My buddy is trying to argue that catch and release & the assumed overpopulation this causes is negatively impacting the number of big fish caught more than delayed mortality and fishing pressure

[Ohioguy25]

I’m not exactly sure where his head space is at but there is absolutely no way this is accurate.  I have read for years now that delayed mortality is woefully understated. The increasing number of tournaments and exponential rise in pressure have undoubtedly impacted bass populations all over the globe.

 

Yet he is suggesting that somehow the negligible difference made in available forage by not keeping fish is anywhere close to this, let alone more significant?

[MN Fisher]

I'm a great believer in Al Lindner's 'Selective Harvest'...which is what I think this guy is pointing towards.

 

I know some of the tournaments on Minnetonka take great care to make sure all the fish are released healthy and not at the same point - they have pontoon boats with 500-gallon tanks with recirc and oxygenation that cruise to up to five different spots on the lake to release. So tournament mortality has been severely reduced at these events...and more are taking the same route.

[A-Jay]

You really do need some new friends.

😎

A-Jay

 

[Pumpkin Lizard]

34 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

I’m not exactly sure where his head space is at but there is absolutely no way this is accurate.  I have read for years now that the delayed mortality is woefully understated. The increasing number of tournaments and exponential rise in pressure have undoubtedly impacted bass populations all over the globe.

 

Yet he is suggesting that somehow the negligible difference made in available forage by not keeping fish is anyone close to this, let alone more significant?

I think in some non pressured private waters a lack of harvest can cause imbalanced population. I saw it happen at my own pond.

 

This recent Auburn study however suggests dire consequences to the fishing quality due to tournaments.with delayed mortality being a huge culprit.

 

https://www.si.com/onsi/fishing/bass-fishing/843000-dollar-bass-mortality-study-coosa-river-al-fishing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WRB]

Ponds are small and the ecosystem fragile for predators like bass. Over population vs prey supply impacts ponds quickly.

Lake are larger bodies of water with a diverse  ecosystem with more predator fish the bass competes with to survive, over population isn’t a problem imo.

I occasionally get the opportunity  to fish private lakes without any fish management and very little fishing pressure. These lakes are well balanced producing bass of all sizes including big healthy bass. A few of these water storage lakes are approaching 100 years old.

Regarding  C & R with bass stored in livewells for hours there is a higher post release mortality rate then most bass anglers recognize. Trophy or PB bass often end up being shown off and over stressed/ handled ending dead. Over population in lakes isn’t the issue imo .

Tom

[AlabamaSpothunter]

1. Aging reservoirs with decaying cover.

 

2. Heavy tournament pressure which unproportionally negatively effects both aggressive fish, and larger female fish.   We're essentially speed running evolution and culling out the most aggressive fish, along with many of the largest fish.   

 

3.  State fish and game agencies, power companies, and governments implementing incredibly destructive practices like spraying aquatic vegetation with chemicals, radically manipulating water pool levels, and stocking very harmful competitive fish species like Striped Bass.   

 

I'd rank those 3 reasons way above the practice of not culling enough small Bass when it comes to why our lakes and rivers are producing measurably less quality and large Bass.    

 

Now on small lakes and ponds, catch and release has ruined more of them than any other single factor.     It's just not a factor in a lake the size of Toledo Bend.   Oliver Ngy has some really great videos on his youtube channel discussing this issue.    In one video he goes on a shock study with CA fish and game folks.    

2 hours ago, WRB said:

Ponds are small and the ecosystem fragile for predators like bass. Over population vs prey supply impacts ponds quickly.

Lake are larger bodies of water with a diverse  ecosystem with more predator fish the bass competes with to survive, over population isn’t a problem imo.

I occasionally get the opportunity  to fish private lakes without any fish management and very little fishing pressure. These lakes are well balanced producing bass of all sizes including big healthy bass. A few of these water storage lakes are approaching 100 years old.

Regarding  C & R with bass stored in livewells for hours there is a higher post release mortality rate then most bass anglers recognize. Trophy or PB bass often end up being shown off and over stressed/ handled ending dead. Over population in lakes isn’t the issue imo .

Tom

As a sport, we must stop this incredibly shallow and stupid practice of boxing big fish just so we can take a stupid social media selfie!

 

Seeing a guy ride around all day with 8-10lb fish in the box so he can get his 40lb end of the day glamour shot is perhaps my biggest pet peeve in the sport.   It really does disgust me.

