How much better can reels get?

[Mojo Bass]

I’ve just been doing lots of reading lately on different companies and the various tech they put into each reel in each price point etc…… then I was thinking will there ever be a point where the tech from the higher end reels trickles down into the more budget friendly price points and then the high end reels become maybe not obsolete but not as desirable? You would think eventually they would run out of new things to add to the high end reels so it always has something over the mid end reel? I don’t know maybe I’m not getting my point across just a thought I was having…. What do all you think? How much better can fishing reels really get?

[Sota]

I subscribe to the old term..

 KISS. Keep it simple stoop

 Many times the old ways are the best ways.  Less things to go wrong. 
 As for if reels will reach a point. I think they will get to a point. That the changes will be minute. If any real change mechanically. Then it’s up to the marketing department to sell the “ new and improved “ They will probably come up with a new marketing phrase. 
 The Grand Poohbah braking system is a totally new concept. That will revolutionize the fishing industry. 
 When in actuality it is the same old with a new spin on the name. 
 Are we at that point yet? I don’t know. There may yet be new materials to use. 
But is it going to make it all that much better? 

[MiceNReets]

Definitely the high end reels will be obsolete to some extent.    Look at the Shimano Stradic FL.   Fantastic reel at a great price that doesn’t leave me wondering how much better the reels above its price point can be.   Same with the Zillion SV.   I don’t feel the need to go to a steez anymore or even feel the steez is worth it.     The SLX MGL and SLX DC XT to me make the curado obsolete now.    But what do I know?

 

 

[MediumMouthBass]

High end reels already are obsolete.

 

The reels ranging from $100-150 MSRP (that have went on sale over and over again around as low as recently $25-50-75-100) have more than anyone can want or need.

(anything over that within a small amount is either a special purpose reel, like big swimbaits for example. Or something like a Zillion from Japan for $200 if you want a really nice reel, but for most people who fish at your local lake thats not worth the money for what they get).

 

After that its just a buy in to a club that doesnt exist. Or a flex, that will impress 0 of the people who fish at your lake.

 

Personally i just want a reel i can depend on, that casts far, fits my hands, and will not break down if a big bass is on the hook. Any reel made today fits that, well if it passed quality control post covid that is. I have reels from $30-400. Honestly the reels from $100-150 (that i got most on sale for half that) blow the more expensive reels out of the water. And i just enjoy fishing them more.

3 hours ago, Sota said:

 Many times the old ways are the best ways.  Less things to go wrong. 

And then theres this^. Simple is better, easier to work on, find parts for, and less to break.

 

But you never know, the year 2035 might bring the new Daiwa Shimano SLX XT DC SV TW SUPER ZILLION MGL SLX made out of a new material from recycled bicycles that let you cast 4x farther while pedaling! And that reel might be a big hit!

[bulldog1935]

the word that's been left out is hype.  

 

There are a handful of paradigm changes in the history of the baitcast reel.  

1918 Douglas patent already had most of them, including A/R and freespool that lifts the pinion out of engagement with both main gear and spool.  

 

The falling line guide gets the same result as T-wing, but was primarily used because Marhoff's LW patent was still protected.  

 

Marketing will always try to convince you that this year's model makes last year's obsolete.  The Actual Marketing term for this is The Snow Job.  Changes over decades are slow - except in the marketing.  Significant changes come about every 25 years - a generation.  

 

Where can b/c reels go?  Chip control - a reel that reads the lure properties when you run the old-fashioned drop test, then adjusts itself for your cast.  

 

I will always remain impressed with mechanically simple answers, and reels built to be supported with parts beyond 5 years.  

[Columbia Craw]

With everything out there at this time, I’d be happy to find a Daiwa with the right length handle and true comfortable knobs.

[softwateronly]

Material sciences improving refinement for cheaper....maybe.  We're probably more likely to see stagnation or worse in the medium long term.

 

scott

[Bigbox99]

We've already been at that point for some time.  High end reels are primarily a luxury item today.  

9 hours ago, Columbia Craw said:

With everything out there at this time, I’d be happy to find a Daiwa with the right length handle and true comfortable knobs.

