Must. Resist. Temptation.

[Susky River Rat]

22 minutes ago, Motoboss said:

And I know it sounds crazy. I don’t understand that. It’s against everything in the bass fishing handbook. But that’s what’s going on.”

That was one event. You aren’t going to repeat that over and over again. This was the minority of events where the majority are not won that way.  Which he pretty much eluded too. Plus the every fish counts is also a different way of fishing than the 5 biggest. Generally the kayak events are 5 longest. 

[FryDog62]

I too have been intrigued by the XTR 130. Chad Hoover was going to experiment putting a new bow mount trolling motor from Power Pole called “Move.” This is estimated to propel the boat as fast as the best stern mount electric motors out there (about twice as fast as the Autopilot 120). And yes - it also has the equivalent of Spot Lock. 

It costs a pretty penny, but eliminates the need for a motor at both the stern and bow. 

 

I keep looking for an update from Chad, and will reach out to him to see if there is any kind of update. 
 

 

 

[casts_by_fly]

4 hours ago, Susky River Rat said:

I fished for years out of a Coleman scanoe with a TM mainly lakes. I would have LOVED to have spot lock on that. I hate anchoring. It’s a pain and I’m the river you end of losing a lot of them.   15mph winds without spot lock? Forget it unless you are out of the wind or again want to anchor

 

. Some days I never put it on spot lock. Most days I use it heavily. I’ll only move 10 to 15ft than spot lock again just to get different angles on things. The ability it gives you to not have to throw an anchor pull up than throw again is invaluable to me. Wind, wake and current is where it shines.  Flat calm days it’s not needed.  I just can’t see giving up being able to move around and stay in one area anytime you want for speed. 

 

do you have a minn kota puck installed?  Spotlock jog is great for what you’re describing. 

[Swamp Girl]

2 hours ago, Motoboss said:

 

Taken from another, older thread stressing the importance of movement.

The next few lines are from Britt Myers about his latest MLF experience at Dale Hollow: 

 

‘’Literally, I never fished anywhere today that I fished the first day,” Myers said. “I think those fish are just roaming anywhere from 4 foot to 30 foot. And I know it sounds crazy. I don’t understand that. It’s against everything in the bass fishing handbook. But that’s what’s going on.”

 

 

I think part of my success comes from moving. I watch the videos where a guy will cast at one laydown for 20-30 minutes and whereas I might give a laydown five minutes, that's it. So, whereas I understand the allure and power of Spotlock, getting from one spot to another in less time appeals to me a little more. 

[Susky River Rat]

@casts_by_fly the quests do not have the heading sensor it is built into the unit head eliminating the puck. I generally do not use that feature because I will hit something in the river. Usually there is some kind of zig zag around something I have to do.  The newest generation of spot lock on the MKs  is much better than the second gen and light years ahead of the first gen. 

[Koz]

14 hours ago, Susky River Rat said:

@Kozyou can’t compare what pros do in a boat to kayak fishing. That’s part of the challenge is you have to pick the right areas or load up and pick another area. The top kayak guys and gals will tell you that too. I have fished tournaments too with a large no wake area that spans 45 plus minutes to get to one end. It’s planning. Plus I have to be at weigh in by a certain time with live fish.  Even the pro guys in boats make 2-3 hour runs at certain places. Sorry to lecture you but, you need to plan better to fish the areas that have the fish you need vs trying to cover water. You should have a pattern some what established. This is what makes tournaments harder than going out and just fishing.  Give up spot lock for a a day in the wind than come back and thank us later. 

Tournament fishing is tournament fishing no matter what you are fishing out of.

 

Let’s take a lake like Guntersville for example. The main lake is about 79 miles long and on tournament day a boat can traverse that with no problem.

 

You can pre-fish, study maps and history all you want, but sometimes the fish move. So you have to move.

 

If I’m an hour away from the ramp at 3 mph, that’s an hour to head back then who knows how much time to load and drive to the next ramp. But if I can go 6-9 mph I can cut that time in half or more. Or I can quickly get to another area 4-5 miles away zipping across the lake. 

