Best Modern Low-Stretch Copolymer / Mono (Life After Defier Armilo)

[BassKat]

I only use braid for spinning and heavy vegetation, don't fish much clear water, and generally dislike fluorocarbon, so I rely heavily on modern low-stretch copolymer / monofilaments.  My historical benchmark for this was Sensation because Sensation has very acceptable stretch, good abrasion resistance, and fairly low memory at a great price. Although satisfied with Sensation, I still test around. When I discovered Defier Armilo, I was blown away. It became my go-to for abrasive environments or clear water where Defier Armilo's small diameter yielded a notable advantage. Since Defier Armilo has been discontinued, I've been lost in the wilderness.

 

Being so fond of Defier Armilo, I tested Sunline Super Mono, but it just didn't have the abrasion resistance I require at any diameter. I do think it would make a fine open-water line, but I fish mostly wood and rock structures.  

 

I've been testing Sufix Advance. Overall, I like Sufix Advance, but the strenth to diameter bugs me a bit. I know the mindset of just buying the diameter you want and seeing if there's an over-delivery of strength that makes it moot. That is exactly where I am in my testing of Sufix Advance. So, I'm basically testing 10lb Advance against 12lb Sensation. Advance is putting up an admirable fight, but my gut tells me I'm getting a little more abrasion resistance out of the Sensation.

 

After seeing a favorable review on TackleTour, I also have P-Line Fluoroclear "in testing". I broke off a nice fish on day 1 last weekend and have seen comments where others have questioned Fluoroclear's durability. Other than that one break-off (which could have been me missing a needed re-tie), I was otherwise satisfied enough with Fluoroclear's other properties to continue testing.

 

I'd appreciate everyone's input on modern low-stretch copolymers / monos, especially those with good strength-to-diameter ratios. I've seen good reviews of other P-Line products. However, except for Fluoroclear and CX, I didn't see any with good strength-to-diameter ratios.  I have not tried any P-Line CX in case any of you are wild about it.  I'll greatly appreciate any feedback the forum has...thanks!

 

 

[MN Fisher]

Once you go YZH, you'll never go back.

[F14A-B]

I use Yozuri Hybrid on baitcasters. 
Spinning I love either Pline CX or CXX 

CX is a very forgiving line on spinning but around rocks you’ll have some trouble. I still have a couple thousand yards of Tripple Fish which is made out of Perlon. It is very good line, it was a German made line and was absolutely solid line, I think it’s made now in Portugal. 

[A-Jay]

@BassKat

I am also a fan of  Defier Armilo and am still working on the supply I have left.

While good old Big Game still produces for me,

I can feel good about recommending Maxima Ultragreen Line.

Seem to be marked a bit higher than it's test diameter.

However IMO it possesses all of the attributes I prefer when it comes time

to landing that fish of a life time.

Make no mistake however, I WILL use FC line given the chance,

but this is good stuff.

Haven't tried the clear but have to think it's just as good. 

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Maxima_Ultragreen_Line/descpage-MUG.html

I talk a little about it here:

https://youtu.be/E8UfnBPoH-M?feature=shared&t=2966

Good Luck

A-Jay

 

[T-Billy]

16 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

Once you go YZH, you'll never go back.

X2

[LCG]

I have had very good experience with yo zuri hybrid for the last couple years. 

 

Experimenting with straight braid this upcoming season, but will have one set up with yo zuri for sure. 

[MediumMouthBass]

Yo Zuri Hybrid beats mono.

Yo Zuri Hybrid beats fluoro.

Yo Zuri Hybrid beats every other copoly/hyrbid line (for casting reels that is)

 

Its around $11 for a 600 yard spool (although sometimes on sale for 50% less or buy 3 get 3 free when DSG runs them on that sale once or twice a year).

3 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

Once you go YZH, you'll never go back.

I went all in on YZH, and i went back. 

Back to the store to get some more!!!!

[woolleyfooley]

3 minutes ago, MediumMouthBass said:

Yo Zuri Hybrid beats mono.

Yo Zuri Hybrid beats fluoro.

Yo Zuri Hybrid beats every other copoly/hyrbid line (for casting reels that is)

 

Its around $11 for a 600 yard spool (although sometimes on sale for 50% less or buy 3 get 3 free when DSG runs them on that sale once or twice a year).

I went all in on YZH, and i went back. 

Back to the store to get some more!!!!

I don’t have experience with copoly lines. What does it do better than mono or fluoro? I may have to try some out.

[zell_pop1]

If you are looking for alternatives to the discontinued Defier lines then maybe Suffix Siege on casting and Elite on spinning or P Line Topwater on casting and CX on spinning. 

YZH ya I use to like it but like any FC line you will get some breaks in the spool if you have an overrun, and it coils up bad on #12+.  

