Where Do All The Big Fish Dissapear To

[papajoe222]

Swamp Girl's topic on percentage of big bass got me to thinking We have a power plant lake up here that consistently produced 5lb smallmouth. Then, for some reason, the smallmouth population and the majority of big largemouth dissapeared. There's a natural, deep lake in northern Indiana where I know there were some bass over 6lb as I caught them on a fairly regular basis until about five years ago. There are only three houses on this lake and because of it's super clear water, the few locals that fish there only do so in the spring and late fall.  That particular lake still gives up some nice largemouth and an occasional bowfin that fights harder than any catfish of its size. I have an idea there was a big fish kill on that power plant lake a few summers ago due to high water temps. and low O2 levels, but the other lake stumps me as it isn't fed by a stream and it isn't connected to any other body of water. Anyone have this happen to a lake they frequent?

[Pat Brown]

I don't know if this is the same situation you're describing necessarily - but I have noticed that on smaller bodies of water, fish seem to change their spots a lot.  You can catch em REALLY good in an area and it might be a year or two before that area fires like that again.

 

Just depends on how hard they get hammered on and how small the lake is and how long of a break they get every year etc.

[MediumMouthBass]

3 hours ago, papajoe222 said:

Anyone have this happen to a lake they frequent?

I too have a lake right next to a powerplant, small in size, about 100 yards across. Very narrow lake, only a few deep spots (deep being 10')

I caught almost every PB largemouth from it. Biggest was a 10, but im thinking theres even bigger in it.

Last year i only fished a few times, but each time there was 0 activity. Years prior atleast there would be jumping, bass on beds, etc....

Didnt see any of it, and the few bass i caught were small and under 3lbs. 

 

Whats odd is that in the winter-spring the water used to be blueish green and crystal clear down to 6' (which in most parts was bottom), and 0 weeds. Last year i noticed early in the spring the water was dirty, about 6"-1' clarity, and weeds/grass all over.

We had a mild winter so that might be the reason for vegetation being everywhere.

 

There werent any reports of fish dieing, and they didnt get on a bus and go elsewhere. And theres only 1 spot on this very underfished lake thats deep enough. but they arent there anymore either😌

3 hours ago, Pat Brown said:

You can catch em REALLY good in an area and it might be a year or two before that area fires like that again.

This speaks to me, every time i went it would be the same spot. Like clockwork. And then nothing the past year.

[Susky River Rat]

Interesting topic. I tend to catch bigger March to June  and sept thru November. Can’t really say what happens. Just like walleye in the river over the summer they are super rare but, the cold months you can get them mixed right in with the smallmouth.

[king fisher]

This has happened to me many times over the years, for all species of fish.  After going over my log books, talking to fellow anglers, and reading all of the fisheries biologist reports, I am convinced I have found an answer.  Aliens don't want to take over humanity, they only want our big fish.  Next time all you catch is dinks, don't look down in into the water for you answer, look up to the stars.

[Jar11591]

I’ve heard otters or muskrats can completely decimate the big fish in waters where these mammals make a home. One of the lakes I fish used to be known for so many big bass. My buddy caught his NYS PB of over 7 pounds, plus many 5-6 pounders were frequent. But the last 10 years it’s given up nothing over 4lb, and it’s impossible to not notice all the otters scurry along the bank and swim in the shallows. The only thing I can go off of why the big fish disappeared is the otters. 

[Swamp Girl]

24 minutes ago, king fisher said:

This has happened to me many times over the years, for all species of fish.  After going over my log books, talking to fellow anglers, and reading all of the fisheries biologist reports, I am convinced I have found an answer.  Aliens don't want to take over humanity, they only want our big fish.  Next time all you catch is dinks, don't look down in into the water for you answer, look up to the stars.

 

Man, you are one funny guy!

 

I agree with @Susky River Rat that this is an interesting topic and I think that @papajoe222's lake is an especially interesting lake because the usual culprits aren't in play, such as heavy pressure that educates the bass (@AlabamaSpothunter, a heckuva stick, is a strong believer in bass learning our lures.) or development, which Maine Fish & Wildlife says is the major predictor of water quality. I just told Alex that the frogs hurt my ears at the pond where I caught my PB and since frogs are the first to go when water quality goes, that pond is healthy, thus producing thick bass (I share one of them below. Yes, it's not a long fish, but it shows how this pond is humming.). All this has me thinking that it's a eco-health issue if a flotilla of anglers aren't educating the fish.

 

 

I've caught some at this pond that are even fatter than the bass above, but I've have to look through a lot of photos to find them.

 

4 minutes ago, Jar11591 said:

I’ve heard otters or muskrats can completely decimate the big fish in waters where these mammals make a home.

 

This is a strong possibility. I used to fish a nearby bog and average 30 to 40 bass, but the last time I went, I had three or four otters swimming beside me and there were far fewer bass and they were smaller too. I haven't returned. 

[Pat Brown]

There's a small handful of presentations out there I think you can trick a smart fish with more than once but I think they do learn to recognize threats and not food quickly.

