Catching big fish: Luck or Skill?

[Pumpkin Lizard]

Luck is just the collision of opportunity and preparation.

[Zcoker]

It’s also about mindset. Gotta think big bass in order to catch big bass. It wasn’t until I excepted that mindset that I finally started catching the big girls, catching them consistently. It’s kind of like the Super Bowl when a team makes up its mind to win. They’re gonna do just that—WIN! 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

3 hours ago, WRB said:

Fish are not high enough on the intellect scale to have a temper to be angry. Territorial protection shouldn’t be confused with anger.

Crayfish (crawdads) are high in protein as a food source, don’t know where your information is coming from?
The majority of giant bass caught in California were caught on live crawdads. I am an exception using jigs that replicate crawdads because jigs allowed me to cover more water and not anchor.

Tom

Steven Bardin and Bob Lusk along with a host of other state fishery biologist that do lots of podcasts and put lots of info on the web.

 

They all agree that Rainbow Trout are the highest protein meal a Bass can eat, and a Crawfish is near the bottom.     Gizzard Shad are near the top as well.    I doubt you'd agree that 1 adult Crawfish contains more protein than 1 adult Rainbow Trout or Gizzard Shad?

 

Bass prefer Crawfish over Bluegill 9-1 according to Steven Bardin.   The point I was trying to make is that Bass especially target Crawfish and I opined that's it's not because it's a great meal source, rather it's anger or "territorial" as you said. 

 

I'm not going to debate somebody who was there in regard to what the majority of big SoCal fish were taken on back in the day.    I can however say that I've listened to a ton of Butch Brown's interviews along with many other guys who were there on the Big Bass Podcast, and they all say trout chunkers accounted for many of those high teen class fish.   Butch said he would watch guys catch Trout in the lagoon and put them in livewells.

[Catt]

3 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

I doubt you'd agree that 1 adult Crawfish contains more protein than 1 adult Rainbow Trout or Gizzard Shad?

 

 

It's not that crawfish lack the protein, they lack the size, or they are not available in a high enough concentrations. 

 

Big bass are controlled by certain environmental factors

 

1. Reproduce effectively

 

2. Feed efficiently (maximize food intake and minimize energy output)

 

3. Prosper during extreme seasonal changes

 

4. Achieve good growth rates by domination of the warmer areas of the lake during the colder seasons.

 

This is a quote from Doug's book Big Bass Magic; I believe these to be rules that big bass must follow to survive

[AlabamaSpothunter]

Excellent stuff Catt, and #2 is at the heart of what I was talking about with regards to Crawfish.  

 

This was what I said to WRB:

 

"I totally agree with you about big Bass loving Crawfish, but one thing to note that's super interesting is that out of all the forage items Bass predate on, the Crawfish ranks near the bottom in terms of protein.   The current thought among biologists is that Bass predate on Crawfish less about hunger and more about anger."

 

Both things can be true.....Crawfish can be high in protein, but rank way down the list when it comes to the amount of total protein ingested vs many other common forage items.

[Pumpkin Lizard]

I used to Scuba dive and snorkel in lakes in the northeast. In the mornings you could always see tons of left over crayfish parts left over from the night before on the bottom. It looked like battlefield or something. Even more so in the rocky areas.

 

The crayfish hide in holes mostly during the day and they come out and feed and do their thing, and the fish hunt them like crazy. In my experience the places that have crayfish are virtually paved with them on the bottom. They are a great source of food.

 

One crayfish on it's own may not be a great source but if they can eat lots of them then they are a feast.

 

Not just bass but trout too.

 

 

 

[Catt]

6 minutes ago, Pumpkin Lizard said:

 

One crayfish on it's own may not be a great source but if they can eat lots of them then they are a feast.

 

How much bass relie on crawfish as a food source depends greatly on the body of water. Some bodies of water have a limited population while others hold vast amounts. 

 

Just a dumb Cajun's thought but I'm fairly certain the bass knows the predominate prey species in its body of water.