[MediumMouthBass]

3 hours ago, woolleyfooley said:

I don’t have experience with copoly lines. What does it do better than mono or fluoro? I may have to try some out.

Monofilament has alot of stretch, not great for setting hooks when the line is out far, not much sensitivity either. Nor does it have good abrasion resistance. (also has a severe issue with line memory, although removing the spool with the fresh mono on it and soaking it in hot water will fix this most times, however after awhile it starts to get bad again deeper in the spool.

 

Fluorocarbon is very stiff and has some stretch or none of it depending on brand/series of line of course, its more sensitive and does better at setting the hook at distance (although braid would be the best for this). Usually has better abrasion resistance than mono, but gets sliced right through by pickerel, and doesnt hold up to rocks and zebra mussels as well as fluoro in the 20-40lb + range (again this is brand dependent). But everything budget friendly is junk, even some of the "good" stuff that costs $20 to spool 1 reel usually has some bad reviews too.

Some people have 0 issues with fluoro, where others its a nightmare and a mess if not treated properly. It also can be more prone to breaking (again depending on which brand).

 

Hybrid takes the best of both and combines it, while negating most of the issues that each type of line has at the same time. Just enough stretch to catch fish on moving baits (especially treble hooked ones), but enough stiffness and sensitivity to fish Texas rigs and jigs on the bottom.

YZH for me atleast has the best abrasion resistance ive ever used in all types of line, i fish many places with rocks and chain pickerel too. One place even has zebra mussels, which are known to destroy line.

 

It barely ever breaks either. Like when you are stuck in rocks and wood and are unable to retrieve the lure and have to pull on it to either get the lure unstuck or break the line. With mono/fluoro the line would often break within the first few tries and the lure would be gone. Hybrid is a tough line, im usually trying to pull the lure out for a few to 10 minutes (but im usually using 10lb +). It does break, but it takes alot more stress and time. More than often though i get the lure back still tied on, cant say the same with the other lines....

 

Plus if you tie the line somewhat not right the line can be what some guys call a burn? And the line gets very weak in that spot and will usually break very easily.

 

And it handles the elements and time very good, i would change my spools out yearly with mono, or twice a year with fluoro. I just changed the YZH out on a few reels this year after 1-3 years of use, being left out in a hot car most of the year, or in the cold garage the rest. And they had a ton of UV exposure as well.

They were still 100% functional, but from fishing the river they were very discolored, hence the new line being put on them.

 

For everything i mentioned, and the cost of $11 for 600 yards (which is usually $5.5 when i buy it on sale i just cant beat it.

 

Edited yesterday at 12:37 AM by MediumMouthBass

[BassKat]

At first, copolys lowered stretch and increased sensitivity compared to standard mono. I loved big game, but never turned back to it after Sensation. Later, fluorocarbon coated copolys sought to offer clarity closer to fluorocarbon with easier handling. I'm sure there are other pursued copoly concepts. They also tend to be affordable. 

 

Thanks to all for the input! I really appreciate it.

 

I'm excited about the consensus around YZH; I will definitely put it into testing immediately! 

 

A-Jay, I especially appreciate the video link. I'm going to also try Ultragreen.

 

F14A-B mentioned Pline CX being supple enough for spinning reels. That comment, and  zell_pop1's, made me realize I should have explained why I'm not a big fluorocarbon fan. It's two-fold...price and manageability, so I've got P-Line CX & Sufix Elite on the radar in case I need a more supple line.  

 

Really great discussion. Line is everything.

[Kev-mo]

I too am missing Defier Armilo... I liked McCoy Mean Green prior to Defier and that's probably what I'll go back to when I run out of Armilo. Might also try Big Game based on feedback on it here. 

[new2BC4bass]

Anyone who says fluorocarbon lines have little to no stretch has 1) never read TT's fluorocarbon line comparison reviews, and 2) never had to break fluorocarbon line from a snag.

 

I tried 10# P-Line Fluoroclear on a baitcast reel for a day (while visiting Florida).  Put the reel away and changed the line when I got back home.  It was breaking way too easy.  Maybe a bad spool?  I've successfully use 8# mono and co-polymer in several brands with no such problem.

 

I've read excellent things about CCX and Izorline Platinum for having great abrasion resistance.  I have some of each to test, but it will be on casting reels.  I have doubts that 10# would handle very well on a spinning reel.  I also have some Izorline XXX Super Co-Polymer to test in hopes it will be the best of both worlds...handle well and have good abrasion.

[islandbass]

@BassKat: I can tell you from experience that CX and CXX are very good lines. However, one thing that they do possess that you want is memory. They  get memory up the ying yang. 
 

However, that does not mean they’re bad lines. They great lines and I use both lines. Memory doesn’t bother me, especially because it doesn’t affect performance. 
 

