How much better can reels get?

[redmeansdistortion]

43 minutes ago, SkippinJimmy said:

I was simply responding to another post where the term was used.  I never made a value judgement and think people have a pretty clear understanding of what frugal means.  If you felt I was in any way placing any type of judgement, my apologies.

Understood, no judgement felt on my end.  To add to my above post, frugality doesn't mean buying the high end stuff either, lots of great value reels are in the sweet spot, that $100 to $300 range.  In general, that is where you strike a happy medium between durability and parts availability.  Even then, some manufacturers, like Daiwa and Shimano, will only keep stock of parts for the higher end stuff long after production ends or the model gets revised.  Abu Garcia, prior to being bought by Sycamore Partners in 2018, still kept stock of parts for every Swedish made reel in their catalog.  Now they don't reproduce parts for reels designed prior to 1997, so this eliminated production of parts for reels from the classic era, pre-1979.  

 

That said, it is worth mentioning the BFS crowd.  Lots, and I mean lots of them buy seemingly every reel from the fly-by-night manufacturers in China.  In the same breath, they will proclaim they can't afford a JDM or USDM reel, while posting a picture of a dozen $50-$100 Ming Yangs, Tsurinoyas, or something along those lines.  Some of them will then spend another $10 to $20 on a set of bearings plus other parts.  At that point, they could've had 2 or 3 reels from more reputed manufacturers.  Granted, I don't see any of that going on here, that's more of a Facebook thing.  I won't mention any YouTube channels, but some are influencers who drive sales of those reels.  One I talk to regularly supplements his income reviewing and doing open box videos of CDM BFS reels.  Some of them do perform well, but durability and parts availability are questionable.  I've serviced some of them on occasion, and there are almost always corners cut somewhere.

[bulldog1935]

19 hours ago, SkippinJimmy said:

I was simply responding to another post where the term was used.  I never made a value judgement and think people have a pretty clear understanding of what frugal means.  If you felt I was in any way placing any type of judgement, my apologies.

Actually, our friend has been on the receiving end of off-topic snide trolling, and if you tried to reply to it, you'd get moderated with a warning that you were disrespectful - when the opposite was the case.  A string of off-topic frugality interjections that glared of jealousy were normal MO a few years ago, any time the OP was about upscale tackle.  

If you notice how thoughtful are the replies on this current thread, the BR culture has changed for the better - people here want to inform and learn, and give others room for opinion.  

[Glaucus]

Every generation asks this. Every time we reach what seems to be an almost impossible achievement, we soon reach even higher. I'm sure it's indefinite really.

[bulldog1935]

@Glaucus - even the answer to the question is generational.  The people who benefit most from What's New are the people starting out.  Most of us have our niches and tackle already dialed-in.  I was fishing Ambassadeur weightless in the early '80s.  I fished my Lew's BB-1 and BB-25 variants literally for a generation. 

 

When the age of my tackle forced me back into the market, first thing I discovered was the ineffective mag brake from '80s had evolved into a very useful casting brake (especially for casting light).  The new tackle created new niches for me.  

 

My approach was the opposite of what the marketers want.  The makers have designed obsolescence into production, not supporting parts for reels past 5 years old.  I have to give credit to Roy's Bait & Tackle for buying the parts stores for the old Lew's I kept going for up to 30 years.  

[AlabamaSpothunter]

I took a 10+ year break from the sport, and I feel like that gave me a unique perspective on how far and fast the technology of gear changed within the sport from the early 2000s......and then from the 2020s.

 

For the most part I only buy Made in Japan reels, so the reels before and now would be considered the higher end models from both Shimano and Daiwa.    Reels like the Calais and Steez from the early 2000s, and reels like the new Zillions from today.   

 

What I learned is that the differences b/t early 2000s and 2020s reel technology is not nearly as significant as most other aspects of the tackle markets.   I don't feel like a Calais or Steez from 2007 era is all that behind the Zillions of today in terms of tech and usage.     For me I feel like reel technology evolves extremely slow, with very small incremental changes happening to them.  

 

On the other hand, it's beyond mind blowing how much both hooks and lines have improved.      The hooks and lines of the early 2000s are no longer usable for me given the massive gap in effectiveness and tech in the current ones.

 

Look at lures innovation from the early 2000s to now......insane.   Whole new categories of baits like Glides, A-Rigs, Jighead Minnows, etc.   

 

Look at electronic innovation from the early 2000s to now.....beyond insane.   Literally real time tracking of fish using sonar.   

 

The thing that has changed the least from the early 2000s to today is reel technology.

 

Like the AR-15, the modern day Bass reel has been refined to death, and any technological advances are happening on such a small scale year to year that's its hard to notice.      

 

 

[redmeansdistortion]

21 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

The thing that has changed the least from the early 2000s to today is reel technology.

Exactly.  Most reel designs are usually reinventing the wheel with a pinch of sugar to sweeten it up.  From what I can tell, the only real standout innovations the last 2 or 3 decades have been with braking systems like Daiwa Magforce and Shimano FTB.

 

Truthfully, the manufacturers are mainly focusing their efforts on 4 fronts; speed, drag capacity, bearing count, and lightness.  Those are the primary factors that push reel sales because of the "more is better" mentality.  Super fast retrieves are good for some things, not so much for others.  Drag capacity is overrated because it only matters to people that don't understand how drag works.  How did we land musky and Chinook salmon 30+ years ago on reels capable of a measly 6-8lb of drag?  Bearings are important, but what's more important is how and where they are implemented.  One can find endless examples of off brand reels with a very high bearing count.  Lastly, being lightweight is nice, but how it balances with a given rod is more important.  Balance will always be favorable to total weight.

[brophog]

On 12/23/2024 at 12:49 PM, redmeansdistortion said:

That said, it is worth mentioning the BFS crowd.  Lots, and I mean lots of them buy seemingly every reel from the fly-by-night manufacturers in China. 

 

I do think this brings up a good point that the minimum viable baitcast reel is much lower today than 25-30 years ago. Back then going too cheap on a baitcaster got you a set of plastic parts just waiting for a backlash and I dare not guess how many people swore off the technology altogether because of their purchasing choice. While I’m not recommending anyone go buy these cheap, generic OEM reels of today, I will say they’re a lot more viable as useable pieces of equipment.

 

[Bigbox99]

25 minutes ago, brophog said:

 

I do think this brings up a good point that the minimum viable baitcast reel is much lower today than 25-30 years ago. Back then going too cheap on a baitcaster got you a set of plastic parts just waiting for a backlash and I dare not guess how many people swore off the technology altogether because of their purchasing choice. While I’m not recommending anyone go buy these cheap, generic OEM reels of today, I will say they’re a lot more viable as useable pieces of equipment.

 

That's definitely true.  I remember paying $100 in the early 2000s for "graphite" (plastic) frame reels and now we have great aluminum frame reels for that price.  Inflation adjusted, that would put you into nearly $200 reel territory today.  

[redmeansdistortion]

17 hours ago, brophog said:

 

I do think this brings up a good point that the minimum viable baitcast reel is much lower today than 25-30 years ago. Back then going too cheap on a baitcaster got you a set of plastic parts just waiting for a backlash and I dare not guess how many people swore off the technology altogether because of their purchasing choice. While I’m not recommending anyone go buy these cheap, generic OEM reels of today, I will say they’re a lot more viable as useable pieces of equipment.

 

I have friends I've fished with for many years that still swear off baitcast reels as backlash machines, and it always goes back to their first experience with a bargain bin model from K-Mart back in the 80s and 90s.