Which Tatula SV Braking System is Best at Mitigating Bird’s Nests?

[EarnestDignity]

Hi everyone,

 

At this stage of my life, where stress-free relaxation is more important than reel smoothness, durability, maximizing casting distance, or catching fish, the Daiwa Tatula SV reels seem to be the best fit for me as I gain casting experience.

 

I recently got recommendations for the Tatula SV reels for mitigating bird’s nests. While doing the research, I came across the new SV TW 150 with the Magforce-Z brakes. After reading more about these brakes, they seemed like exactly what I needed to reduce backlashes.

 

However, when I checked Daiwa's website for more details, I was surprised to see the Tatula SV (no numbers after it) listed with the Air Brake System, not Magforce-Z. I dug deeper and found that some sources claim the Air Brake System is an upgrade to Magforce-Z.

 

But then, when I compared different models on ReelCatalog.com, it showed that the 2024 reels still have Magforce-Z, and the JDM 20 Tatula SV TW 103 has both Magforce-Z and the Air Brake System. This was all very confusing!

 

I decided to call Daiwa for clarification, but as you might expect, the representative wasn’t very certain about the details. He mentioned that the Air Brake System is generally better at preventing backlashes than Magforce-Z but might not be as effective with heavier lures over an ounce. I’m reluctant to believe anything he said.

 

At this point, I’m really unsure what to trust.  Does anyone here have experience with or knowledge of both of these braking systems?

 

Yesterday, I made the decision to put Daiwa Tatula SV reels on three rods after guidance from forum members but specifically which SV reel and with which braking system is still unclear to me.

 

These are the three rods I wish to pair with Daiwa Tatula SV reels. Specifically, with the sole purpose of mitigating bird’s nests, which Tatula SV year and model numbers do you recommend for each rod?

 

Other than price, is there a difference in the JDM version of it?

 

• Rod 1: 7’5”  MHf  Megabass Levante Braillist (3/8 to 1 oz. lures)
• Rod 2: 7’2”  MHmf  Evergreen Combat Stick (3/8 to 1-1/4 oz. lures)
• Rod 3: a crankbait rod yet to be determined... Possibly the 7’ MHmf Alpha Angler Rebound. (1/4 to 1 oz lures)

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

 

[EarnestDignity]

I just wanted to mention that I asked for suggestions on the year and model, as well as which Tatula SV braking system you'd recommend because when I searched "Tatula SV" on reelcatalog.com, it showed 38 different reels, but the various JDM and domestic sites I've visited only list a few different options.

[WRB]

You are way down the rabbit hole.

No bait casting reel is backlash proof that has a free spinning spool. Braking is an effort to control the free spinning spool so it doesn’t spin faster then line coming off during the lure flight.

More spool braking or friction the slower the spool spin reducing casting distance.

I am so old when I started using casting reels they didn’t have any brakes! We had to use thumb to apply braking and that is still the best system.

Starting the reel spool to spin let’s say 0 to 100 in 1/8 second is harder to control then a start up speed 0 to 1/2 second. This is where the rod comes into play. Faster action rod starts the spool spinning faster so let’s call the 1/8 second a XF rod, 1/4 second F and 1/2 second Mod.

Rod power is the lure weight rating that rod was designed to cast. This is very misleading because every lure has different aerodynamics and slows in flight at a different rate of speed. Fast spinning spool with the lure slowing creates the line to over run (backlash) the spool. It’s inflight lure speed where braking becomes  tricky. The old method was feel from use developing casting skill. Mechanical braking can’t duplicate an educated thumb. 
So here we are trying to decide who’s braking system out performs the other. The answer is…..practice and confidence. Both Shimano and Daiwa offer light weight long casting reels. Daiwa’s SV braking is very good in mid flight spool control but you can’t buy practice and skill.