 

As it stands now, I have all my spots mapped out and if I need to move I have to do the math and calculate if it’s quicker to motor to the next spot or head back to the ramp, load up, and drive to the next spot.

 

Anglers like Kristine Fischer regularly talk about covering 12-15 miles from the ramp finding fish. That’s two hours or less of travel time for her and 4-5 hours of travel time for me.

 

I’m hitting almost all of these lakes for the first time and with my work schedule I’m lucky to get in one day of pre-fishing. The more water I can cover pre-fishing - even if I’m just scoping and marking - the better. It’s why boat guys use 200 HP motors and not 40 HP motors.

 

As I have found out, one of the reasons that Hobies dominate kayak events is using faster motors then using the pedal drive in place of spot lock,

 

I’m going to keep an eye on how these new Bonafides are rigged and what kind of speed they are getting. From the looks of them, even with the same motor I don’t think they will be nearly as fast as the Hobies. I think they will be faster than the AP but slower than the Hobie. Even though I like the setup, storage, and balance it may not be enough to get me to make the change.

 

If i was 20 years younger I’d go for it and probably own both kayaks.

[casts_by_fly]

4 hours ago, Susky River Rat said:

@casts_by_fly the quests do not have the heading sensor it is built into the unit head eliminating the puck. I generally do not use that feature because I will hit something in the river. Usually there is some kind of zig zag around something I have to do.  The newest generation of spot lock on the MKs  is much better than the second gen and light years ahead of the first gen. 

Ah.  When you said spot lock above, I just assumed you were on a minn kota.

 

I don't know what generation is on my autopilot.  It's essentially a 2021 powerdrive with a short shaft and custom mount.  I'm guessing maybe the second?  Either way it's pretty good.  It struggles a little if there is no wind/current to be stead against but then again I don't use it much in that scenario.  Jog is awesome for working down the bank.  When you have cover coming from all angles and want to hit it all, start at the start and fish what you can (outside edge, front edge, a couple casts back in).  Jog over 10' with 2 button pushes and work the next set of angles as the boat puts itself into the spot.

 

And of course every kayak anglers favorite spotlock feature- landing a fish.  No getting pulled into the cover as you reel one in.  

[gim]

4 hours ago, Koz said:

I’m hitting almost all of these lakes for the first time and with my work schedule I’m lucky to get in one day of pre-fishing. The more water I can cover pre-fishing - even if I’m just scoping and marking - the better.

 

I personally think this is contributing greatly to the failure.  No offense.  You need to put more time in pre fishing than "lucky to get one day in" before hand.  What you're trying to do is catch lighting in a bottle on the fly which rarely works in any consistency.  Especially on an unknown lake.

 

I understand the work and fishing life balance, but it seems like you're just setting yourself up to fail here with the lack of preparation.  I would devote at least TWO whole days pre fishing if I was in a bass boat.  If I was in a yak, more because it takes more time.

 

Just my 2 cents

[Fishingmickey]

3 minutes ago, gimruis said:

 

I personally think this is contributing greatly to the failure.  No offense.  You need to put more time in pre fishing than "lucky to get one day in" before hand.  What you're trying to do is catch lighting in a bottle on the fly which rarely works in any consistency.  Especially on an unknown lake.

 

I understand the work and fishing life balance, but it seems like you're just setting yourself up to fail here with the lack of preparation.  I would devote at least TWO whole days pre fishing if I was in a bass boat.  If I was in a yak, more because it takes more time.

 

Just my 2 cents

I'm in the same boat as Koz is, Gimruis.  If you don't have the time to you can't advise that he needs to spend more time pre-fishing. It just isn't there.  So you spend your time in map study and try to get an idea for where to fish on Tourney day.

FM

[gim]

3 minutes ago, Fishingmickey said:

If you don't have the time to you can't advise that he needs to spend more time pre-fishing. It just isn't there. 

 

You can't expect consistent results without adequate preparation.  That's nothing but fool's gold.

 

Don't complain if you aren't willing or capable of putting in the time.  I would never even consider something like this without more preparation because all it does it set up up failure.

[Fishingmickey]

I'll refrain from comment...

