Treble Hook Sizes and Strengths

[DEPS_250]

I have been having issues with some of my treble hooks bending out. I have heard that upsizing your hooks will usually offer a little more strength.

 

In theory, will upgrading a smaller hook to a bigger hook offer more strength? For example, if I upgrade size 2 treble hooks to a size 1 or 1/0, will I be able to avoid hooks from bending and/or straightening out on bigger hard fighting fish? 

 

FYI, I am not referring to upgrading the hook strength from a 1x to a 2x, 3x, 4x etc. I know for a fact that you can avoid bending out hooks by buying and upgrading to stronger hooks. On the other hand, I wanted to know if it was possible to gain a little more strength by upgrading the actual hook size within the same hook model/series. 

[MickD]

I believe that going up in size will generally increase bending strength, but strength is not the only issue, and most likely greater gains in strength come from moving up an "X."  Also, going up may result in the front and rear hooks tangling on some lures.  Also, some lures are designed for a certain weight hook, so any changes may affect that.  But try out what you think is the best and see if it works.

[A-Jay]

 I haven’t tried them all, am currently using and feel good about recommending, Mustad KVD 1X strong 2x short triple grip, Gamakatsu Short Shank Magic Eye and Owner Short Shank ST-35’s; all EWG of course. Owner Hyper wire split rings are also a must need part of the upgrade IMO.

Also there's this . . . 

https://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/241684-treble-hook-replacement-~-one-man’s-theory-application/

A-Jay

[Dwight Hottle]

I think I’m going to quit posting answers because there are so many smart anglers on this site they have already covered the question completely before I can contribute. Well thought out answer @A-Jay.

[A-Jay]

18 minutes ago, Dwight Hottle said:

I think I’m going to quit posting answers because there are so many smart anglers on this site they have already covered the question completely before I can contribute. Well thought out answer @A-Jay.

Thank you very much @Dwight Hottle

The school of hard knocks teaches some very valuable lessons.

Almost as much as men like you.

A-Jay

 

 

[Aaron_H]

If you are already using quality hooks like @A-Jay suggested, and you are still bending out hooks, I would look elsewhere in your setup to see if there is a reason why your hooks are bending. Drag too tight, line such as braid not having enough give, rod too stiff, etc. can all lead to too much force being applied to the hooks.

[Pat Brown]

@Aaron_H - 1000%

 

I never have my drag super duper tight on any bait - even frogs - that's not the purpose of drag!  Also most people use too stiff of a rod for the job they're doing in bass fishing IMHO.

 

I lose more fish ripping holes in their mouths or breaking my line or when my rod is too stiff and unloads during a fight than I do letting my drag slip a bit during a fight.

 

Can't count the number of BIG fish I landed that made a run or two where they would have come off if my drag hadn't been a little loose.

 

Don't want to think about the number of BIG fish I lost that I might have landed had my gear been set up right for the task.

[LrgmouthShad]

4 hours ago, A-Jay said:

Mustad KVD 1X strong 2x short triple grip

 

4 hours ago, A-Jay said:

Owner Hyper wire split rings

I’m in the process of swapping all my crankbait split rings and hooks to these after bending out and nearly breaking a split ring in a tournament. The KVD triple grips I’ve used for a few years. They’ve been quite good to me 

[Team9nine]

7 hours ago, DEPS_250 said:

On the other hand, I wanted to know if it was possible to gain a little more strength by upgrading the actual hook size within the same hook model/series. 

Short answer is, it depends. Generally, the strength of the wire (hook) would be proportional to its cross-sectional area. So, if they had to make the larger hook sizes slightly thicker, then yes, they should be stronger even though they are the same material. If the larger hooks are the same diameter as the smaller hooks, then no, they probably wouldn’t be any stronger. Time to pull out the micrometer - lol

[A-Jay]

On 11/22/2024 at 8:57 AM, LrgmouthShad said:

 

I’m in the process of swapping all my crankbait split rings and hooks to these after bending out and nearly breaking a split ring in a tournament. The KVD triple grips I’ve used for a few years. They’ve been quite good to me 

That Gamakatsu short shank Magic eye is also a REALLY good choice.