[Pumpkin Lizard]

27 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

How much bass relie on crawfish as a food source depends greatly on the body of water. Some bodies of water have a limited population while others hold vast amounts. 

 

Just a dumb Cajun's thought but I'm fairly certain the bass knows the predominate prey species in its body of water.

There are probably a crayfish or two in the bayou I would imagine lol. 

[senile1]

20 hours ago, A-Jay said:

IMO it boils down to Location, Timing, Presentation & Persistence ~  

 

This says it all.  As for skill or luck, the more skilled one becomes the more often his or her location, timing, presentation, and persistence will be optimum for catching a big bass.  As you develop your skills, luck should play less of a part in the big bass equation, though now and then it is nice to have luck on your side.  🙂

[Pat Brown]

13 hours ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Steven Bardin and Bob Lusk along with a host of other state fishery biologist that do lots of podcasts and put lots of info on the web.

 

They all agree that Rainbow Trout are the highest protein meal a Bass can eat, and a Crawfish is near the bottom.     Gizzard Shad are near the top as well.    I doubt you'd agree that 1 adult Crawfish contains more protein than 1 adult Rainbow Trout or Gizzard Shad?

 

Bass prefer Crawfish over Bluegill 9-1 according to Steven Bardin.   The point I was trying to make is that Bass especially target Crawfish and I opined that's it's not because it's a great meal source, rather it's anger or "territorial" as you said. 

 

I'm not going to debate somebody who was there in regard to what the majority of big SoCal fish were taken on back in the day.    I can however say that I've listened to a ton of Butch Brown's interviews along with many other guys who were there on the Big Bass Podcast, and they all say trout chunkers accounted for many of those high teen class fish.   Butch said he would watch guys catch Trout in the lagoon and put them in livewells.

 

 

Maybe - just maybe - It's a relative body mass index thing and the amount of protein you get per bite relative to the mass is very high with a crawfish. 

 

THAT - I would believe.  I see giant fish eating lots of tiny minnows too so maybe they just don't like big hard bones and stuff like that.  It might be more of like a relative protein to body mass index ratio thing.

 

I have also heard it said that bass have a long ingrained predisposition to hate crayfish and almost obsessive-compulsively kill them if they're in the area nearby.  

 

I think it could be possible for both of these things to be true and perhaps that is why jigs work so well!

[Mobasser]

Ive been down this road, and struck out. I devoted an entire season trying to beat my own PB of 8lbs, caught thirty years ago. I haven't given up yet, but I made the decision to fish as I always have, and have fun. Lots of good points made here.                                    My own observation is that guys who catch really big bass- there's little if any luck involved. They study the bass, and learn from experience when and where to fish, what baits work best at certain times, and how to fish these baits the best way.                                           My own lake is eight acres with very clear water. Some days, it's hard to catch a keeper, let alone a giant. They'res some in there. One day I'll hook one.

[Pumpkin Lizard]

21 minutes ago, Pat Brown said:

 

 

Maybe - just maybe - It's a relative body mass index thing and the amount of protein you get per bite relative to the mass is very high with a crawfish. 

 

THAT - I would believe.  I see giant fish eating lots of tiny minnows too so maybe they just don't like big hard bones and stuff like that.  It might be more of like a relative protein to body mass index ratio thing.

 

I have also heard it said that bass have a long ingrained predisposition to hate crayfish and almost obsessive-compulsively kill them if they're in the area nearby.  

 

I think it could be possible for both of these things to be true and perhaps that is why jigs work so well!

 

I think the really big bass got that way by being efficient. Better to eat one big meal, digest for a day or two or more and sulk as opposed to burning calories eating lots of little prey. They are lazy.

 

Now if there is a situation where there is plentiful, easy to catch small prey then the amount of effort may make it worth it.

 

I don't think they mind the hard bones. They probably need the calcium and the minerals.

[Pat Brown]

46 minutes ago, Pumpkin Lizard said:

 

I think the really big bass got that way by being efficient. Better to eat one big meal, digest for a day or two or more and sulk as opposed to burning calories eating lots of little prey. They are lazy.