[TOXIC]

I’ll be the first to admit, I am a late adapter for most of the “latest and greatest” innovations.  Partly because I’m cheap and partly because in order for me to consider it worthwhile, it has to make a BIG difference in my fishing.  I do not have FFS.  I have gen 1 Lowrance electronics.  HDS 8 up front and a 9 on the console.  I have down-scan and side scan.  Keep in mind, this is on a 21 ft bassboat but there’s really no difference in my mind to a kayak except I can move farther, quicker.  Once I’m fishing it’s all the same.  What I have sprung for in addition to my graphs are power poles.  Fishing in St Clair and local lakes/rivers have made them invaluable.  I don’t have the newest, single pump, Bluetooth version.  I have the original models with old fashioned stomp switches up front and a toggle on the dash.  You can get micro anchors for yaks.  Second big upgrade was to a Ghost trolling motor with spot lock.  My graphs are too old to take advantage of all the features like following a contour or depth, returning to a waypoint, etc., but I’m good with that.  I also sprung for the remote.  Spot lock has taken the place of drift socks and allows 100% better control in wind and current.  I fish tidal rivers and when the tide is ripping, to be able to hold a spot, fight a fish, retie as well as a 100 other reasons, spot lock is the real deal.  Did we do it before….yes we did, but the efficiency of spot lock has, without a doubt, increased my catches and made my time on the water much more enjoyable.  I would assume the same is true for a kayak similarly equipped. 

[TnRiver46]

14 hours ago, Susky River Rat said:

That was one event. You aren’t going to repeat that over and over again. This was the minority of events where the majority are not won that way.  Which he pretty much eluded too. Plus the every fish counts is also a different way of fishing than the 5 biggest. Generally the kayak events are 5 longest. 

On dale hollow and similar highland reservoirs, open water fish chasing shad miles and miles is the pattern and it’s all year long 

[JHoss]

I made the jump from kayak tournaments to jon boats a couple years ago and think some of the experiences associated with that could help here. I ran a NuCanoe Pursuit with a spot-lock equipped XI3 that ran betwen 4.5-5 mph wide open. My current TM on the Jon boat is a Fortrex, so no Spot Lock. I can say for me, that I value the speed over the spot lock and it sounds like OP does too. 

 

I am a power fisherman that likes to cover water, and once I embraced that, my performances improved. I used Course Lock far more frequently than I ever used Spot Lock as I was more effective hitting visible shoreline targets than trying to effectively fish offshore with a cheap graph. With foot steering, you could still steer and fish hands-free only needing to use one hand to adjust throttle occasionally. 

 

There are times where I 100% miss Spot Lock, but not nearly as much as I though I would. I imagine you could hold position fairly well with manual adjustments of your stern mount motor the same way I hold with the Fortrex. Eventually I will upgrade to a TM with spot lock, but that's not a huge priority at the moment. 

 

Like OP alluded to, most of the top anglers on the national level kayak trails seem to favor a stern mount over a bow mount for the ability to cover water. I still follow those trails to some degree and I routinely see folks talk about covering 10-20 miles a day in an event. That's just not really feasible with most bow mount rigs.

 

The biggest disadvantage I see with the stern mounts is that you have to spend most of your time seated in order to control speed and direction. I stood 95% of the time I was actively fishing in the kayak and think I would struggle to be as accurate and efficient sitting down. Maybe that's less of a concern to you.

 

Perhaps you should look at a faster hull design and more powerful bow mount. If I was getting 4.5-5 with a 55lb thrust in the Pursuit, I bet I could've rivaled stern mount speeds with an 80lb thrust and still kept the ability to spot lock.

 

 

[Susky River Rat]

10 hours ago, Koz said:

Let’s take a lake like Guntersville for example. The main lake is about 79 miles long and on tournament day a boat can traverse that with no problem.

If you do that in a bass boat going 70mph that’s over an hour one way.  You don’t run an hour to a spot without knowing the fish are there. 

 

11 hours ago, Koz said:

Anglers like Kristine Fischer regularly talk about covering 12-15 miles from the ramp finding fish. That’s two hours or less of travel time for her and 4-5 hours of travel time for me

She already knows where there is fish and going to them. 