 

The term 'reaction strike' gets overused - but I think this is often your best bet with smart fish.

 

Your cat may be a very very smart cat and very well mannered but you toss a ball of twine past her face and she gonna go full on tiger mode and snatch that thing out of thin air like it was nothing.

 

Same deal.

 

With that in mind - it becomes a matter of timing and location - both can be very specific for smart big fish on smaller waters.

 

All stuff I've definitely observed.

 

You could think a place has no fish until you make a cast at the northwest bank at 4:30 am during a new moon in February.

 

And then you might be very pleasantly surprised!

 

😉😉😉👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 

 

Play around with night fishing.  Early morning fishing.  Try deeper and shallower.  Try going very fast and very slow.  Very small and very big.

 

Extremes pay off when fish have seen every version of medium on the planet.

 

Big fish get big by being smart - not stupid.  They learn how to not get caught or die for years and are very good at feeding themselves.  

 

This is what makes catching them a feverish pursuit and super rewarding!

[Team9nine]

Sometimes you have strong year classes of bass that move through the system. My friend lived on an old 38 acre former gravel pit that had been flooded and turned into a housing addition. The bass fishing was great for years, with numerous 3-6 pound bass routinely caught. And then, within a year or two, the big bass all but disappeared. Still plenty of little bass to be caught, but almost never a fish over 3 lbs. You can have a good year class of northern bass live for 10-15 years in some cases, all topping out around that same high end size, but eventually they all die, often around that same max age.

 

The other thought that comes to mind is some type of change in the food base. To get big requires appropriate sized food available in numbers at all critical life stages of a bass’s life. In small waters, this seems to be especially critical, and often limiting, at around the 3 pound stage. Paul Roberts has some good old posts on this subject you could dig through, but something in the food chain might have crashed, suddenly limiting the ability of bass to make that next critical leap in growth. It could easily go unnoticed, too.

 

And then, never discount even a few homeowners doing something to change the biological makeup of a given lake by their actions. If you’re not on a body of water constantly, it’s easy to miss a short term kill or die-off that would likely go unreported for a variety of reasons.

[gim]

I was about to comment on the year class thing but @Team9nine beat me to it.  Sometimes there are really good spawning conditions and survivability, sometimes not.

 

Winterkill can play a big role up here in the winter time.  A long winter with a lot of snow on the ice reduces sunlight and reduces oxygen levels in some shallower lakes.  That occured here in 2022-2023.

 

Right now the panfish populations are being hammered due to an exponential increase in ice fishing pressure this winter.  A thick, safe base of ice has increased ice fishing pressure by 56% this year compared to the last several.  No crappie, sunfish, or perch is safe.

[Swamp Girl]

40 minutes ago, Pat Brown said:

The term 'reaction strike' gets overused - but I think this is often your best bet with smart fish.

 

Your cat may be a very very smart cat and very well mannered but you toss a ball of twine past her face and she gonna go full on tiger mode and snatch that thing out of thin air like it was nothing.

 

Same deal.

 

Pat, I really think you should have your own fishing show. Your analogy above is yet the latest proof that you're a natural teacher. 

 

40 minutes ago, Pat Brown said:

Play around with night fishing.  Early morning fishing.  Try deeper and shallower.  Try going very fast and very slow.  Very small and very big.

 

Extremes pay off when fish have seen every version of medium on the planet.

 

Big fish get big by being smart - not stupid.  They learn how to not get caught or die for years and are very good at feeding themselves.  

 

^More^ top tier teaching. Thanks, Pat.

 

You're the best.

[N Florida Mike]

It happened in my small lake recently. I was catching fish over 8 pounds until about 4 years ago, and it just stopped. The next 3 years only 2 that were just over 4. Here are my possible explanations.

1. Someone began catching and keeping them all of a sudden. I would say this is 100% not the reason. I do 90% of all the fishing done here. Only a few people bass fish, and they don’t go often. I know them personally, and we are friends and catch/release all the big females.

2. They somehow escaped through a drain or outflow. That is a small chance because our lake is lower than the outflows. Only during a heavy rain does it wash out instead of in. Even if some did wash out, not all , most , or many would.

3. A fish kill due to loss of oxygen or chemicals for weed spraying. We haven’t had one since 2011, which is a whole nother story.

4 Otters. This is my conclusion. I started seeing an otter occasionally starting a couple years ago. He hasn’t been back now in months, so I’m starting to catch bigger fish again.

That may be your problem, but on a big lake they have plenty of areas to hide. I’m betting they are still there but you just haven’t found them. 
 

[SkippinJimmy]

12 hours ago, papajoe222 said:

There's a natural, deep lake in northern Indiana where I know there were some bass over 6lb as I caught them on a fairly regular basis until about five years ago.

How big is the lake?  Are you still catching numbers?  