Tom

[Sota]

If I can chime in. 
 There’s not a backlash proof reel. The reel braking system can possibly lessen the chances/ frequency of a backlash. 
 You can increase the braking while getting used to the reel. Then as you get more time on using the reel. You can lessen the braking. 
As for the difference between US and JDM. I don’t think the JDM’ are covered under warranty in the states. I think if you have a warranty issue. You have to send it back to the seller and they can forward it to warranty service in Japan. That or bite the bullet and pay for the work in the States.  

[bulldog1935]

you'll find links here that give the physics of backlash and casting brakes, shows the difference between MagForceZ and SV brake inductors, and describes the dual inductor return springs in Boost.  

The changes between MagForce/V/Z/SV and SSAir relate initially to the strength of the magnets, improving with magnet technology, and evolution to lower-mass inductors, with SSAir having the lowest-mass inductor yet, 25% lighter than SV.  

The reasonable assumption is MagForceZ is tuned to heavy line and casting weights, and SSAir is tuned to the BFS end.  

 

In these photos, note the Z inductor is thicker and heavier than the SV inductor, etc.  

With good cast habits, you can adjust either to be close-enough to backlash-proof, by setting to the lightest thing you plan to throw.  

[F14A-B]

Magforce Z is awesome. I have a lot of experience with Magforce, Magforce Z and Magforce V , I have tried the SV and in my opinion it’s a grossly overbraked system for my uses. However in testing on a Daiwa Zillion rod 7’ 3” MH rod w regular bend and with a 3/8 ounce lead casting weight the reel and rod would throw 120 to 130’ rather easily. As far as pitching, I didn’t like it for that at all. 
 

Edit: I should add that during my testing of the reel with the SV spool my brake setting was on zero for everything. So you can see the amount of brake force that was still being applied even on zero.. for a 120 foot cast. This was performed about 50 or 60 times..

Edited December 4, 2024 by F14A-B
Adding information.

[FrnkNsteen]

In my opinion, the Daiwa SV system started with the early SV103 series available in the early to mid 2010's. The one I have is pretty heavily braked with the original floating SV spool. I believe the T3 SV reels were out around the same time, but had the unique Magforce 3D that was even more adjustable.

 

My SV103 is a skipping machine with the factory spool, but is a little overbraked for regular casting to get good distance on other techniques. Unfortunately, neither the SV103 or T3 reels are available anymore or I would buy a handful.

 

Daiwa then transitioned to the 2017 Daiwa Tatula SV 103 TW, which introduced the Twing and used the same CT frame used on the Tatula  CT and the Tatula CT Type R. Those reels seemed to be the ones that really built a reputation for making skipping more controllable for people because the braking was heavy enough to really help mitigate backlashes. To the best of my knowledge, that 2017 Tatula SV103 TW is still in production and can still be purchased new.

 

In 2020, Daiwa came out with a new model of the Tatula SV, simply called the Tatula SV TW, that had a new smaller frame. In my opinion, the braking loosened up a bit on that model, but people still say it is a good skipping reel, meaning it is braked heavily enough to help with backlashing.

 

All the different models mentioned above probably come from the different gear ratios and right hand vs left hand versions of the 2017 and 2020 year models.

 

In the end though, as others have stated above.... Avoiding backlashes is something you learn to control with thumb control, but there's no denying that a good braking system helps, and those Tatula SV reels are known for being braked heavily enough to help minimize issues.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

[casts_by_fly]

If you want to eliminate backlashes, then practically speaking

 

1- adjust the spool tension until the lure slowly drops

2- put the brakes on 1 click below the max setting

3- put the reel on a rod with a moderate fast action for the most forgiveness

 

if you are still backlashing with those three things in place then you need some help with casting form.  The above will restrict distance, but for the weight ranges of the rods you're noting above you're already talking about a half ounce total bait weight lure.  You should still be able to casually cast that a solid 20-25 yards even with the reel clamped down.  Then as you get more practice you can loosen it up.

[bulldog1935]

With proper casting brake set-up, you should only need thumb to release and stop the spool (adjust final distance) - that's kinda the point, for brakes to take the place of your thumb modulating start and mid-cast.  