It's a little thinner gage and might even have a tad better hook point.

Important part is seems just as stout as the Mustad offering.

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Gamakatsu_EWG_Treble_Short_Shank_Magic_Eye_6pk/descpage-GET.html

 

PSA- I would NOT recommend making a Bulk hook purchase of trebles on E-Bay.

Despite what might be described - it's NEVER the same as the original, 

and usually quite inferior.

Don't ask me how I know. 

A-Jay

[Alex from GA]

Everyone's answer is correct but team9 has it right.  I buy EagleClaw worm hooks and the 1/0 and 2/0 of the same number are different thickness.  If it's a forged hook all the better, it'll be stronger. 

[WRB]

I changed my treble hook lures to Owner Zowire STX treble hooks because of Stripe bass destroying standard treble hooks. 
STX 45 for lures with treble hooks size 4 & 2, STX 58 for larger sizes.

Tom

[DEPS_250]

On a side note, is it possible to compromise the integrity and/or lessen the strength of a hook point even further, if your repeatedly bending the same treble hook point back into alignment using pliers? 

 

I am assuming a treble hook point can only take an 'x' amount of bends and or torsional force before it would fail, right? I mean, if your repeatedly bending back the same point multiple times, it's bound to fail at a certain point, right? And by failing, I mean, having the point completely breaking off. 

[GReb]

Typically the larger size is also thicker. The picture below is the same Mustad in size 4 and size 2. There’s definitely a difference in wire thickness although it’s not crazy. 

[DEPS_250]

Y

25 minutes ago, GReb said:

Typically the larger size is also thicker. The picture below is the same Mustad in size 4 and size 2. There’s definitely a difference in wire thickness although it’s not crazy. 

Yeah, I can definitely see that the larger hook is a little thicker. It's not much though, I mean, we're probably talking about less than .50mm. On the other hand, I don't know how much more strength that would mean over the smaller hook though.

 

In the end though, I guess it's always better to just go with a stronger hook series/model, if you're really needing the extra strength. 

[Team9nine]

35 minutes ago, DEPS_250 said:

On a side note, is it possible to compromise the integrity and/or lessen the strength of a hook point even further, if your repeatedly bending the same treble hook point back into alignment using pliers? 

 

I am assuming a treble hook point can only take an 'x' amount of bends and or torsional force before it would fail, right? I mean, if your repeatedly bending back the same point multiple times, it's bound to fail at a certain point, right? And by failing, I mean, having the point completely breaking off. 

 

Yes. though IMO, the bigger concern is just the rebending of that whole hook arm (point, barb, and length of wire to the bend, sometimes referred to as the throat) after it gets bent out a time or two. What I've experienced is that once it is bent out and rebent into shape, that metal "softens" for lack of a better term, making it easier to get bent back out of shape the next time. This ends up happening most often on a solid hookset, and the point never gets to bury into the fish like it was originally designed. Thinner hooks are worse about this than thicker ones, but once I've had one bend out, I will only rebend it back once if in the heat of battle before replacing it, because it inevitably ends up causing me fish. Eventually though, if you kept rebending time and again, that whole barb end will completely break off. 

 

Specifically on just the hook point, if I roll one over, I replace it. You can sharpen dull hooks that still retain their shape a time or two, but a bent point isn't worth messing with because the wire is so thin in that spot, it's bound to cause you heartbreak when you least want it to.  

[AlabamaSpothunter]

51 minutes ago, DEPS_250 said:

On a side note, is it possible to compromise the integrity and/or lessen the strength of a hook point even further, if your repeatedly bending the same treble hook point back into alignment using pliers? 

