New concept?

[MN Fisher]

5 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

they have to be 14” or 15” depending on where you’re at

Is that a regulated thing in the rules, Russ, or just personal observation.

 

We don't have size limits or slots on bass here - you can keep 10" or 20"....doesn't matter according to the rules.

 

We're just limited to 6 total in possession - which is livewell PLUS freezer...if you got 3 at home in the freezer, you're limited to 3 keepers on your outing.

[J Francho]

How would they enforce that rule?

[MN Fisher]

It's basically the honor system, John...and most people here are honorable enough to follow it.

[gim]

41 minutes ago, J Francho said:

How would they enforce that rule?

 

They can check. your residence without probably cause.  Although certainly unlikely to happen because there just aren't very many game/fish officers out there.  I haven't run into one in nearly 30 years of hunting and fishing here yet.

 

Luckily, most anglers here do not target bass for food.  It's pretty far down the totem pole because the sacred walleye is at the top.  And then panfish and trout.  Northern pike are the species that really needs to be harvested more here.  They are abundant, easy to catch, and the daily bag limit is 10 in most of the state.

 

I'm generally ok with a few smaller sized bass being harvested, although I am not much of a fish eater myself.  I think freshwater fish in general has very little natural taste to it which is why people have to roll it in batter/breading, deep fry it, and then dip it in tartar sauce for flavor.

44 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

We don't have size limits or slots on bass here - you can keep 10" or 20"....doesn't matter according to the rules.

 

A few lakes do have special regs for bass.  One example in particular is Mille Lacs which only allows the harvest of smallmouth under 17 inches.  For many years it used to be only 1 smallmouth over 21 inches.  That strict rule is often credited for establishing the lake a trophy caliber smallmouth fishery.

[TnRiver46]

9 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

Is that a regulated thing in the rules, Russ, or just personal observation.

 

We don't have size limits or slots on bass here - you can keep 10" or 20"....doesn't matter according to the rules.

 

We're just limited to 6 total in possession - which is livewell PLUS freezer...if you got 3 at home in the freezer, you're limited to 3 keepers on your outing.

Regulations specific for each body of water. I would love to eat 12” bass but it’s illegal in almost every reservoir 

[Swamp Girl]

39 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Regulations specific for each body of water. I would love to eat 12” bass but it’s illegal in almost every reservoir 

 

At my pond, 12" bass are rare, maybe 2% of my catch. If you ever come fish it, you'll have to settle for 15 and 16-inchers in your skillet. 

[Pat Brown]

I'm completely sold on selective harvest for trophy bass.  Plenty of hours of very deep discussion with fisheries biologists and pond management experts and Texas parks and wild life and share lunker program scientists - it's much much better to keep small and unhealthy looking bass every so often than release every fish - plain and simple.

 

Reduce competition - make the bigger ones bigger and healthier and give the genetically superior rising generation a chance to reach their potential.  It's basic agricultural practices applied to small bodies of water.

 

It's gardening.  You have to remove weeds or you will choke the flowers.

 

Keep every catfish/pike/sunfish/crappie you EVER catch also.

 

Catch and release was a business move designed to improve the optics of BASS in the 70s during its infancy and ultimately has proven to be bad for fisherman and for fish.  It's time to move on - practice catch and release of THE BIG ONES - and keep some small ones every year to build a better future for our kids!

[gim]

@Pat Brown I think the term you might be looking for here is "carrying capacity."  Each body of water has a specific amount of life it can support based on size, structure, availability of food, and the type of food.

 

The comparison to a garden or a lawn is pretty good.  They need sunlight, water, and nutrients.  If there's weeds, they use those too instead of grass, plants, or vegetables.  That's why farmers treat their corn fields and bean fields with herbicides.

[Pat Brown]

Just now, gimruis said:

@Pat Brown I think the term you might be looking for here is "carrying capacity."  Each body of water has a specific amount of life it can support based on size, structure, availability of food, and the type of food.

That's exactly the term I was dancing around and forgetting 😂😂😂👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

 

Basically you gotta make room once carrying capacity has been reached - which for lakes that are not new anymore is NOW!  Your lake is at carrying capacity if you are reading this and live in the US in 2024.  Nobody keeps ANYTHING compared to what is necessary to help bass grow bigger.

 

Let's get to work folks.

[gim]

7 minutes ago, Pat Brown said:

Nobody keeps ANYTHING compared to what is necessary to help bass grow bigger.

 

Bear in mind that different parts of the country have different types of lakes, rivers, forage, etc.

 

Just because there may be a problem in NC doesn't mean the same problem exists in NY, CA, or WI.  That's the worst part about this forum, we're a countrywide (and international) group of anglers and there is no one size that fits all.

[Pat Brown]

11 minutes ago, gimruis said:

 

Bear in mind that different parts of the country have different types of lakes, rivers, forage, etc.

 

Just because there may be a problem in NC doesn't mean the same problem exists in NY, CA, or WI.  That's the worst part about this forum, we're a countrywide (and international) group of anglers and there is no one size that fits all.

 

 

Fair enough - there are small ponds that I think are 'at risk' and I think the key is actually teaching people the value of respecting slot limits and size limits.

 

Release the big ones relative to your body of water per your states regulations etc

 

I was more just expressing a potential generic framework for this as applied to my paradigm - yes - but I hope each person can and will extrapolate the valuable information and scale the ideology to their unique circumstances - and always follow your states rules and regulations and laws for fishing!