But there's more to a proper cast, which is how you load the rod.  

The bad habit brought from spinning tackle is wrist snap, which is rewarded in a spinning cast with extra distance.  In a bait cast, this added jerk has to be subtracted by brake force to eliminate start-up backlash, so it adds Zero to a bait cast.  If you only have linear mag brake (fixed-inductor BFS spool), wrist snap is start-up backlash (in a fly cast, wrist snap is a tailing loop).  Maximum cast distance comes from smooth acceleration and wrist follow-through without adding jerk.  

 

In the early 80s, I was fishing Ambassadeur weightless, and could out-distance guides with their weightless spinning tackle.  I made a forward-spiral centrifugal cast, which is completely without jerk, and also effectively lengthens the rod (tricky thumb, feeding line during cast stroke).  I PO'd two guides who tutored me on what was wrong with my cast, then we compared, and I doubled their cast distance.  It's ok, I made them both look good back at the dock.  

 

@FrnkNsteen those two anodize colors in my spool photos above are the stock inductors for all Z and SV brakes.  Daiwa tunes those inductors on individual spools by shimming the inductor depth in the mag field (see white washer in SV photo above), and changing return-spring rates.  

 

Also Note with Daiwa brake - leave the spool tension out of it.  

Only adjust mag brake scalar to prevent mid-cast backlash throwing the lightest thing you plan to throw.  If you're facing the wind, add 2 mag notches.  

 

Thumb - if you want to become a thumb master, take one of these to the back acre.  

Meek and Talbot NLW reels from the ninteen-teens held all world distance-casting records until Ambassadeur CT arrived in the '70s.  

[FrnkNsteen]

52 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

 

@FrnkNsteen those two anodize colors in my spool photos above are the stock inductors for all Z and SV brakes.  

Daiwa adjusts those inductors on individual spools by shimming the inductor depth in the mag field (see white washer in SV photo above), and changing return spring rates.  

@bulldog1935 So are you saying all the inductors with the same color anodize are the same, then they just adjust shims and return springs to tweak the braking profiles of different spool setups?

 

If so, that is interesting. I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing. Now I need to go look at my different spools when I get home.

 

Is that the same for shafted spools like the Tatula series, or just on the free floating spools?

[bulldog1935]

Hi @FrnkNsteen - yes, exactly correct - Z and SV are the inductors.  

The guys on TackleTour tune their spools by swapping inductors, shims, and springs.  

One trick is swapping-in a Ray's Studio inductor.  

Jun Sonada on JapanTackle offers milder springs (e.g for HLC) and different thickness shim washers.  

[EarnestDignity]

On 12/4/2024 at 6:13 AM, bulldog1935 said:

you'll find links here that give the physics of backlash and casting brakes, shows the difference between MagForceZ and SV brake inductors, and describes the dual inductor return springs in Boost.  

 

 

On 12/4/2024 at 6:35 AM, F14A-B said:

Magforce Z is awesome. I have a lot of experience with Magforce, Magforce Z and Magforce V , I have tried the SV and in my opinion it’s a grossly overbraked system for my uses. However in testing on a Daiwa Zillion rod 7’ 3” MH rod w regular bend and with a 3/8 ounce lead casting weight the reel and rod would throw 120 to 130’ rather easily. As far as pitching, I didn’t like it for that at all. 

 

On 12/4/2024 at 8:24 AM, FrnkNsteen said:

In the end though, as others have stated above.... Avoiding backlashes is something you learn to control with thumb control, but there's no denying that a good braking system helps, and those Tatula SV reels are known for being braked heavily enough to help minimize issues.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for the wealth of information I've gathered so far! It's been helpful, and I’m eager to continue learning. But if I may, I’d like to ask for some additional guidance.

 

I’m looking to make three reel purchases this week, and I would really, really appreciate your advice on pairing the right reels for me with the following three rods in my collection.