 

It's the exact opposite of what Doug Hannon taught us to do with the big special rare specimens.    It's a shameful practice.   

[Swamp Girl]

@Pat Brown: Would you classify the 169-acre pond where I own property as little and in need of culling or big and just fine on its own?

[Pat Brown]

28 minutes ago, Swamp Girl said:

@Pat Brown: Would you classify the 169-acre pond where I own property as little and in need of culling or big and just fine on its own?

 

 

I don't think you can possibly hurt a healthy fishery by culling fish - from what I understand it's just standard practice for places that charge a lot of money for people to trophy hunt.  The difference between a managed fishery and an unmanaged fishery.

 

Will nature produce freak fish on its own?  Sure.

 

Will it produce a lot more freak fish a lot more frequently with very deliberate help from people who cull small fish?  Yes.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

Short of an actual shock study Katie, using your relative weight chart and the fish you catch is the best tool/gauge you have for determining that.    If the fish in your lake are like the typical fish you post, I'd say the lake is perfectly okay and doesn't really need any culling.    You rarely if ever catch a bunch of fat 3-4lb fish from overpopulated small lakes.     If it's a problem, usually all the fish you catch are dinks and are skinny.     

 

Your right around the size where a body of water kind of self regulates itself.   My home lake is about that size......the current biologist and manager of the lake doesn't believe we should cull any Bass, while biologists with the company who came out and did a shock study on it last March wanted us to remove a number of small Bass, and Crappie.     My thought is that we should be culling the smaller Spotted Bass at minimum, but ultimately we must manage the fishery for all anglers, not just the trophy Bass anglers.     Right now it's a pretty good balance, lots of fish to catch for lower skill anglers, and enough outlier trophy caliber fish to appease folks like myself.   I have no doubts though that if we started culling the small Bass extensively, we'd have significantly more and larger top end fish.     

[Junk Fisherman]

Tournament fishermen are fooling themselves if they don't think tournaments and delayed mortality are negatively impacting tournament waters.  I'm glad that my club has moved almost exclusively to paper tournaments.  

[gim]

5 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

I know some of the tournaments on Minnetonka take great care to make sure all the fish are released healthy and not at the same point - they have pontoon boats with 500-gallon tanks with recirc and oxygenation that cruise to up to five different spots on the lake to release. So tournament mortality has been severely reduced at these events...and more are taking the same route.

 

The problem is that's not the standard across the spectrum.  Most leagues and amateur tournaments do nothing close to that because they aren't able to.  They don't have the manpower or funding for it.

 

I'm generally ok with a weigh in at a central location outside of two time periods: 1) spawn, and 2) midsummer.  There's absolutely no reason to pluck fish off their beds and haul them around in a live well while they're trying to reproduce.  Nor is it justified during midsummer when the water is above 75 degrees.

 

And although I don't keep a lot of fish to eat, I'm ok with selective harvest of smaller bass.

[Swamp Girl]

41 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

If the fish in your lake are like the typical fish you post, I'd say the lake is perfectly okay and doesn't really need any culling. 

 

They are fat. One after another after another are footballs. Just not long, topping out at about 18.5", but I did have one hit that moved so much water that I'm thinking the pond might hold a kraken or two.

 

My problem is that I'm not a fan of eating bass. I'm spoiled by walleye and yellow perch. I invite others to keep bass, but I don't think that's happening...much. I suppose I could keep some to fertilize my garden. I think Native Americans did that. 

 

 

 

 

[gim]

1 hour ago, Swamp Girl said:

My problem is that I'm not a fan of eating bass. I'm spoiled by walleye and yellow perch.

 

I ate a lot of those growing up.  And some northern pike too.  They're all better eating than bass.

 

Maybe you need to lather them up in more batter, deep fry the crap out of them, and dip them in tartar sauce lol

[Team9nine]

8 hours ago, Ohioguy25 said:

My buddy is trying to argue that catch and release & the assumed overpopulation this causes is negatively impacting the number of big fish caught more than delayed mortality and fishing pressure

 

It probably varies from water to water as to which of those factors listed plays the more important role in big fish decline, and in many cases, it is likely some combination of all of them, but he ain't wrong, generally speaking. It is definitely a factor.

