Bloody Shimano!

[Mobasser]

Currently, I'm using Shimano, Lews, and one Diawa. I haven't had any problems with any of my spinning reels.

[bulldog1935]

On 12/12/2024 at 4:30 PM, Tim Kelly said:

... If you open the bail at the "wrong" part of the rotation it will snap back mid cast....

Sounds like a Don't Do That moment.  

Every spinning reel made has a rotation position that opening the bail will interfere with the bail trip mechanism.  

I always position my line roller at top dead center to prep for a cast, and never had an issue.  

 

If you want some excitement, do it wrong on your big surf reel.  

[waymont]

I’ve had that issue w Shimano spinning reels too. Not ever one, but a hand full over the years. The original white Stradic had that issue too. 

[JustJames]

3 hours ago, Tim Kelly said:

Just looked at a schematic and it looks like there's a bail trip lever, which might be removable. Going to investigate, but I don't have a torx head small enough, so waiting on Amazon. If it is possible that would be a super outcome and I'm glad this thread has made me think about this problem more than just being infuriated by it. 

Yes it won’t be auto closing anymore but now your bail will close on mid cast in every position. That lever is the one make contact to friction ring. 

[T2DM]

5 hours ago, Tim Kelly said:

Just looked at a schematic and it looks like there's a bail trip lever, which might be removable. Going to investigate, but I don't have a torx head small enough, so waiting on Amazon. If it is possible that would be a super outcome and I'm glad this thread has made me think about this problem more than just being infuriated by it. 

 

Remove the Bail Trip Strip instead, I think its removable and should disable auto close. When you open the bail, and depending on the bail arm position, the Bail Trip Lever makes contact with the Bail Trip Strip. That's why the bail arm won't fully open and sometimes you have to twist the bail arm rotation again to fully open it and to get that full open feel and click. 

 

 

 

 

[GetFishorDieTryin]

I think whats happening is somewhat common if you have a jerky cast and or an old reel that isn't manually closed.  Theres a position where the mechanism, hits the trip ramp and the bail closes.  You want to flip the bail at the position where the rotor cant get enough momentum to where it hits the trip ramp and closes.  If you open the bail, turn the rotor with your hand until the mechanism rests against the ramp the rotor will not have enough tolerance to gain the momentum necessary to trip the bail.    

Ive seen many guys run into this issue surf fishing with 2 and 3oz plugs youre casting 100yds, but its rare for FW or lighter tackle.  I did some issues with an original Stradic ci4, but replacing the bail spring fixed it. I remove all the trip ramps in my Penn reels, its easy.  I don't know if they can be removed in Shimanos/Daiwas as I've never run into serious issues, but I would like to remove them all.  Having an auto bail on a spinning reel is like having training wheels on a Harley.  I swear they only include them in hopes to sell more Power Pro and Jbraid due to wind knots.  I dont think using the handle to close the bail is good for a reel anyway.  The fastest way to make a new reel feel old is to use the handle to trip the bail.

Shimanos actually feel like they have a more positive lock IMO compared to Daiwas, especially when compared to the last gen LTs that lacked an audible click.  Daiwa even addressed that with the newer LT models.    

[Tim Kelly]

4 hours ago, T2DM said:

 

Remove the Bail Trip Strip instead, I think its removable and should disable auto close. When you open the bail, and depending on the bail arm position, the Bail Trip Lever makes contact with the Bail Trip Strip. That's why the bail arm won't fully open and sometimes you have to twist the bail arm rotation again to fully open it and to get that full open feel and click. 

 

 

 

 

I think you may well have the correct solution. Just removed the ramp and it appears to have cured the issue completely. There is a hard stop if you try to close the bail with the handle, but as I never do that I don't see it being a problem. Thank you. I will give it a test drive tomorrow, but it looks very promising.

 

[MediumMouthBass]

Ive had a few Shimanos that did the auto close, usually beginning of the cast (where the most force is applied). But these are just the $30 Siennas, nothing fancy or high quality.

 

If i cast too hard it closes, and makes me look like an idiot who never fished before to those around.

If i cast with less force its not an issue. Which in the video you posted looks like way too much speed and snap.

 

I also never closed the bail by hand, i would just turn the handle. Then i started noticing how awful it sounded when i did it. So i started closing it by hand, feels better, sounds better, and my accuracy with a spinning combo improved significantly. Plus when closing the bail with the handle (if the lures still in the air) not only does it cause a really awful snapping sound, but it pulls the bait back a bit and may snap the line. Atleast on lighter line.

[T2DM]

2 hours ago, Tim Kelly said:

I think you may well have the correct solution. Just removed the ramp and it appears to have cured the issue completely. There is a hard stop if you try to close the bail with the handle, but as I never do that I don't see it being a problem. Thank you. I will give it a test drive tomorrow, but it looks very promising.

 

Glad to help and I hope it all work out for you; I think it will cause I've seen a video a while back about the Shimano Saragosa doesn't have the auto close or trip feature. I myself have never liked and never use the auto close feature and wish sometimes that Shimano would just get rid of it completely.

 

 

[KP Duty]

Lame.  I thought there was a new red Curado coming or something 🤡

[Brian11719]

Just out of curiosity which reel does this happen with? I ask because I've owned reels in the Ultegra, Stradic and Vanford line and have never had this happen but I'd be interested to see if I can make this happen on any of mine. The only other spinning reel I have left that isn't a Shimano is a Lews Hypermag and I actually really like that one too...it's a bit different but the drag is nice and clicky on that one...but if I had to do it all over again knowing what I know now I'd probably just go straight Shimano for my spinning setups so am curious to know what one you've got and if I would be able to reproduce the behavior...on the other hand I'd probably go all daiwa and dobyns kaden for my casting setups at this point but suppose that's a different conversation for a different thread.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

On 12/13/2024 at 3:19 AM, Tim Kelly said:

Every one of my Shimano reels has the same problem. At the point where the auto trip trips the bail, if you were to close the handle, if you open the bail at that part of the rotation the bail locks open but snaps shut mid cast. The daiwas won't lock open at that part of the rotation, so it never happens.