 

11 hours ago, Koz said:

Tournament fishing is tournament fishing no matter what you are fishing out of.

Having a live weigh in vs having to have your picture submitted by a certain time is very different. 
 

@gimruis Hit the nail on the head. You don’t go to a tournament learning a lake the day of it. Sorry but, if you want to throw away your entry fee money you can pay pal me it. It’s very hard to compete with people who are putting in the time. I’m sorry if that’s a bitter pill to swallow. 
 

@casts_by_fly it is a minn kota terrova but the new quest series. 
 

@TnRiver46 that does make sense there but, also is than a pretty specific pattern to there. 

[Koz]

On 12/3/2024 at 9:41 AM, gimruis said:

 

I personally think this is contributing greatly to the failure.  No offense.  You need to put more time in pre fishing than "lucky to get one day in" before hand.  What you're trying to do is catch lighting in a bottle on the fly which rarely works in any consistency.  Especially on an unknown lake.

 

I understand the work and fishing life balance, but it seems like you're just setting yourself up to fail here with the lack of preparation.  I would devote at least TWO whole days pre fishing if I was in a bass boat.  If I was in a yak, more because it takes more time.

 

Just my 2 cents

Yes, not being able to pre fish for 4 or 5 days on a new lake is an absolute handicap. But I do have a job and have responsibilities. As a hotel GM, it’s not like there’s another person to fill my slot when I’m not there.

 

That being said, I do tournaments for the fun and the experience. I don’t fish nearly as much as most of the other anglers and I’m OK with that.

 

I do take the time to study charts and maps, look at Google Earth, and in some cases I can find info on patterns and locations for past BPT and Elite events. DNR websites and fishing guide websites also usually provide information.

 

As someone who power fishes, I’m usually on the move, sometimes to me detrimental. I have been working at staying put in prime locations, but I find it hard to sit in one place and wait for one good bite an hour.

 

I only fished 4 tournaments this year, but next year I plan to fish the full Bass Nation GA or SC tour depending upon where I’m living. The Bassmaster schedule drops next week and depending upon where they are I may fish one or more.

 

Sure, it would be nice to win, but with 200+ anglers at each event the odds are against everyone. Right now I’m in it to learn and have fun and meet some people. Tournament fishing in a kayak is not as easy as it looks. Even the BPT and Elite guys have commented on kayak tournaments being harder keying on the fact that it’s harder to cover water.

 

My gut feeling now is I will buy the XTR next year after I see how others are rigging them and seeing their lists of pros and cons. I’ll probably keep the AP as well, at least for a while. 

[gim]

2 hours ago, Koz said:

Tournament fishing in a kayak is not as easy as it looks.

 

I remember some of your earlier chronicles about basically getting no sleep, getting up at the wee early hours of the morning, and running on fumes for energy.

 

I didn't mean to be negative or dirragatory with my post about not doing enough pre-fishing.  I just think if you were able to do more of it, you would see better results.  I try to be as prepared as I can for competition.  Good luck with your future adventures, I enjoy reading them.

[Koz]

21 hours ago, gimruis said:

 

I remember some of your earlier chronicles about basically getting no sleep, getting up at the wee early hours of the morning, and running on fumes for energy.

 

I didn't mean to be negative or dirragatory with my post about not doing enough pre-fishing.  I just think if you were able to do more of it, you would see better results.  I try to be as prepared as I can for competition.  Good luck with your future adventures, I enjoy reading them.

We’re good, buddy. It’s a healthy discussion.

 

It stinks going into events blind, but with my job ai don’t have another choice.

 

I do have 6 weeks of vacation saved up, but it looks like I’m going to quit my job by January and take a job in a different state.

[5by3]

The best fishermen in my area who consistently win tournaments are the ones putting in the most time on the water. They don’t necessarily have the latest and greatest equipment on their boat/kayak, but they are in tune with the current status of the lake and location of fish because they fish A LOT. 
 

Can upgraded equipment make them more efficient? Yes absolutely. But they’re winning because they don’t have to show up blind the day of the tournament to find fish. 
 

Unfortunately with busy work/personal lives this isn’t always possible for everyone! 