[softwateronly]

Regional diversity is fantastic for learning.  Growing up in Chicago and fishing the midwest, my entire life, bucket boys have meant 2 things at the same time; kids drumming on 5 gallon buckets for cash and fisherman that threw everything they caught in the bucket regardless of size or regulations.  Food fishing is most definitely the norm for the generation older than me out here, my solidly middle age generation is probably a healthy mix of C&R and table fare, I don't know enough about the younger generation though I suspect they lean more toward C&R.  

Ancedotally, I feel like the last 30 years of fishing in the midwest has improved.  First, industrial clean up of our water is the number one fix.  Second, even with population increase and increased development of land and waterfront, most fisheries seem currently balanced and the generational differences in harvest and C&R probably play more of a role than I was aware of or willing to admit.  Let's hope a balanced view of and execution of carrying capacity informs our laws and that we follow them.  Personally, that means more keeping for me in the future.

 

scott

[Team9nine]

1 hour ago, Pat Brown said:

and always follow your states rules and regulations and laws for fishing!

And therein lies the biggest obstacle to this concept actually working, because the goal among most all fisheries departments across the country is not to produce trophy fisheries, but instead, to maximize sustainable harvest and yield. Outside of Oklahoma’s new bass regulation and a handful of specific waters in certain states, minimum length limits are the rule and probably always will be. There is very little desire on the part of state fisheries to create trophy focused waters.

 

Additionally, once you get above a certain sized body of water, your ability to control harvest and enforce regulations is highly diminished, and increasingly cost prohibitive, and so subsequently, your desired outcome will likely fail.

[Fried Lemons]

A few of the lakes I fish produce trophies but most anglers don’t like these lakes because catch rates are low. Those big fish don’t bite often and those small fish that provide the bulk of the action anglers want are not that plentiful. I even get sick of these lakes sometimes because I can go weeks without a single bite.

 

If widespread harvest became the norm again I would expect more of our lakes to fish this way. 

[Catt]

34 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

There is very little desire on the part of state fisheries to create trophy focused waters

 

Texas's ShareLunker Program is the exception. Every body of water in the state is man-made & stocked by the ShareLunker Program. Some are maintained for all around pleasure fishing, some are maintained for tournament fishing, some are maintained for trophy fishing.

 

For trophy bass genetics is first consideration, if the genetics are not the rest doesn't matter. 

[J Francho]

@gimruis I get that, but what are they going to find? Unrecognizable fillets in your freezer. In order for laws to be effective, they need to be enforceable. 

[Catt]

Genetics matter 😉

 

https://texasoutdoordigest.com/fishing/freshwater/lake-naconiche-record-bass-is-descendant-of-falcon-reservoir-sharelunker/

[WRB]

Do you know why Orville Ball introduced Florida LMB in to San Diego CA lakes?

It wasn’t to start giant LMB populations, it was to increase the average size LMB anglers caught per man hour to around 3 lbs. In this regard to the program failed, the FLMB proved to more difficult to catch dropping the fish per man rate.

What did happen is history the FLMB grew bigger faster then Northern LMB in CA lakes starting the giant bass boom.

Genetics matter!

About the same time period C & R took off and fishing bass for food nearly stopped.

Over population is a problem in smaller lakes along with over harvesting big bass that didn’t get released.

Big bass need lots of high protein food to grow to become giants. This was proven beyond a doubt at lake Casitas when stocking Rainbow trout was stopped abruptly the Castias big bass population crashed because the prey was gone. 

Nothing else changed at Casitas but big bass that relied on a trout food starved without the planted trout.

A new generation of LMB at Casitas is returning that grew up eating a variety of prey natural to the lake, not giants yet but they have the genetics we will see soon.

Castiac the problem is Stripe bass accidentally introduced out competing LMB in a small environment proving the C & R theory vs prey source. 

Can’t see Castiac returning to produce giants until the Stripers are removed and that isn’t going to happen,

I can’t see a new generation of bass anglers becoming catch and harvest any time soon!

Tom

[gim]

42 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Unrecognizable fillets in your freezer.

 

Ours are required to have patch of skin/scales on the filet for ID.

[F14A-B]

Credit should be ultimately given to Ray Scott of BASS.. in the early days the limit was 10 lmb, couple that with fish dead on a stringer and it became a bad look.. they shifted to 5 alive and most sportsman agreed. After all, most everyone wanting to harvest fish are not targeting lmb.. but rather panfish or walleye, sauger . 
 

Personally pan fried bluegill is pretty good 😆

[WRB]

I am an original B.A.S.S. Life Member and not a fan of Ray Scott! Ray’s original blind draw tournament concept was great and a game changer but to give Ray any creat for C& R is a mistake IMO.

The Original limits were whatever the State regulation was, most were 15 some were 10, the 5 bass limit was do to livewell capacity.

Before C& R was forced on B.A.S.S. church fish fries after the derbies was popular, Ray believed fishing couldn’t over harvest the lakes. It was public outcry that forced the change.

Tom

[TnRiver46]

9 hours ago, Swamp Girl said:

 

At my pond, 12" bass are rare, maybe 2% of my catch. If you ever come fish it, you'll have to settle for 15 and 16-inchers in your skillet. 

Wouldn’t that be nice! 

[Dan N]

One of the lakes I fish here in Wisconsin, took the size limit off bass this year because it is full of too many small bass. 
while fishing there early summer this year , 2 different locals requested to keep them all. 
I did keep 5, 10-12” and they were delicious.