 

Now if there is a situation where there is plentiful, easy to catch small prey then the amount of effort may make it worth it.

 

I don't think they mind the hard bones. They probably need the calcium and the minerals.

 

 

When available, bass will go for soft rayed fish 9/10 times.  They also go for slower species in general when available.

 

I definitely believe that bass eat whatever is easiest to eat and there's a lot of AKA opportunistic. 

 

If they got bluegill, they're going to eat bluegill even if it's not their favorite thing. 

 

I do think that if they have choices, the bigger bass typically will select the thing that they want the most to eat the same way that they do not select my lure when they recognize it!

 

I think like others have said - the big ones know where to be and when and are very good at feeding themselves with minimal risk, competition and effort.

[Pumpkin Lizard]

3 minutes ago, Pat Brown said:

 

 

When available, bass will go for soft rayed fish 9/10 times.  They also go for slower species in general when available.

 

I definitely believe that bass eat whatever is easiest to eat and there's a lot of AKA opportunistic. 

 

If they got bluegill, they're going to eat bluegill even if it's not their favorite thing. 

 

I do think that if they have choices, the bigger bass typically will select the thing that they want the most to eat the same way that they do not select my lure when they recognize it!

 

I think like others have said - the big ones know where to be and when and are very good at feeding themselves with minimal risk, competition and effort.

Where is the science on the soft rayed theory? 
 

I remember watching “The Nature of Fishing” on YouTube and he said that Largemouths evolved those big mouths because it made them more efficient at preying on bluegill and their relatives.

 

I also am not sold on the ancient war between the bass and crawdads. I think they will jump on them like a fat kid on a bag of Doritos when given the option. They just like to eat them.

[Pat Brown]

10 minutes ago, Pumpkin Lizard said:

Where is the science on the soft rayed theory? 
 

I remember watching “The Nature of Fishing” on YouTube and he said that Largemouths evolved those big mouths because it made them more efficient at preying on bluegill and their relatives.

 

I also am not sold on the ancient war between the bass and crawdads. I think they will jump on them like a fat kid on a bag of Doritos when given the option. They just like to eat them.

 

Steve Bardin and other prominent fisheries biologists and fisheries management types talk about it on bass after dark. You can listen if you want.

 

It's pretty interesting stuff and just more coal for the fire!  I'm not sure that it's always one way for every fish - I seen way too many peculiar individuals in my own fishing.

[Catt]

10 minutes ago, Pumpkin Lizard said:

 

I also am not sold on the ancient war between the bass and crawdads. I think they will jump on them like a fat kid on a bag of Doritos when given the option. They just like to eat them.

 

I've read surveys that suggest if given an equal opportunity & adequate number a bass will eat crawfish first.  

 

We have to keep in mind what is the predominate prey species is in your body of water. In some bodies of water this could be a single species or multiple species. 

 

Down on the Gulf Coast we fish a lot of brackish water & grass shrimp are a huge portion of a bass's diet. These shrimp are only an inch or an inch & half long but there's millions of em. 

[Pat Brown]

9 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

I've read surveys that suggest if given an equal opportunity & adequate number a bass will eat crawfish first.  

 

We have to keep in mind what is the predominate prey species is in your body of water. In some bodies of water this could be a single species or multiple species. 

 

Down on the Gulf Coast we fish a lot of brackish water & grass shrimp are a huge portion of a bass's diet. These shrimp are only an inch or an inch & half long but there's millions of em. 

 

 

Every single year I see the mayflies hatch and I see panfish AND double digit bass return to the trees for this event and everyone eats those little guys while it's happening.  I personally think it's a mother's milk situation.  They all got started on mayflies at one point in time.  I think the big girls snag a crappie or two while they're in the area and don't make a big fuss about it also but they're definitely munching the bugs too.  🙂

[Catt]

To this dumb Coonass if ya wanna increase your skill level at catching bass of any size, learn your predominate prey species. Learn what they do morning, noon, & night. Winter, spring, summer, & fall.