As a mono user primarily for many things, there ain’t no such thing as a mono line that doesn’t eventually acquire memory. It is only a matter of time. With that said, if the monos I’ve tried, sufix in my humble opinion seems to acquire memory much slower that other comparable monos.  Both CX and CXX for me seem to acquire memory much faster. You can throw the Berkeley line, ande in that same camp. 

This has been just my own personal observations. like I said, memory doesn’t bother me one bit. 

[rangerjockey]

11 hours ago, MediumMouthBass said:

Monofilament has alot of stretch, not great for setting hooks when the line is out far, not much sensitivity either. Nor does it have good abrasion resistance. (also has a severe issue with line memory, although removing the spool with the fresh mono on it and soaking it in hot water will fix this most times, however after awhile it starts to get bad again deeper in the spool.

 

Fluorocarbon is very stiff and has some stretch or none of it depending on brand/series of line of course, its more sensitive and does better at setting the hook at distance (although braid would be the best for this). Usually has better abrasion resistance than mono, but gets sliced right through by pickerel, and doesnt hold up to rocks and zebra mussels as well as fluoro in the 20-40lb + range (again this is brand dependent). But everything budget friendly is junk, even some of the "good" stuff that costs $20 to spool 1 reel usually has some bad reviews too.

Some people have 0 issues with fluoro, where others its a nightmare and a mess if not treated properly. It also can be more prone to breaking (again depending on which brand).

 

Hybrid takes the best of both and combines it, while negating most of the issues that each type of line has at the same time. Just enough stretch to catch fish on moving baits (especially treble hooked ones), but enough stiffness and sensitivity to fish Texas rigs and jigs on the bottom.

YZH for me atleast has the best abrasion resistance ive ever used in all types of line, i fish many places with rocks and chain pickerel too. One place even has zebra mussels, which are known to destroy line.

 

It barely ever breaks either. Like when you are stuck in rocks and wood and are unable to retrieve the lure and have to pull on it to either get the lure unstuck or break the line. With mono/fluoro the line would often break within the first few tries and the lure would be gone. Hybrid is a tough line, im usually trying to pull the lure out for a few to 10 minutes (but im usually using 10lb +). It does break, but it takes alot more stress and time. More than often though i get the lure back still tied on, cant say the same with the other lines....

 

Plus if you tie the line somewhat not right the line can be what some guys call a burn? And the line gets very weak in that spot and will usually break very easily.

 

And it handles the elements and time very good, i would change my spools out yearly with mono, or twice a year with fluoro. I just changed the YZH out on a few reels this year after 1-3 years of use, being left out in a hot car most of the year, or in the cold garage the rest. And they had a ton of UV exposure as well.

They were still 100% functional, but from fishing the river they were very discolored, hence the new line being put on them.

 

For everything i mentioned, and the cost of $11 for 600 yards (which is usually $5.5 when i buy it on sale i just cant beat it.

 

Every line with the exception of braid has some stretch. 

[Bankbeater]

I started using Big Game after YZH became almost impossible to find around here.

[KSRonH]

I'm not a fan of fluorocarbon lines either and have tried all of the lines mentioned. I used to use YZH and still do somewhat but have used the Gamma Polyflex and prefer it over all others. It has a larger diameter than some but is very low memory. I also had issues with Fluoroclear breakage but the other P lines were ok. Give the Gamma a shot, I've switched several people over after trying it. Let me know your results, Thx Ron

[BassKat]

For those who fish a lot, perhaps also have kids that fish a lot, employ 5 to 8 rods (or more!), and like to freshen up their line fairly regularly. I typically reline at least seasonally after prespawn, spawn, summer (usually at least twice), and fall, copolys/super monos offer such a price advantage over fluorocarbon. 

 

I agree that memory is the most tolerable aspect of a given line. Defier Armilo wasn't exceptional in the memory department, but amazed in the strength-to-diameter and abrasion categories. On evaluating strength-to-diameter / abrasion, with most copolys that tend to have slightly larger diameters, we are forced into buying a power down (i.e. evaluating 10lb copoly v 12 lb traditional monos) and seeing if the line over delivers on strength to make it a wash. My concern so far has been how this relates to abrasion resistance. If the strength is there, but the smaller diameter compromises the abrasion resistance, I may turn back to Sensation. I think that it's just hard for me, at 52, to accept that the line technology I fished in high school/college is the line I should throw in 2025, especially after discovering Defier Armilo, which "was" (discontinued) the only running-away better option I've found. 