[LrgmouthShad]

On 12/4/2024 at 12:55 PM, gimruis said:

I remember some of your earlier chronicles about basically getting no sleep, getting up at the wee early hours of the morning, and running on fumes for energy.

Shoot yeah, that’s pretty much how it went for me on my first one with Koz. Slept two hours after driving 3.5 hours once off of work. Respooling 5 rods that night. That’s not to mention all the prep work I put into it the week and days before. They are a hassle for sure. A stout energy drink kept me going through the tournament. 
 

[Susky River Rat]

I don’t think it’s a lack of dedication for @Koz or @LrgmouthShad. Anyone who runs on little sleep tongrt this done is dedicated.  I certainly would not but I run on 3-5 hours of sleep daily anyway.  You guys are doing stuff I would not do to fish these tournaments. Sadly the person who could fish there the whole week before plus has been there 15 times before will always have an edge.
 

 

[FryDog62]

19 hours ago, Koz said:

I do have 6 weeks of vacation saved up, but it looks like I’m going to quit my job by January and take a job in a different state.

Where to? 

[LrgmouthShad]

5 hours ago, Susky River Rat said:

Sadly the person who could fish there the whole week before plus has been there 15 times before will always have an edge.

The guy who won on Fork allegedly showed up and went fishing 🤷🏻‍♂️. No practice. There are some other factors that I believe matter more than just the amount of time you get to spend practicing on one body of water. We’ve seen locals get humbled by visiting pros all the time.
 

The tournament scene is pretty cool and I plan to do more in the future, but I do not base my life around trying to find opportunities to tournament fish. A few things could manifest and I think I could be pretty competitive. Or, my life could take a different turn and I don’t think I’d have much chance. 

[RAM3139]

Interesting discussion.  I'll add a few thoughts:

 

- I think its pretty likely that at least some of the kayak tournaments are going to start allowing 2 motors in the next few years.  Kayak manufacturers are pushing things closer and closer to plastic bass boats, so I'm sure at least some tournaments will follow.  You could also sell the NK300 and buy an XI3 if you really missed the spotlock after a year or two.  Granted with probably losing a bit of money.

 

- I don't fish tournaments but still would favor speed over spot lock.  That said, I'd be realistic in your speed estimates with the new motor.  Id guess the XTR130 is probably in the same ballpark as the PA14.  I think for real tests that I've seen, that means 6.5mph or so at wide open throttle, and probably under 6 if you want the battery to last all day.  Still faster than the AP by quite a bit, but I don't think 8+mph is reasonable to expect.

[Koz]

9 hours ago, FryDog62 said:

Where to? 

Well, I'm entertaining a new job in Charleston, SC and that would wipe out my vacation time. But where I'm looking at living I will be only 40 minutes away from Lake Marion and Lake Moultrie, better known as Santee Cooper Lakes.

 

I heard there's some pretty good bass fishing there 😀

5 hours ago, LrgmouthShad said:

The guy who won on Fork allegedly showed up and went fishing 🤷🏻‍♂️. No practice. There are some other factors that I believe matter more than just the amount of time you get to spend practicing on one body of water. We’ve seen locals get humbled by visiting pros all the time.
 

The tournament scene is pretty cool and I plan to do more in the future, but I do not base my life around trying to find opportunities to tournament fish. A few things could manifest and I think I could be pretty competitive. Or, my life could take a different turn and I don’t think I’d have much chance. 

But he had fished there before and saw a video of someone pre-fishing and catching them and he knew exactly where that was. He was a Texas angler and familiar with the lake.

 

He did say he caught 40+ fish on the day, although a lot of them were under the limit. Again, when you consider less than 300 fish caught with 173 anglers out there, it was brutal fishing. At lea$t you made $omething happen out there!

5 hours ago, RAM3139 said:

- I think its pretty likely that at least some of the kayak tournaments are going to start allowing 2 motors in the next few years. 

 

Bass master has said they will not consider it because of the safety issue. If they did, Steve Owens (TD) said the would have to inspect every kayak to make sure it was seaworthy. They don't have the time and resources to do that. He also stated he doesn't want to take on that safety responsibility.