[Functional]

16 hours ago, Swamp Girl said:

 

They are fat. One after another after another are footballs. Just not long, topping out at about 18.5", but I did have one hit that moved so much water that I'm thinking the pond might hold a kraken or two.

 

My problem is that I'm not a fan of eating bass. I'm spoiled by walleye and yellow perch. I invite others to keep bass, but I don't think that's happening...much. I suppose I could keep some to fertilize my garden. I think Native Americans did that. 

 

 

 

 

I like bass personally, but for fish that have little flavor for me I typically use in fish tacos. A lot of seasoning and then mixed with the other stuff you put in a fish taco blends well. You dont need a particularly strong flavor for them. Pull the filets for eating and the rest mix in with your garden. 

[TnRiver46]

Delayed mortality and harvest are the same

result for the fish, dead 

 

a certain amount of fish are going to die every year no matter what kills them, look up consumptive mortality 

 

Almost all fish will stop growing at some point in their life, just because you release a 2 lb fish doesn’t not mean it will get bigger. Many of them can live for many years at the same size 

 

Mother Nature is way smarter than public opinion at this point in our society, you’re just arguing with your friend to make noises. Neither of you will ever know who was right or wrong 

[Bluebasser86]

IMO, weigh in tournaments should be a thing of the past. The delayed mortality loses a lot of weight when you’re not bringing them in, but guys have to be able to show them to you when they catch one so they aren’t going away I suppose. 
 

We aren’t keeping enough bass as a whole. I wish I liked to eat them, I’d keep them all the time, but they taste awful. Keeping a limit of small fish is never going to hurt the population of the lake. 

[Tackleholic]

I would like to see tournaments begin a No Cull rule;  that would really upset the apple cart, but add a new challenge and save a lot of mortality.

[padon]

ive listened to several biologists on national podcasts over the last couple years and they all agree, that as a whole we are not keeping enough fish. im sure it varies from fishery to fishery but with catch and release so ingrained in bass fishermen we dont harvest enough fish. now what they would like is for us to keep them between 12 and 15 or so inches. I dont keep bass so its not gonna happen for me but when i see somebody keep a few in that size range i dont let it bother me. Also the absolute best thing that can happen to you lake is for it to have grass and for some moron not to kill the grass.

[MN Fisher]

15 minutes ago, padon said:

ive listened to several biologists on national podcasts over the last couple years and they all agree,

This hasn't changed since I took classes for my Aquatic Biology major back in the late 70s. Al started his 'Selective Harvest' spiel back in the mid 70s....nobody listens anymore and they should.

[Mbirdsley]

I really wish Michigan would institute a slot limit for bass.  A lot of the lakes that I fish in Central and Mid- Michigan are inundated with 12-17 inch bass. I'd much rather have a small to medium size fish of given species to eat rather than the bigger specimens. This includes panfish. Problem is though is that most people in this state chase walleye, salmon, and trout. Which are better eating.   

 

I would like to see all tournaments go away from dragging fish to a weigh Ins.  Eventually the non- fishing public will force the issue through state legislation. 

[Pat Brown]

Honestly bass isn't that bad - it is a lot better with some corn bread batter and a little tartar but what isn't!?!?

 

Also fertilizing plants/liberating baby ducklings/feeding herons and turtles etc are all actually great uses for a dead 12-15" bass.

[Dwight Hottle]

I agree with Tom's @WRB answer that catch & release has a negative influence on ponds & smaller bodies of water. Larger lakes don't seem to suffer from catch & release or delayed mortality from being caught. 

[Pumpkin Lizard]

7 hours ago, Mbirdsley said:

I really wish Michigan would institute a slot limit for bass.  A lot of the lakes that I fish in Central and Mid- Michigan are inundated with 12-17 inch bass. I'd much rather have a small to medium size fish of given species to eat rather than the bigger specimens. This includes panfish. Problem is though is that most people in this state chase walleye, salmon, and trout. Which are better eating.   

 

I would like to see all tournaments go away from dragging fish to a weigh Ins.  Eventually the non- fishing public will force the issue through state legislation. 

It seems that with technology, weigh ins should be a thing of the past.

[Ohioguy25]

2 hours ago, Dwight Hottle said:

I agree with Tom's @WRB answer that catch & release has a negative influence on ponds & smaller bodies of water. Larger lakes don't seem to suffer from catch & release or delayed mortality from being caught. 

How about rivers