[softwateronly]

We've had threads on carrying capacity of bodies of water that seem to speak to me in terms of the issues described by @papajoe222.  Does the lake just need time for a successful spawning class to emerge and fill those 5-6lb top predator positions, like a 5-10year cycle up here in the north?  Does the lake have a forage bottleneck preventing older successful bass finding enough calories to continue growing?  Did the base of the food pyramid change due to water quality issues lowering the overall carrying capacity? 

 

The best one would be just a change in behavior due to more or different feeding opportunities that are hiding the fish from you.  Spending a whole lot of time on the water in early spring should be able to give you an answer because the big girls will go "shallow" to spawn.

 

scott

[Zcoker]

I don’t fish much in the daytime because it’s simply much harder to trick or fool those big wise older fish. They know what’s up and can see much better than us what’s coming at them. They’re there, for sure, always have been. That’s how they got so big in the first place, by knowing very well what’s up in their environment. I wouldn’t say that they die off or disappear, they simply aren’t gonna let ya catch them. 

 

[papajoe222]

6 hours ago, SkippinJimmy said:

How big is the lake?  Are you still catching numbers?  

The lake is fairly small, I'd say maybe 125 acres, but it's deep, 55ft. at it's deepest. My best guess is the meat fishermen depleted the panfish population to a point where the bass didn't continue to grow. That doesn't explain the absence of bigger bass. The big fish did change their location preference during the summer, opting for the heavy growth of lilypads over the deeper structure. I was able to adapt and still catch some. Now, even after ice-out, I can locate and catch smaller fish. It's been five years since I boated anything over 4lb. there. I doubt my inability to adapt to changes is the reason, but I just may have lost my touch.

[SkippinJimmy]

1 hour ago, papajoe222 said:

I just may have lost my touch.

I highly doubt that is the case.  
 

Since there is little pressure, maybe you could track your catches using something like a relative weight calculation?  It wouldn’t be overly scientific but it may help highlight a potential issue around overpopulation or a forage issue.  There is likely nothing you could do about it if there is an issue are but at least you would know you haven’t lost your touch.

[DaubsNU1]

I think we are missing one large data point...

 

Old fish die.

[MediumMouthBass]

3 hours ago, DaubsNU1 said:

I think we are missing one large data point...

 

Old fish die.

This is a very sad, but highly realistic outcome.

 

Think about how old these fish are, anywhere aside from CA/north of TX, AL, GA, LA, FL, these big bass take a very long time to grow to these sizes.

Thats a very hard life to live too, constantly struggling to find food in the never ending fight against larger panfish, birds, big trout, smallmouth, walleyes, pike, pickerel, musky, catfish, and other big bass along with the smaller ones. Lakes being treated with chemicals, being over fished/underpopulated or under fished/overpopulated, oxygen levels changing, etc....

 

Then the stress they are put under being caught, the 5-10 minutes they are held out of water waiting for the local youtubers cameraman to get the perfect shot, and then tossed back in. Plus the much colder winters too.

[Fried Lemons]

One thing that rarely gets talked about is that it takes careful management via selective harvest to keep a small pond producing big fish year after year. A good pond left to its own devices will eventually become overcrowded with stunted fish.

[WRB]

The boom and bust cycle happens everywhere bass live. 
A year class that had  exceptional recruitment along with abundant prey source combined with good water conditions starts the growth cycle of healthy young bass. Anglers don’t target these young bass but other predators do.

About 5 to 8 years after this exceptional year class hatched they are big adults that anglers target and catch reducing the population numbers another few years until this year class passes starting the bust cycle. A good ecosystem can sustain several exception recruitment year classes, Usually large well managed fisheries.

We in SoCal suffer from poor to no fishery management and drought cycles with boom and bust cycles being common.

Tom

 

[Fishing_Rod]

Greetings All,

 

Great stuff! Frankly speaking, I'm still casting like a madman trying to win that lottery! The recent warm trend does make it more comfortable to be out there casting like a madman.

 

OK, all kidding aside, I do all right when it comes to catching. I do concur with the observed cycles of fish populations associated to the quality of fish caught. One of the regional lakes here is going through a time where finding a significantly larger than typical bass is a real challenge. Getting bit is not. I'm catching a lot of bass but they are mainly yearlings or adolescent sized. Fortunately, all of them appear healthy and seem to be thriving. So it supports the population cycle theme. I am grateful for every fish that is "on-line" so I'll simply keep casting.

 

I'm still trying for that lottery win! Be well, Cheers!

[Bluebasser86]

One of the power plant lakes here got LMBV, which mainly kills off the larger bass. Use to be a lot of largemouth and smallmouth, but the population crashed because a majority of the fish in the lake were larger, adults. Now, it's difficult to get bites most days on the lake. The upside is the fish that survive are supposedly resistant to the virus and will pass those genes onto their offspring and hopefully prevent it from happening again in the future. 

[txchaser]

Here in Texas we are having serious otter problems. Multiple biologists have shared that they are very aggressive and sometimes kill for sport. They see more impact on the larger fish than the smaller ones. 

Apparently the skins used to be worth something and they were trapped, and that has almost completely stopped. 

IMO they are as bad for a body of water as cormorants.