020 and set it to Long Cast mode or check out some of the Shimano big bait reels.  Also you're going to want to use braid if you do this.  Fast spools and big stiff plastic line are a nightmare to pair together.  

[FrnkNsteen]

The times I have replaced bearings, I didn't really notice an increase in casting difference anyway. More just a difference in smoothness and ease of casting.

 

I didn't go to ceramics though because I knew they had a reputation for being noisy and I knew that would drive me nuts. I think the ones I went with were the Hedgehog Air.

[FishTank]

7 minutes ago, F14A-B said:

Ugh, so Daiwa has become difficult to work on? I hate to hear that, I haven’t used Daiwa since the OG Zillion and TDZ hit the market.. guess I’ll keep my Shimano’s close. 🤣

 

Most if not all Shimanos are easier to work on.

 

The Daiwas, to me, have some weird and sometimes irritating things.... odd flat head screws that are stripped from the factory, screws that have blue Loctite, getting the handles to line up when finishing a reel, the sleeve that goes over the main drive shaft is sometimes hard to get off, the plastic sleeve that is in the bearing under the cast control cap sticks or can break, the holes on the plastic gear below the drag have to line up perfectly to get it back on, the Millionaire CT has some nonremovable screws that are in the frame, over greased bearings, the mag oil, etc. 

 

I think that covers my rant on Daiwa but I still love using them. They're great reels.

[F14A-B]

10 minutes ago, FishTank said:

 

Most if not all Shimanos are easier to work on.

 

The Daiwas, to me, have some weird and sometimes irritating things.... odd flat head screws that are stripped from the factory, screws that have blue Loctite, getting the handles to line up when finishing a reel, the sleeve that goes over the main drive shaft is sometimes hard to get off, the plastic sleeve that is in the bearing under the cast control cap sticks or can break, the holes on the plastic gear below the drag have to line up perfectly to get it back on, the Millionaire CT has some nonremovable screws that are in the frame, over greased bearings, the mag oil, etc. 

 

I think that covers my rant on Daiwa but I still love using them. They're great reels.

I appreciate the answer, I use to work on all my Daiwa BC reels years ago.. 

Sounds like I will send mine off if it comes down to it! 😂

[crypt]

59 minutes ago, webertime said:

A better investment for the money spent on bearings is an ultrasonic cleaner.  Great for getting over packed bearings clean.

this is what I did......

[FishTank]

30 minutes ago, F14A-B said:

I appreciate the answer, I use to work on all my Daiwa BC reels years ago.. 

Sounds like I will send mine off if it comes down to it! 😂

It's really not that bad. It's just seems like they are making them more difficult to work on,  on purpose. 

 

If you have worked on them in the past, it's worth the time to try it yourself.  All of them are a puzzle to me. Sometimes the more difficult the puzzle,  the greater the reward is when you've completed it. 

 

Also, I always say the Core is my favorite reel. One of the reasons is that it's perfect in it's simplicity.  Easy to work on and easy to use, and yet, it performs so well.

[bulldog1935]

I've had success with Every spool bearing upgrade. Along the way I've tried some I don't like (full zirconia), but ultimately improved every reel with spool bearings I do like.  

The ABEC is not the object.  

Reducing the moving mass and inertia of the spool bearings is the object.  

 

Here's  the Hedgehog Studio page with 1150 + 1030 upgrades that fit your Tatula 300

https://www.hedgehog-studio.co.jp/product-list/89

Here's the bearing load-range chart.  

 

Whether you're upgrading to full-size hybrid ceramic (e.g., my surf Ambassadeurs), or through the range of micro-ball sizes, you're going to see 5% to 15% improvement in cast distance and light end.  

From the links above, Air HD are a very good trade-off between distance, life and load range.  

 

Same size bearings are in my Super Duty G's and Alcance.  These aren't Hedgehog, but are equivalent bearings - IXA MBS bearings from KTF.  

Last note about unshielded spool bearings - you need to add a drop of (racy) bearing oil about every month of use.  

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Imo the biggest advantage of bearing upgrades is ease of casting resulting in improved accuracy. Some ancillary gains in distance are usually noticed too. The benefit of bearing upgrades should always be measured against properly flushed and oiled stock bearings.