 

Specifically, I’m hoping for your recommendations on the  year  and  model  of Tatula reels that would make their inevitable backlashing the least severe.

 

Rod 1: 7’5”  MHf  Megabass Levante Braillist (3/8 to 1 oz. lures).   Year  and  model  of the Tatula reel you recommend I purchase for Rod 1:__________________________________

 

Rod 2: 7’2”  MHmf  Evergreen Combat Stick (3/8 to 1-1/4 oz. lures).   Year  and  model  of the Tatula reel you recommend I purchase for Rod 2:__________________________________

 

Rod 3: 7’ MHmf Alpha Angler Rebound. (1/4 to 1 oz lures).  Year and model of the Tatula reel you recommend I purchase for Rod 3:__________________________________

 

I would be very grateful for your input. Thank you again for your time and expertise!

 

Oh... and are the JDM versions of the them different or better than what I can get here?

 

Thank you so much!

[Big Hands]

I have a rod similar to your Rod #2 (mine is a Daiwa Elite Randy Howell 7'4" MHMF) that I run with 15 lbs mono for bigger topwater plugs like Zara Spooks, 117 Gunfish, Dartwing 125, Pop-Max, as well as Flashy Swimmers and bigger crankbaits or spinnerbaits. I have tried several reels on it including the Tatula Elite SV TWS, and the Shimano Curado 200K is the reel I like best. . . by a long shot.

 

The Tatula Elite SV TWS is one of the most expensive reels I own. The build quality is very good. I tried it with rods from ML/F to H/F and many in between, with 6 lbs mono to 50 lbs braid, and as much as I wanted to love it, I just don't.

[FrnkNsteen]

Since you didn't mention the techniques you will be using, I can only guess by the rod descriptions that you may be looking at a jig/worm rod for #1, maybe a Chatterbait/Spinnerbait rod for #2, and maybe a crankbait rod for #3?

 

If you have your mind set on a Tatula and are focusing on cast control and backlash mitigation, it seems you are limited to the 2017 Tatula SV 103 TW with the larger CT frame or the smaller 2020 Tatula SV TW. Hard to tell you which to choose between the two because in my opinion it really boils down to how they fit your hand and what you like. You should be able to find the 2020 type framed reel (Tatula 100 or Tatula SV) at pretty much any tackle shop near you. The larger CT framed 2017 model may be more difficult as I believe it is only on the 2017 Tat SV and the Tatula CT.

 

If my assessment of possible techniques above is accurate, maybe choose an 8 speed for rod #1, a 7 speed for rod #2, and a 6 speed for Rod 3. If rod #3 is for lighter stuff and you like smaller framed reels,... Maybe consider the smaller Tatula SV 70 for rod #3. It is smaller, lighter, and very good cast control.

[bulldog1935]

Difference between JDM and USM?  You can get JDM Zillion SV TW for the same price as USM Tatula SV TW 103, and less than USM Tatula Elite.  

[F14A-B]

I used Daiwa for many years. This past spring I updated my equipment and went all in on Shimano, so no reel recommendations from me. 
 

BTW, order from Japan and save some bucks. 

[FishTank]

Skip the Tatulas and just get the JDM Zillions. I have yet to see a Tatula that has had consistent braking. Each Tatula I have fished, with exception of the latest version, will be fine for several casts and then all of sudden backlash.  Anytime I pick one up, I have my thumb at the ready. With the Zillions (various versions) I have,  I don't have to worry about it. 

[Bass Rutten]

Just getchya 3 jdm zillions and be happy

#analysisparalysis

[F14A-B]

2 hours ago, FishTank said:

Skip the Tatulas and just get the JDM Zillions. I have yet to see a Tatula that has had consistent braking. Each Tatula I have fished, with exception of the latest version, will be fine for several casts and then all of sudden backlash.  Anytime I pick one up, I have my thumb at the ready. With the Zillions (various versions) I have,  I don't have to worry about it. 