 

I am assuming a treble hook point can only take an 'x' amount of bends and or torsional force before it would fail, right? I mean, if your repeatedly bending back the same point multiple times, it's bound to fail at a certain point, right? And by failing, I mean, having the point completely breaking off. 

It's no different than bending a paper clip back and forth, eventually metal fatigue takes it's toll and the metal will break.    Obviously a paper clip will succumb faster than a typical treble hook.

 

I'm not sure I understand why you'd want to upsize the hook size rather than switching out to a superior design and metal in the same size hook as before.  

 

It doesn't make much sense to put oversized hooks on a bait when you can just find an alternative hook design and material that will give you the benefits of a stronger hook without having bulky oversized hooks that may affect the action and amount of bites you get with said bait. 

 

Owner Zo Wire STX 38s in the same size as the OEM hooks would be my recommendation.     They're still relatively finessey yet way more robust than traditional OEM hooks, and I've yet to find a stickier treble hook than them as well.  

[T-Billy]

3 hours ago, A-Jay said:

PSA- I would NOT recommend making a Bulk hook purchase of trebles on E-Bay.

Despite what might be described - it's NEVER the same as the original, 

and usually quite inferior.

Don't ask me how I know. 

A-Jay

I'll second that!!! They look good in the listing pics. They look like they were welded by a spider monkey on meth in person. 

On the other hand, the Dr. Fish hyper wire split rings I've bought on Amazon have proven themselves to be a quality option at a good price. 

[DEPS_250]

2 hours ago, WRB said:

I changed my treble hook lures to Owner Zowire STX treble hooks because of Stripe bass destroying standard treble hooks. 
STX 45 for lures with treble hooks size 4 & 2, STX 58 for larger sizes.

Tom

Yeah, I am seriously thinking about going with the Owner STX Zowire treble hooks. I have heard nothing but positive feedback and reviews on the Owner STX Zowire hooks. No negative reviews what so ever. With strength being its main selling point too.

 

I have also heard that it's pretty thin and light weight for its size and strength. Therefore, not really affecting the action of more sensitive baits like glide baits. Do you find this to be true and/or correct? 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

Owner Zo Wire treble hooks are absolute game changers!    

 

Few things have made as much of a difference in terms of landing fish for me as switching out OEM hooks on baits like a Rapala DT10 or Damiki Vault to STX 38s.   I'm talking dramatic differences.

 

The design and bend combined with an unmatched sharpness makes the STX 38 the perfect treble hook in my book.   

[T-Billy]

3 hours ago, WRB said:

I changed my treble hook lures to Owner Zowire STX treble hooks because of Stripe bass destroying standard treble hooks. 
STX 45 for lures with treble hooks size 4 & 2, STX 58 for larger sizes.

Tom

I became an owner fan over the course of this past summer. I'm running the standard 1x strong ST-36 in 1/0 and 2/0 on my 4" and 5" muskie cranks, and they're doing a great job for me. I've never had a fish open one up during a fight. They've bent a few when hung in the net, but at that point it doesn't matter. 

[DEPS_250]

The hook in question that I am having problems with, is the BKK Spear 21 SS.

 

I decided to grab some size 2's a few weeks ago to play around with. I am currently experimenting with the size 2 BKK Spear 21 SS on 3oz glide baits. My main setup for fishing 3oz glide baits...

• Megabass Orochi XX Leviathan _ 8' _ 20-40lb _ 2-8oz 
• Daiwa Tatula 300 
• 40LB Sufix 832 Mainline 
• 20LB Fluoro Leader [6-10' long depending on depth I want to fish]
• 15-20LB Mono Leader [6-10' long depending on depth I want to fish]
• I set my drag about 2/3 to 3/4 full depending on which type of leader and the length of leader I am currently using. 

The problem is...I am having the hooks bend out on SNAGS! I haven't even caught a fish on these hooks yet! I don't even lock my drag to FULL when dislodging my baits from snags and I am still bending out hooks! 