It has to do with the angle of the trip ramp. Shimano design allows the bail to stay open but it not fully open and locked hence the snap. positioning the bail with roller top dead center for casting should eliminate this problem with any spinning reel designs. 

[Bigbox99]

I had no idea people were opening bails in any other position than with the line roller on top and swinging the bail open to the right on a left hand reel.  Do you just stop reeling for the next cast then look down to see what position the bail is in then open it however it is positioned? 

[AlgonquinFan]

I've owned and used several different versions/sizes of Shimano Stradic spinning reels from the mid 1990s up to the present day - never had an issue with them.

[J Francho]

Can we really blame @Tim Kelly? His steering wheel is on the wrong side too. 

[Tim Kelly]

4 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Can we really blame @Tim Kelly? His steering wheel is on the wrong side too. 

Haha, yet your boat steering wheel is on the correct side. That Henry Ford was clearly an idiot.

2 hours ago, Bigbox99 said:

I had no idea people were opening bails in any other position than with the line roller on top and swinging the bail open to the right on a left hand reel.  Do you just stop reeling for the next cast then look down to see what position the bail is in then open it however it is positioned? 

Yep. No need to look at the reel, just open the bail, touch the spool with my finger and cast. Can do it in one fluid movement as I swing the rod back to make a cast.

13 hours ago, Brian11719 said:

Just out of curiosity which reel does this happen with? I ask because I've owned reels in the Ultegra, Stradic and Vanford line and have never had this happen but I'd be interested to see if I can make this happen on any of mine. The only other spinning reel I have left that isn't a Shimano is a Lews Hypermag and I actually really like that one too...it's a bit different but the drag is nice and clicky on that one...but if I had to do it all over again knowing what I know now I'd probably just go straight Shimano for my spinning setups so am curious to know what one you've got and if I would be able to reproduce the behavior...on the other hand I'd probably go all daiwa and dobyns kaden for my casting setups at this point but suppose that's a different conversation for a different thread.

It happens with all the Shimano I've ever owned. Currently a couple of Vanfords and three Stradics

14 hours ago, T2DM said:

Glad to help and I hope it all work out for you; I think it will cause I've seen a video a while back about the Shimano Saragosa doesn't have the auto close or trip feature. I myself have never liked and never use the auto close feature and wish sometimes that Shimano would just get rid of it completely.

 

 

Can say the modification is a complete success. Thank you for the suggestion. Really easy on the vanford, just take the rotor off and pry the ramp out. I will be doing it to all my current Shimanos and will now look at them as a possibility in the future. 

[DaveT63]

I have one of the original Stradic Ci4 reels that does that every so often.  It's the only reel I've ever had that does it.  Seems like it only ever  happened when I was casting a lure heavy enough to snap the line when the bail tripped.  Lost several nice traps that way, so I finally took it out of the rotation.  I might have to remove that ramp and start fishing it again.

[Hulkster]

What shimano spinning reel is doing this? I've never had this happen since they put the 'positive click' bail feature on them in the late 90s. 

 

is this an old reel? 

[Tim Kelly]

Last generation vanfords and stradics, earlier models too. It's part of their bail design, but if you use them as others have described they work fine, just me being awkward with the way I use the reel. I have a very efficient way of putting my finger on the spool as I open the bail to make the cast, rather than looping the line under my index finger, which is more common. I open the bail at whatever part of the rotation it is in, and at one point in the rotation shimanos will click open, but snap shut when cast, Daiwas just won't let you fully open the bail at the same point, so it's not an issue. 

[Hulkster]

5 hours ago, Tim Kelly said:

Last generation vanfords and stradics, earlier models too. It's part of their bail design, but if you use them as others have described they work fine, just me being awkward with the way I use the reel. I have a very efficient way of putting my finger on the spool as I open the bail to make the cast, rather than looping the line under my index finger, which is more common. I open the bail at whatever part of the rotation it is in, and at one point in the rotation shimanos will click open, but snap shut when cast, Daiwas just won't let you fully open the bail at the same point, so it's not an issue. 

sounds like the bail spring is weakened or bent on your reels. It shouldn't matter what position the bail arm is in when you open it, the positive click feature is supposed to prevent reel from snapping shut on a forward cast. 

[Tim Kelly]

I promise you, it happens with every shimano I've ever touched

 

[Fishing_Rod]

Greetings and Happy Holidays All,

@Tim Kelly I have experience with what you describe regarding the Shimano spinning reels. Some details of my situation. First, the reels I use are generally the ones at the very low cost end of the Shimano product line. These are the Sienna or lower cost models.

 

I will add that I have only experienced this situation on the larger reel sizes. I mainly use the 500 series and those have not exhibited this. I suspect a couple of things. The spring tension based on the mass of the bail for the smaller reels is sufficient to keep it in place even with a spirited cast. Less inertia and more spring tension.

 

The 1000 and larger have more bail mass and probably not as much spring holding tension.

 

It doesn't happen frequently, but it is always annoying when it does happen. I have simply taken to palming the larger reels during the cast to aid in preventing the bail from tripping. Usually just a light application of holding near the lower hinge point is all that is needed.

 

It seems there is more of a tendency with an over head cast motion. I don't recall much of the lateral casting to cause it.

 

So just $ 0.02 USD tossed in for consideration on the matter. Be well, and Cheers!

[Darren.]

I just have to say that this is an amazing forum. Best resource

for bass fishing on the internet. Period. Mic drop.