I’d like to try a Zillion but I want one with magforce z do they have such a model? I had a fleet of the OG Zillion reels best reels I ever owned. 

[FishTank]

56 minutes ago, F14A-B said:

I’d like to try a Zillion but I want one with magforce z do they have such a model? I had a fleet of the OG Zillion reels best reels I ever owned. 

 

The regular Zillion uses a newer SV Boost system.  I was never a complete fan of the Magforce system. 

 

This newer system works. It can cast lures a long way. Most lures seem to take off quickly, slow down, and then speed up again. It's kind of weird actually. 

 

The JDM Zillion HD has a Mag Z Boost. This works great for heavier jigs, swimbaits, etc. 

 

Here is a Daiwa promo video on the SV Boost.

 

 

[Bass Rutten]

2 hours ago, F14A-B said:

I’d like to try a Zillion but I want one with magforce z do they have such a model? I had a fleet of the OG Zillion reels best reels I ever owned. 

The 2017 steez a uses magforce z, I don't see why you couldn't just plop that spool into a zillion to make a magforce-z zillion. Spool link https://www.hedgehog-studio.co.jp/product/3765

[dodgeguy]

Team Lews SP. If you backlash one of these it's time to go all spinning.

[FrnkNsteen]

8 hours ago, FishTank said:

Skip the Tatulas and just get the JDM Zillions. I have yet to see a Tatula that has had consistent braking. Each Tatula I have fished, with exception of the latest version, will be fine for several casts and then all of sudden backlash.  Anytime I pick one up, I have my thumb at the ready. With the Zillions (various versions) I have,  I don't have to worry about it. 

I was thinking the same thing, but if the goal is to minimize backlash issues, I was thinking the SV Boost of the Zillion is more free and would allow more chances for backlash than the Tatula SV.

 

I think if I were to look in a different direction and thinking JDM, I would consider the Alphas SV 800. Great cast control, smoother than any Tatula, and cheaper too!!

[bulldog1935]

The smaller diameter spool of Alphas (and Steez CT) does reduce inertia.  

But it's also a trade-off that the larger diameter Zillion spool doesn't have to spin as fast to achieve the same cast distance.  

Alphas and Zillion both have free-floating spool design.  The full-width-spindle mass of Tatula spool also increases inertia, so the SV brake on Alphas or Zillion doesn't have to apply as much force to eliminate backlash, giving a distance edge.  

[EarnestDignity]

On 12/5/2024 at 7:01 PM, dodgeguy said:

Team Lews SP. If you backlash one of these it's time to go all spinning.

Thank you. No one had yet offered this option. Like all others, I will certainly research it before making my final decision on my three upcoming reel purchases [Thumbs up!]

On 12/5/2024 at 11:19 AM, FishTank said:

Skip the Tatulas and just get the JDM Zillions. I have yet to see a Tatula that has had consistent braking. Each Tatula I have fished, with exception of the latest version, will be fine for several casts and then all of sudden backlash.  Anytime I pick one up, I have my thumb at the ready. With the Zillions (various versions) I have,  I don't have to worry about it. 

 

On 12/5/2024 at 2:50 PM, FishTank said:

 

The regular Zillion uses a newer SV Boost system.  I was never a complete fan of the Magforce system. 

 

This newer system works. It can cast lures a long way. Most lures seem to take off quickly, slow down, and then speed up again. It's kind of weird actually. 

 

The JDM Zillion HD has a Mag Z Boost. This works great for heavier jigs, swimbaits, etc. 

 

Here is a Daiwa promo video on the SV Boost.

 

 

Thank you very much for your recommendations~ 

 

I haven't decided yet but if the Zillions are in fact more free and more susceptible to backlashing than the Tatulas or the JDM Alphas, I may hold off on them for the first few years.

 

Am I correct in assuming that you didn't have those same issues you mentioned with the 2024 Tatula SV reels? If so, and if you do recommend them for my intended purpose and goals, which one of the two 2024 models (100 or 150) do you recommend for which rod, please?