 

With that said, they definitely feel a 1/2 to almost a FULL strength weaker compared to my Owner Stinger STX-36's. Owner STX 36's are considered a 1X strong hook by Owner's strength rating. I don't bend out the Owner STX 36's running this exact rod, reel and line setup. The only time I bend out Owner STX-36's, is when I am snagged and have to completely LOCK DOWN my drag to FULL. 

 

I believe the BKK Spear 21 SS are a 1X strong. Don't quote me though. I don't see any strength rating for the BKK Spear 21 SS anywhere online. Product descriptions with online retailers are no help, since they don't list or describe what the strength rating is either. Even BKK's own website does not list or say what the strength rating is. 

 

With that said, I don't believe the BKK Spear 21 SS hooks are a 1X hook after bending out the hooks so easily. I think they are just a stock/standard run-of-the-mill strength. I think they were only meant for upgrading small conventional bass baits like crank baits, topwaters and jerk baits.

 

Also, I think an 8' 20-40lb rod and braid to leader setup is just OVERKILL for the BKK Spear 21 SS. I probably shouldn't be using this type of hook for an 8' 20-40lb rod, running braid to leader. I should probably down grade to a lighter power rod and no braid. On the other hand, this is the only rod I currently have available for fishing 3oz glide baits. I also prefer fishing braid to leader, since the braid is thinner and lets me pack more line onto my reel, therefore keeping my inches per turn fairly high after an above average length cast and therefore extending the strike zone and working time. 

 

The problem is...

• I LOVE the color of the BKK Spear 21 SS hooks! The matte gunmetal finish looks so STEALTHY! No other hook manufacturer makes a treble hook with this color. 
• I also LOVE the shape of the hook. It has the perfect amount of shank length and bend/throat gap for cigar/torpedo shaped glide baits.
• One ADVANTAGE to the weak hook - I easily get my baits back from snags! That is a lot of money saved when you're fishing with $100+ swimbaits. With stronger hooks that don't bend out, I usually lose expensive swimbaits to snags. It's a lot cheaper to replace a hook, than it is to replace a $100+ swimbait. 

I am all confused. I don't know what to do. Haha LOL. 

[DEPS_250]

The thing with the Owner Zowire's that I can't get over is the SHAPE and DESIGN on the bend.

 

The bend on the Owner Zowire's has that aggressive/acute upturned angle at the very bottom. That aggressive/acute upturned angle kind of looks COOL and makes the hook look more modern and 'techy/cyberpunk-ish'. Kind of similar to aggressive angles on a modern sports car.

 

On the other hand, it also just looks weird and kind of 'off' for guys like me, who prefer a traditional round bend. 

[WRB]

It’s called O’Shuaughessy bend (forged Spoat bend)  around for decades.

Tom 

[A-Jay]

On 11/22/2024 at 4:06 AM, DEPS_250 said:

I have been having issues with some of my treble hooks bending out. I have heard that upsizing your hooks will usually offer a little more strength.

 

 

22 hours ago, DEPS_250 said:

On a side note, is it possible to compromise the integrity and/or lessen the strength of a hook point even further, if your repeatedly bending the same treble hook point back into alignment using pliers? 

 

I am assuming a treble hook point can only take an 'x' amount of bends and or torsional force before it would fail, right? I mean, if your repeatedly bending back the same point multiple times, it's bound to fail at a certain point, right? And by failing, I mean, having the point completely breaking off. 

 

19 hours ago, DEPS_250 said:

The hook in question that I am having problems with, is the BKK Spear 21 SS.

 

I decided to grab some size 2's a few weeks ago to play around with. I am currently experimenting with the size 2 BKK Spear 21 SS on 3oz glide baits. My main setup for fishing 3oz glide baits...

• Megabass Orochi XX Leviathan _ 8' _ 20-40lb _ 2-8oz 
• Daiwa Tatula 300 
• 40LB Sufix 832 Mainline 
• 20LB Fluoro Leader [6-10' long depending on depth I want to fish]
• 15-20LB Mono Leader [6-10' long depending on depth I want to fish]
• I set my drag about 2/3 to 3/4 full depending on which type of leader and the length of leader I am currently using. 