[Swamp Girl]

There are members at Bass Resource who state that they target big bass. If you sit on the deep water abutting the spawning beds like some of us do or pounded Castaic Lake in its glory years like @WRBdid or chuck and wind big swimbaits like @Fried Lemons does, then you're targeting big bass and have a big bass portfolio like @Fried Lemons's, Tom's, @AlabamaSpothunter's, @Catt's, @Pat Brown's, Andy's, etc., then you do indeed target big bass. 

 

I'm not part of the Big Bass Crew, but I do catch big bass for my nearly 45 degrees latitude. My approach is to catch a lot of bass and the big bass will come. I average about one four-pounder for every 30 bass. Remember that In-Fisherman said that a bass weighing X in the north is equivalent to a bass weighing 1.5X in the South. If In-Fisherman is right, my four-pounders are Everglades six-pounders and my six-pounders are Texas nine-pounders and my PB is a southern California DD. So, a northern four-pounder is a fine catch. Just ask Minnesotan @gim or Canadian @The Baron, who know how rare they are up north.

 

My approach is basically attrition. I dance with a lot of bass and sooner or later, I dance with a big gal. And some sweet mornings, I get to dance with five or six big gals, but along the way, I get to dance and dance and dance. I do know at least three spots that harbor big bass and when I'm casting at those three specific spots, I'm absolutely fishing for big bass, but otherwise, I'm just fishing and hoping and happy.

[Pumpkin Lizard]

1 hour ago, Pat Brown said:

 

Steve Bardin and other prominent fisheries biologists and fisheries management types talk about it on bass after dark. You can listen if you want.

 

It's pretty interesting stuff and just more coal for the fire!  I'm not sure that it's always one way for every fish - I seen way too many peculiar individuals in my own fishing.

They love eating yellow perch too.

[Fried Lemons]

On 2/10/2025 at 3:55 AM, KSanford33 said:

I’ve tried using big baits only to catch fish that were barely bigger than the lure.

When you say big, how big are we talking? I fish swimbaits a lot and one thing I've noticed is nothern guys tend to want to throw the 6-7" baits because they think their fish aren't big enough to tackle the true big baits. I've had the most success with baits in the 8-10" range. My most productive glide bait is a Deps 250. This may be counterintuitive but when the fish are really eating big baits you get more bites by upsizing instead of downsizing. 

[Swamp Girl]

I'm going to combine @Fried Lemons you-need-to-fish-bigger-baits and @Zcoker's you-need-to-think-you're-going-to-catch-bigger-bass and cast a 24-foot swimbait that @Bazoo will whittle to catch the world's first 60' lmb! Sadly, it will sink my canoe and I'll become tangled in the line and be taken to Davy Jones's Locker, but I'll go down fighting just like this guy:

 

 

 

[Logan S]

I'm not arrgoant enough to think all of my big bass were because of my outstanding skill at catching them....Or even the majority of them.  I think for every big bass you catch there's a ratio of skill to luck, because even with things like FFS or sight fishing, you never REALLY know what's going to happen when hit the water that day.  

 

I can feel good about a handful of big bass I've caught that were much higher on the skill side of that ratio...And it also feels good when I just happen to bonk my jig on the head of a 6lber on the 87th dock I've skipped that day.

[Kev-mo]

All things being equal... on a body of water that has big fish, you've done your research etc. I'd say the first big fish is luck and any subsequent large fish start leaning toward the skill side of things.

 

As far as tilting the odds in my favor... timing is the first thing that comes to mind. Rinse and repeat. If I caught big fish on X under Y conditions at Z time of year I will for sure be trying that again. Fish when the fish are more maybe a little less wary pre spawn, post spawn fall feedbag, stained water. Fish when others don't, nighttime, less than ideal weather (while being safe), etc.

[Swamp Girl]

19 minutes ago, Kev-mo said:

I'd say the first big fish is luck and any subsequent large fish start leaning toward the skill side of things.

 

I like this and it might be why I prefer five four-pounders to one six-pounder. I can luck into bonking a six-pounder on the head by chance, but to land a bag of bigger bass requires cracking the code...for that day...at that pond/lake/bog.