That's sort of like complaining about the stock tires and wheels on a car.  Yeah, it sucks that the USDM Daiwas have thiner knobs than most would like but for $11 or less you can put on a 95mm carbon fiber handle with Zillion HD like knobs on your reel.  It's one screw and a 10mm nut.   

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNGa1Qj

[bulldog1935]

@softwateronly That's a very good description of Shimano's approach - improve the design over time (Stella), then build the same design over using MOC that are cheaper to fabricate (Stradic) .  I've said more than once, R&D is how to make a reel cheaper.  Larger companies can invest in the fabrication technology.  

 

One e.g., stainless gears cost the most to broach and weigh the most, but can last forever because contact surface improves wear resistance with use.  Brass weighs the same at an intermediate cost, good wear properties, but wear surface is unforgiving of abuse.  We wouldn't have aluminum gears without major progress in anodizing depth, and wear surface hardness now matches a knife blade.  Wear surface toughness can be further improved with plasma-ion treatment.  Most recently, titanium is being tried to make stronger, lighter pinion gears.  

______________________

 

my ps is not everything you pay for is design improvement and tech.  The attention given parts-matching and bench-tuning by labor quality is also worth its cost (Vanquish, Twin Power).  Another example here, I was tinkering yesterday with my BC720 on a long shore-casting rod.  It outperformed my CV-Z.  Fifty years difference in basic design, the performance difference is all bench tuning.  

[Tennessee Boy]

I’m 62 years old and I’ve never owned a car that wouldn’t get me where I wanted to go and I’ve never owned a fishing reel that wouldn’t cast a lure and reel it back in.   What has not changed and probably never will change is that people love to obsess over the fine details of these products and the hype around new innovations.  As long as anglers are looking for the next innovative fishing reel,  the marketing people at Shimano,  Diawa and others will find a way to sell it to them.  It doesn’t matter if it improves their fishing or not.

[Jigfishn10]

Seems like more of a marketing thing than a quality thing. Reels that used a one-way roller bearing and maybe a spool bearing back in the day were just as smooth as what is produced today...IMO.

 

Then the bearing craze and reels started getting marketed as a 'buy me, I have x-amount of bearings'. Or it was a weight thing and 'hey, buy me, I only weigh this much'. 

 

I not saying that there wasn't good enhancements in reels that contributed to todays products, but some of the enhancements went a little over the top. 

 

Again, my opinion  

[bulldog1935]

What I've noticed in 50 years of driving and 55 years of fishing, reliability and service life has increased notably with cost.  

Fished-through my Mitchell 300 in 4 years (though spinning reels hit bottom in the '90s); my '05 F150 made 256k without a single repair or peripheral (ok, I had to repair a window lift - it's Ford).  

 

and yes, fishing and driving can both light your hair on fire

 

[Jigfishn10]

Sorry @Tennessee Boy, I think we posted at the same time and some of my content overlaps your post  

[Deleted account]

• Shimano can give anything a catchy 3 letter acronym and sell tons of product to the enthusiasts, as can most other companies that deal in sporting goods. They don't have a marketing Dept just for the heck of it. I'm not knocking it, I've been selling bicycles that are better than the riders who buy them for a long time, and don't see that changing. Oh, and my fishing tackle, bicycles, tennis rackets, and diving regs are all at least 10 years old, some going on 30...

[Mobasser]

I have a couple of older reels. An ABU Cardinal 4, and an ABU 4600c. I retired the Cardinal, but the 4600c still gets used, and still works perfectly after over 20 years.                                                     What I think has improved a lot are mid priced reels. Two that I'm using are a Shimano Sahara 2500, and a Lews LFS. Both cost around 80 to 100 bucks. The very high end stuff has always been good from all the companies. Guys will buy them as they always have. Will they make you a better fisherman? That depends on the guy who's operating them. For a lot of guys, I don't think it will matter too much.

[GReb]

Rods have become technique specific. It’s only a matter of time before reels are marketed the same. It’s easy to market and the technology/components already exists. They’ll just match those to that technique 

[SkippinJimmy]

Nice suits, nice cars, nice houses, and on and on and nobody seems to have a problem.  Buying premium hunting gear doesn’t seem to get other hunters tweeked out.  But fishermen are a different story.  Post something about premium fishing gear and you will always get comments questioning motivations.  Fishermen are strange creatures.