 

My hope to evaluate coploys that have smaller mono-like diameters is probably just laziness. It is absolutely plausible that a larger diameter copoly can be bought in a lower pound test and outperform a larger standard mono in BOTH strength and abrasion resistance. I think that for people who reserve braid for spinning and heavy vegetation, don't fish a lot of clear water, see fluorocarbon as decisively better than low-stretch coploys, or just don't want to tolerate the expense of FC, this is a very worthy discussion.  Thanks to all

[BassKat]

Similar to the guys at tackletour, it frustrates me when a company doesn't accurately match a line's true strength to its labeled strength. It doesn't make sense for a company to label a line with a diameter of .014" as 12lb if their .012" offering isn't breaking until 12+ lbs of force is applied. Why would they sell their line short from a strength-to-diamteter perspective? Makes no sense. Unfortunately, the skeptic in me says that they may do this because their abrasion resistance needs to be subsidized by a thicker diameter. That's why I believe this aspect is at the heart of the examination. 

[MediumMouthBass]

9 hours ago, rangerjockey said:

Every line with the exception of braid has some stretch. 

Sorry i didnt mean fluoro has 0% stretch, i was more trying to imply that compared to most mono lines it practically has none. (i know a certain line or 2 of fluoros are very stretchy and have poor reviews because of this, but im talking as a whole)

 

Just think, would the masses want to fish treble hooked crankbaits all day if money was on the line with fluoro?

No, because it doesnt have the same stretch, or for the opposite would anyone fish a jig or Texas rigs on the bottom with mono even if you had a super sensitive rod paired with tungsten weights and you could actually feel it? Still no because that lines got to much stretch.

(Big Game excluded since thats a pretty stiff mono)

 

I was trying to say that for all lines that arent braid hybrid is just that, a hybrid between the 2.

Best of both worlds.

 

[MN Fisher]

19 minutes ago, MediumMouthBass said:

Sorry i didnt mean fluoro has 0% stretch, i was more trying to imply that compared to most mono lines it practically has none. (i know a certain line or 2 of fluoros are very stretchy and have poor reviews because of this, but im talking as a whole)

I know that @FryDog62 did a test some years back that showed that most FC have more stretch than most monos. It's just that it takes more force to start them stretching. Also, mono rebounds where-as FC doesn't - once it stretches it's done.

Line that had the least stretch of all he tested?  YZH

[BassKat]

Although I fish high-end sensitive rods, I do fish lower stretch copolys for bottom contact applications, even though some fluorocarbons would be better. I guess it's impossible for me to say that I don't miss some extremely light bites, but I do catch a ton of fish, including very light bites. In a tournament scenario, I'd probably spool up some FC, but my baseline all-purpose line, even for bottom contact, will remain copoly / super mono for the reasons discussed.

[MediumMouthBass]

3 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

I know that @FryDog62 did a test some years back that showed that most FC have more stretch than most monos. It's just that it takes more force to start them stretching. Also, mono rebounds where-as FC doesn't - once it stretches it's done.

Line that had the least stretch of all he tested?  YZH

The fluoro part makes sense, mine barely ever had stretch until i got stuck on a rock, and i would put alot of force on that line, well until it almost always broke that is.

 

The part about YZH is interesting, did he test several different lb test lines?

 

I use YZH for about 70% of my spools both casting and spinning, for moving baits its all i use though (minus the 20-30lb big game for swimbaits). I throw cranks and liplesses on fast action rods paired with 10-12lb YZH and havent lost a bass yet from 2-10lbs on that combo (minus the first few when i had the drag locked down and tried to pull them right in).

 

Ive only tried a few different types of fluorocarbon, and monos so my personal experience with YZH makes it seem middle ground to me. So my knowledge on it isnt what others might have, and because im happy with hybrid i havent had any reason to further research, test, or invest in other lines to try.

[MN Fisher]

4 minutes ago, MediumMouthBass said:

did he test several different lb test lines?

Seems just one for all lines...and I was mistaken...YZH came in 2nd behind Trilene XT

@FryDog62 - Chris, you want to chime in here?

 

[rangerjockey]

2 hours ago, MediumMouthBass said:

Sorry i didnt mean fluoro has 0% stretch, i was more trying to imply that compared to most mono lines it practically has none. (i know a certain line or 2 of fluoros are very stretchy and have poor reviews because of this, but im talking as a whole)

 

Just think, would the masses want to fish treble hooked crankbaits all day if money was on the line with fluoro?

No, because it doesnt have the same stretch, or for the opposite would anyone fish a jig or Texas rigs on the bottom with mono even if you had a super sensitive rod paired with tungsten weights and you could actually feel it? Still no because that lines got to much stretch.

(Big Game excluded since thats a pretty stiff mono)

 

I was trying to say that for all lines that arent braid hybrid is just that, a hybrid between the 2.

Best of both worlds.

 

Would anyone fish flouro on a crank bait rod if money were on the line ? I've been doing it for 10 years or so.

I use Invisx or Tatsu 12 and 10 lb.