The problem is...I am having the hooks bend out on SNAGS! I haven't even caught a fish on these hooks yet! I don't even lock my drag to FULL when dislodging my baits from snags and I am still bending out hooks! 

 

I don't bend out the Owner STX 36's running this exact rod, reel and line setup. The only time I bend out Owner STX-36's, is when I am snagged and have to completely LOCK DOWN my drag to FULL. 

 

I believe the BKK Spear 21 SS are a 1X strong. Don't quote me though. I don't see any strength rating for the BKK Spear 21 SS anywhere online. Product descriptions with online retailers are no help, since they don't list or describe what the strength rating is either. Even BKK's own website does not list or say what the strength rating is. 

 

With that said, I don't believe the BKK Spear 21 SS hooks are a 1X hook after bending out the hooks so easily. I think they are just a stock/standard run-of-the-mill strength. I think they were only meant for upgrading small conventional bass baits like crank baits, topwaters and jerk baits.

 

Also, I think an 8' 20-40lb rod and braid to leader setup is just OVERKILL for the BKK Spear 21 SS. I probably shouldn't be using this type of hook for an 8' 20-40lb rod, running braid to leader. I should probably down grade to a lighter power rod and no braid. On the other hand, this is the only rod I currently have available for fishing 3oz glide baits. I also prefer fishing braid to leader, since the braid is thinner and lets me pack more line onto my reel, therefore keeping my inches per turn fairly high after an above average length cast and therefore extending the strike zone and working time. 

 

The problem is...

• I LOVE the color of the BKK Spear 21 SS hooks! The matte gunmetal finish looks so STEALTHY! No other hook manufacturer makes a treble hook with this color. 
• I also LOVE the shape of the hook. It has the perfect amount of shank length and bend/throat gap for cigar/torpedo shaped glide baits.
• One ADVANTAGE to the weak hook - I easily get my baits back from snags! That is a lot of money saved when you're fishing with $100+ swimbaits. With stronger hooks that don't bend out, I usually lose expensive swimbaits to snags. It's a lot cheaper to replace a hook, than it is to replace a $100+ swimbait. 

I am all confused. I don't know what to do. Haha LOL. 

 

19 hours ago, DEPS_250 said:

The thing with the Owner Zowire's that I can't get over is the SHAPE and DESIGN on the bend.

 

The bend on the Owner Zowire's has that aggressive/acute upturned angle at the very bottom. That aggressive/acute upturned angle kind of looks COOL and makes the hook look more modern and 'techy/cyberpunk-ish'. Kind of similar to aggressive angles on a modern sports car.

 

On the other hand, it also just looks weird and kind of 'off' for guys like me, who prefer a traditional round bend. 

 

Some how I missed this on my initial read of this thread.

Seems you're disappointed that you are losing baits on SNAGS ?

Nowhere does it mention that you've lost any BIG fish because of your treble hook selection. 

 I get it, but getting snagged is Operator error almost every time.

While it happens, there are several ways to mitigate that deal or at the very least,

reduce them quite a bit.

Perhaps stop fishing expensive baits "blindly".

  Use something that will come through the cover first,

while at the same time telling you what's down there if you're not sure. 

And if you want or need to fish around or close to hard cover with a $$$ bait,

become a better caster.

Blaming the hooks is looking at the symptoms and not the problem.

Clearly there's a bait going into a place it's not designed to go.

Perhaps Fix that first before you go down the hook rabbit hole.

 

I with @Team9nine Bending hooks back into shape

is a big fish loss waiting to happen. 

Just replace it. 

 

Finally, as I mentioned about, I use EWG trebles exclusively.

Every Plus size SMB posted on this site the last several years,

that ate a hard bait, had at least one EWG treble in it's face as it slid into my net.

Just Saying

Good Luck.

A-Jay