 

It’s ok to like higher end stuff if you can afford it and it doesn’t have to be about status at the boat ramp.

[padlin]

I’m thinking it won’t be too long before the reels are networked to the rest of the electronics. The fish finder will tell it how far to cast and how to reel to get the bar coded lure to the right depth for the largest fish. The trolling motor will position the boat to the most optimum spot for the cast. Probably the rod will be in the auto caster so it’ll be automated too. Once they come up with a fish remover the Tesla yak launch will drive and launch the boat where ever we chose and we can sit home and watch it all from the recliner on the in home IMAX.

 

someone should be able to tie it in with a fishing video game.

[bulldog1935]

@SkippinJimmy I've watched BR really improve frugality (over-) reaction in my tenure here (not taking credit).  When I arrived, Zillion always brought out hostility - now it's the BR Norm, even considered a bargain.  

[SkippinJimmy]

2 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

@SkippinJimmy I've watched BR really improve frugality (over) reaction in my tenure here (not taking credit).  When I arrived, Zillion always brought out hostility - now it's the BR Norm, even considered a bargain.  

That’s good…maybe folks here are atypical of most fishermen.  Nothing wrong with frugality.  Maybe they have more sense than those of us who prefer premium gear.  I have managed to avoid most addictions but fishing is not one of them.  I can never get past the part where you have to admit you have a problem.

[webertime]

This reel is 20 years old and was $200...

140yds of 12lb. 100yds of 16lb

7.4 ounces

7 bearings

Multi composite disc drag.

Ti Nitride line guide

 

Now look at a Curado M from today.  I would call that a benchmark reel.  The reel above is the same with more line capacity.

 

I'd say we've been on a plateau with reels for a while.  Except maybe the higher end DC reels not much has changed for a while.

 

 

[bulldog1935]

@webertime it's hard to see the slow-moving changes.  

In the '70s, Ambassadeur had been the benchmark baitcaster since 1954  It was the reel that finally made all those Douglas patents practical.  

In 1973, Lew gave us the next paradigm change with Speed Spool BB-1 - still basically Ambassadeur, but it separated LW from freespool and was the first LW reel that would cast with the NLW reels of the ninteen-teens.  If you moved from Ambassadeur to one of these, it was a rush.  (440 worm gear, zirconia pawl and TiN line guide)

 

Lew threw in an ineffective mag brake that would improve over time with magnet technology.  We're now in the generation of casting brakes - we moved away from the basic Ambassadeur 2-pin centrifugal.  The gradual changes look slow, simply because we're too close to them.  IMO, the biggest step in the current generation of reels was Daiwa MagForce.  

[redmeansdistortion]

1 hour ago, SkippinJimmy said:

That’s good…maybe folks here are atypical of most fishermen.  Nothing wrong with frugality.  Maybe they have more sense than those of us who prefer premium gear.  I have managed to avoid most addictions but fishing is not one of them.  I can never get past the part where you have to admit you have a problem.

I feel we must include that frugality doesn't equate to cheap.  Frugality is buying something you know will last, even if it comes at a price premium.  Essentially, you're getting what you pay for as value is the bottom line, not price. 

 

One of my customers still regularly uses the same Zebco Cardinal 3 he bought new back in '76.  He paid almost $80 for it then, or about $450 today adjusted for inflation.  He saw the value in his purchase and got nearly 50 years of service and counting.  By this time he could've spent much more constantly replacing cheap models every 2 or 3 seasons.

[LootyDjibouti]

Materials... lighter and stronger, or more rigid. Don't see this slowing down anytime soon.

I also suspect we'll see continued improvements with digital assist, control. 

[SkippinJimmy]

53 minutes ago, redmeansdistortion said:

I feel we must include that frugality doesn't equate to cheap.  Frugality is buying something you know will last, even if it comes at a price premium.  Essentially, you're getting what you pay for as value is the bottom line, not price. 

I was simply responding to another post where the term was used.  I never made a value judgement and think people have a pretty clear understanding of what frugal means.  If you felt I was in any way placing any type of judgement, my apologies.